DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... The Presidential Primaries VIII

And he beat her 55.7% to 44.3% ??????????????????? That math sure seems off to me. 11+ points must have been her handicap!

The Clinton Machine will not be denied. When you win, you win.
When you lose, you win.

She must have some super delegates from beyond the grave!!!!

What do we do about corporations, giant entities, who exploit tax code to pay zero taxes? Or those who won't reinvest in America, and decide to keep it locked up in havens for their own "status".

I don't have a problem with closing loopholes. They can pay the same taxes as everyone else. I do have a problem with them jacking up the tax brackets and income tax levels.

Middle class taxes may go up a little, but in return you receive free college education for anyone, decent healthcare (many worldwide "socialized" systems get highly rated...research it), and a decent chance to jump social classes.

Give corporations a reason to bring back, or to keep, money here.

They aren't "exploiting" the tax code. They are abiding by it and doing what they can, legally, to keep more of what they make.

Now, if that's a problem, talk to congress. You know, the entity that writes tax laws.

Tax them more? Sounds great. Looks great on paper. In reality, there will be an "out" for them anyway.

We need serious tax reform, combined with less waste from our gov't. Federal, state, and local. They don't need more money - they need to spend less money, and become more efficient.

Hell, if you're in a position where all you need to do is say "I need more money", that's what you'll do.

And if you don't get the money, you say "fine, we won't do this, and we won't do that".

Again, the city of Toledo is a prime example of that. They bought equipment to repave roads. But now they say they don't have the money to repave roads. They wanted to raise the income tax to repave roads. But get this, the tax increase wasn't going entirely to repaving. 25% of the increase to repave roads was to go some place else.

I'll trust a gov't. agency about as soon as I'll trust me to do open heart surgery on a deer. I guarantee I can take the heart out, but what I can't do is fix it. So, I'll need more money.

9% increase in taxes for the middle class and the poor isn't a little.

If you read the articles I posted, Bernie's plan is about 1 trillion dollars short of paying for a single payer system. He would need to raise taxes 9% + another 10-20% to pay for it.

30% tax increase for "Medicare for all" what a joke. Bend over and I'll diagnose you.

No Thanks.

And I don't know what "jumping social classes" means. Maybe some liberals wet dream.

After Bernie destroys America there won't be any classes left except poor. All the rich people and companies will leave. The middle class will have their income taxed until downgraded to poor.

The government will be left squeezing blood from a stone.

I've been to college. I've paid my tuition and repaid my loans. Will I get a refund?

I don't have any kids to go to college.

I have health insurance.

I am perfectly fine with my social class. I have no desire to move up or down.

So how am I anything but screwed?

What ever happened to working and investing your way up into the next social class?

Today it seems to be all about how government can give me a higher social class by taking other peoples money.

It's kind of ironic because the college kids complain that corporate America is greedy yet they feel entitled to others people's money to get ahead. Instead of working for it themselves. Is that not the epitome of greed.

It's hilarious to see all the old people acting like they had it all figured out when they were in college class

When the old people were in college we worked to pay our bill. We worked part time, we worked full time, we worked overtime, whatever it took. We didn't think other people should somehow pay our bill.

They also couldn't tell you which or how many roads would be repaved, which were a priority or a schedule.

Youngstown just announced some program for trash collection, where they are going to buy their own trucks, staff them, and supposedly save money over re-upping with Waste Management.

I can't wait for the tax hike 2 years from now when it doesn't work exactly as planned.

In my city, all garbage cans are provided by the city, nothing else will be collected.

My garbage man broke my city provided garbage can and now won't replace it. I am on "a list to receive one". Meanwhile garbage bags are piling up in my garage. Gonna take them to small claims court if they don't provide a functional garbage can soon.

I'm not disagreeing with you. If they want to operate like a business, then so be it. However, they're going to be treated like one.

Bernie's college plan means many of my students, contrary to popular belief, possess the opportunity to head to college. No kid, regardless of socieconomics, receives a free ride because they're "poor". You can't even fathom the expense for one of my students to leave the village to attend college.

