DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2016 NFL Season 2016 NFL Draft Mock Drafts part 3

Quarterback mechanics are one of the most highly debated aspects among NFL scouts and experts because they come in many different forms, few of which seem to be ideal. Whether it’s an old school sidearm style that Rich Gannon had, Tom Brady’s over-the-top delivery or Philip Rivers’ shot-put pass, the passers have shown that they can get to the ball out to their intended target with success. Neither of these are incorrect, but if they were deemed as such, could they be altered?

Some believe the mechanics of a quarterback can be altered, while others don’t. Because of this, I asked former NFL personnel man turned writer for RealGM.com Jeff Risdon if mechanics can indeed be altered:

"I believe mechanics above the waist can be fixed but it takes time and dedication," Risdon stated. "I think it's a delicate balancing act to try and do anything major (like Tim Tebow) but changing release points, follow through, back shoulder rotation, even how the football is held are all tweaks that can absolutely be done."

He furthered comment: “You don't want to change an unconventional throwing motion that clearly works, like Philip Rivers or Kerry Collins, but cleaning up the little intricacies can still be very effective. It's remarkable how something as simple as holding the ball further back on the laces can impact accuracy. Footwork and waist/hips are more important but the kind of stuff that George Whitfield did with Cam Newton, altering his elbow angle and teaching him a consistent follow through and shoulder rotation can make a big difference."

I also contacted NFL Films football guru Greg Cosell about the possibility of altering the mechanics of a quarterback and he immediately said “yes”.

Cosell expanded on his answer by stating that “anything that is mechanical can be altered, anything that is a function of a movement can be altered. There are four parts to throwing the football: legs, hips, shoulders and arm, which comes along for the ride when the others are done right.”

McCarthy-isms
Although there are many that don’t share Risdon and Cosell’s sentiments, Green Bay Packers head coach Mike McCarthy does. McCarthy has run a "quarterback school" since 1993 that charts "quarterbacks in five footwork drills that rate agility and movement," and focuses on "hand-eye coordination, finger dexterity, mechanics," according to Greg Bishop of The New York Times.

McCarthy’s quarterback school paid off in a big way for signal caller Aaron Rodgers, who came into the league with quirky mechanics taught by the University of California’s infamous (in NFL circles) head coach Jeff Tedford and has since become arguably the league’s best quarterback.

Rodgers held the ball next to his ear when he was in a pre-pass triangle set at California. The mechanics appeared efficient at the time because he was able to get the ball out quickly in the Golden Bears short passing game, but he struggled throwing deep.

His throwing motion led to him throwing outside of his frame, which is not ideal and "stresses the shoulder" as quarterback guru George Whitfield Jr. says, and his footwork also suffered as he was not able to get proper timing nor transfer weight with any consistency. Rodgers explained this in an interview with ESPN last year:

"When I first got into the league, I held the ball really high. That was the standard in college, and it messed up my timing a bit -- the draw, bringing it back, then the release... You’re taught to get back as deep as you can, but you can never throw the ball out on time when you do that."

Mechanical Changes Click For Rodgers
Under the tutelage of head coach McCarthy and quarterbacks coach Tom Clements, Rodgers pre-pass triangle set came down to between his numbers, consequently his motion became quicker, his power increased (also because of his cleaner footwork) and his timing improved. Now, Rodgers puts up video game numbers as he knifes through the heart of defenses with otherworldly throws.

"In Aaron Rodgers' particular situation, he had a very high ball carriage which I felt there was a stiffness to the way he carried the ball," McCarthy told our Adam Caplan during the 2010 NFL Scouting combine, "it wasn't as natural because he is a very good athlete and it's something you didn't see in my opinion in his earlier days, how good of an athlete he was and I think it's something we've adjusted and he's very natural with it. Every quarterback that I've ever coached, you're always looking to improve their mechanics."

Furthermore, as Risdon noted, mechanics may be able to be fixed or altered but it takes “time,” which is exactly what Rodgers had as he honed his skills for three seasons while legend Brett Favre played.

In contrast, my colleague Lance Zierlein noted in a recent conversation that former Houston Texans quarterback David Carr didn’t have the same success when offensive coordinator Chris Palmer attempted to alter his release point. Carr played during this time, which was his only choice for the expansion Houston Texans, and his career ultimately ended in disaster as he ended up being a bust after taking a significant amount of beating behind a porous offensive line and never improving his mechanics.

Rodgers and Carr’s situations were entirely different, but they also help paint the picture of the possibility of altering mechanics. Mechanics can be altered by raising the elbow above the shoulder, making sure there is full extension and follow through after the release and then correcting footwork by stepping through the throw, bending at the knee of the lead foot and rotating the hips, so power is generated from the lower body opposed to the upper body as seen with Buffalo Bills quarterback Ryan Fitzpatrick.

There are many avenues which coaches can take to improve a quarterback’s mechanics, which takes time and repetitions, but the biggest issue that they run into is one they can’t control: their quarterback’s reaction when the bullets are flying.

In most cases, quarterbacks will revert to their natural form when they are in pressure-filled situations, which is why the debate over mechanics will forever live despite the success of the Packers’ Rodgers. For every Aaron Rodgers, there is a Tim Tebow: a passer whose mechanics were altered temporarily opposed to permanently, resulting in a reversion to their natural and improper form once defenders invaded the quarterbacks comfort area.

http://thesidelineview.com/columns/nfl/can-quarterbacks-mechanics-be-altered

Yeah... that story seems a little off. She was out at a bar with him and went back to his place at 2:30. Not saying it couldn't have been rape, but I mean... did she really go back to his place from a bar at 2:30 not expecting to have sex? What were they going to do? Netflix and chill?

Yeah no kidding. That's not what I was saying. What I was wondering was why she went to his apartment with him at 2:30 leaving the bar. Did she really not think they were going to have sex?

It was a statement cause Stanford has a rep as a QB factory

RCB-Apple/Gilbert/T.Williams

Besides Elway and Luck, who else have they been churning out?



Eli Apple? Because I doubt he'll be there at #32.

Yeah, the best place to keep that football is with 2 hands slightly above your chest until you know exactly where you are throwing it. Decide before you start your motion.


There are a few different motions from there. But in all of them the next step is a high back elbow. That is what Hogan needs the most to fix his motion. He has what I call a "J-style" motion where he turns the point of the ball away from him. Plenty of QB's use that motion (Manning and Brees to name a couple). The "J style" part comes from the other point of the ball (pointed at his ear) making a small letter J as he lifts his elbow. (He is missing that part and the ball strays very far from where it should be.) This and knowing ahead of time where the ball is going should keep him from loading up like in his Wikipedia picture


and shortening his motion while still protecting the ball.

I'd like this guys elbow to be a little higher, but this picture gives you a good idea of the motion at least in steps 4-7



If you start out with the ball high, keep both hands on it till you're ready to throw, and maintain that high back elbow while keeping the back point of the ball pointed at your ear, you'll avoid the ball from being that far away from your body like in Hogan's Wikipedia Pick. Your delivery will be much much more compact.

If we draft a NT in the top 100 I will be furious. The best 3-4 NT in the NFL was available in FA and we sat on our big pile of money. It better be because we believe in Shelton.

I have only coached football for a couple of years, but I had a couple of guys who were struggling with accuracy and having the ball swatted at the LOS. So although I have only coached a couple of years of football, I have coached baseball and softball for more than 20 years. With that said I taught my guys the same as I taught my baseball players, to bring the ball by the ear hole, of course just the ear for a baseball player .

In addition to that I taught them that the ball goes were there front leg is pointed. In other words if you bring the ball by the ear hole and step towards the receiver, just as a pitcher does towards the plate you get more accuracy, more velocity, and in football less balls batted down.

Besides Elway and Luck, who else have they been churning out?



Eli Apple? Because I doubt he'll be there at #32.

Okay, draw an X on a tree, the side of the house, whatever. Walk about 10 to 20 yards away. Draw a horizontal line and place your feet on that line. Try and hit the target w/a ball. Pay attention to your hip turn. Did they rotate? What about your shoulder turn? Did you throw over the top or were you forced to extend your elbow and move the ball away from your ear?

Now, try throwing w/your front foot at different angles. Note the hip and shoulder turn while monitoring your accuracy. Conclude by throwing w/your front foot pointed directly at your target while maintaining an athletic stance that is balanced. Can you feel the difference in your hip turn? Your shoulder rotation? Was your accuracy improved?

You can try one more. Draw a picture of my face on something you can punch. Write "Vers" across the top. Imagine smashing my face in. Punch my face as hard as you can from the aforementioned stances. How did your foot placement affect your power?

Let me know if it felt good doing the latter exercise.

Oh............I don't do mock drafts. I have never even attempted one. I rarely read them. Too many variables for my mathematical mind. Like say you take a WR w/the 32nd pick, but that guy is long gone. That messes up the entire mock. The possibilities are almost endless and it boggles my mind. I prefer just evaluating the players.

what site are you guys drafting on?