So be it if more of my paycheck goes towards taxes; I know that money will get used to pay for healthcare that is needed, a child will receive w college education to get them in the world, and ultimately fix the upside down social mobility of our nation.

College also cost a third or so of what it does today when inflation adjusted. The expense rate is quickly becoming such that only the upper class will be able to attend university. This is not a winnable scenario for our economy. I worked through college at Sears in order to fund myself. I had no family support and had to do it on my own. I find it very unlikely I'd be able to attend college if I was 18 years old today. With help from my college education, I command a high salary and a high quality of life for me and my family.

The cost factor is definitely a multi-headed snake of a problem. Universities don't spend any of their back funds. Harvard hasn't touched their endowment in a long time and it's worth almost 38 billion. Our highest paid state employee is a football coach. States have also been slashing their education budgets in recent decades, and with more aggression in the last decade. This is why the college education bill is much higher. I'm glad I graduated in 2004, had I waited 5 years my student loans would likely be more than double what I ended up paying back. I don't know how anyone could look at our education today and think it's fine, ESPECIALLY when you contrast with the past. We need engineers, accountants, RNs, etc and these jobs are in very high demand and command very high salary. These jobs require the middle class to have access to college education. This access is quickly drying up as education costs skyrocket.

We need to work on solutions to this problem of college funding. I don't think any candidate has a great solution to this yet... but to assume education is fine is the wrong approach.

Maybe that's the goal, honestly. Just look at our lack of social mobility, the ability to jump to another social class, in our country. Quite laughable for the "land of opportunity!", honestly.

I'll just let this graph speak for itself. Countries where many decry of "socialism" end up on the pretty side of this graph.

It's cute you have a fan club who agrees with you.

But you didn't respond to what I said. I said that you're acting like you had it all figured out at that age.

So it's good to know that Eve, Tulsa, 40, and Columbus all had it figured out when they were 18.

I must now always yield to you guys post, because you guys had life completely figured out, and everything was set in stone when you were 18 year old during college.

Congrats

Economists Say Millennials Should Consider Careers In Trades

"You can get a particular skill in a particular field and make more than a college graduate," he says. For example, he says the average electrician makes $5,000 a year more than the average college graduate. And the country is going to need a lot more skilled tradespeople.

"The baby-boom workers are retiring and leaving lots of openings for millennials," Carnevale says. He says there are 600,000 jobs for electricians in the country today, and about half of those will open up over the next decade. Carnevale says it is a big opportunity for that millennial generation born between 1980 and 2000.

With so many boomers retiring from the trades, the U.S. is going to need a lot more pipe-fitters, nuclear power plant operators, carpenters, welders, utility workers — the list is long. But the problem is not enough young people are getting that kind of training.

http://www.npr.org/2015/02/02/383335110/economists-say-millennials-should-consider-careers-in-trades

Generalize much?

Fine. Let's generalize. It was pretty simple to figure out if you wanted something it was going to be up to you to earn it, or marry it. I didn't have the legs for the latter.

Go to school and/or go to work, those were your options. I'm not sure what's difficult to figure out there? You started small and worked your way up to the bigger, nicer things like cars and houses.

I went to school and worked two jobs, it finally became too much for me to continue and I needed money so I quit school and went to work full time. Knowing I didn't have that degree I kept learning where I was and kept myself valuable, now 37 years later I'm still with my same company. I've reinvented myself several times to get up that ladder. No one handed me a damn thing nor did I expect anyone to. So simplistically, yes I had it all figured out but life is a process and you have to keep figuring it out.

The whiney assed children of today want it all now and want it handed to them. They need to get off their butts and get to work. It's their responsibility, no one else's and no one owes them a damn thing.

Like the commercial says, "we made money the old fashioned way, we earned it".

Yea... I don't buy that at all.

I doubt you had life figured out. Go to school or go to work is not having it figured out. I don't agree at all with that.

But keep glorifying your generation. I'll keep laughing at it.

What you buy or don't is not my concern. It's your life, enjoy your choices.

At 18 years of age I did have it figured out. I simply looked around me at those who I considered successful and those I considered failures.
I found that those who put their shoulder to the wheel and stayed focused on achieving their goals were mostly successful.
Those who made excuses for why they can't succeed, looked to live off others and lost focus of their goals, for the most part ended up failures.

I figured I wanted to be among the successful.

I'm now 60 and by golly I was right.

I wished you take your own advice instead of crying about the choices of my generation.

Who doesn't want to be successful?

Man what a dumb criteria to determine having it figured out. Congrats on wanting the same goal as everybody else.

But that isn't having life figured out.

But continue on thinking you're better than everybody else.

I wouldn't say I had it all figured out, not even close - hell, I was super immature and went out almost every night that I could in college. Luckily I was smart enough that I could skate by doing very little, but most of the guys I hung out with my Freshman year flunked out. I was not ready for the "real world" though what I had figured out is what I liked to do, and after the first year of working road construction to pay for my school (which I did for 4 years), what I most certainly did NOT want to do. That was a very generalized response Swish - I don't expect an 18 year old to have everything figured out, though I would hope they are smart enough to realize getting a degree in a useless area is a waste.

Wow, somebody who admits they didn't have it figured out.

I'm impressed.

I was beginning to think I was the only one of those board who was...I dunno, a normal kid at 18.

Cause your colleagues say they had eve thing figured out, everything mapped out.

Hell, I'm not sure I have it figured out now at 44!

Ok, so fail then. Lots have, lots will.

Everyone wants to be successful is a childish response from you since everyone wants to hit the lottery too.

You can choose to be Financially successful and build a successful career, it is within your power. Or not.

I still question who makes the decision what is useless and what isn't?

In an earlier post you mentioned "Poetry". Ok, well...it's been a while since I was at college but, I have seen several prospectus' and don't recall a BA in "Poetry". Maybe. Maybe not. To be fair I have never looked for "Poetry". But, even if there were I would think one would have to get their major in English with maybe their minor in Poetry? So, if one has an English degree is that useless? No, they may not go on to earn the same as an Acct., a Lawer, Medicine, Engineer, Robotics, Coding etc. but, they can still go on to teach K-12, College or "English as a Second Language". Is teaching a useless job?

Same with Art, Drama, Dance, Music, History etc. Actually, regarding Art there are many, many articles stating that the biggest job growth will be in the "Creative sector". As we continue to compete with China and India the one thing the West does have in our favor is our creativity and this will be used to our benefit. So, going on to art school to get a degree so one can move to NYC and try to make it as a painter isn't what most kids who get an art degree are thinking. But, I do agree that kids do not have to go on to some fancy, expensive private art college to get their BFA.

So, who *does* decide what is useless? If somebody is happy and comfortable and earning a sustainable family income (if they even have a family) do they have to do something like Computer Coding?

That said, I will admit that I have seen classes such as: "The music and influence of the Grateful Dead". Ok, now this is a useless credit. If somebody really wants to learn about the music and influence of the Dead there are plenty of books out there for one to read on their own without spending hundreds or more dollars to take a class like this. But, this is an extreme rather than the norm or an actual major.

I think what Columbus is saying, and I agree with, is that kids are getting degrees in something and expecting to get a job in something completely different.

For example, there's this chick I was in class with last semester who was getting an art history degree, and wanted to work in HR.

Uhhh... Not exactly the correct degree path for a goal like that.

People that are English majors, there are tons of career paths for them.

Also, from what I've seen, those who succeed in the creative arts field, a good portion of them don't even have formal training that much.

One thing kids need to understand is there's a difference between following your dreams, and spending 40k + on a degree that's gonna be practically useless in a typical job field.

Hell, you can follow your dreams, and it'll still be cheaper than what you paid for in that degree field.

I get my associates in business after this semester. But I changed my major to international relations, because what I want to do for my dream doesn't actually require a degree, but what I want a career to potentially be does.

I didn't have anything figured out at 18, I joined the military and served in the Navy. Most of my friends were going to college or taking factory jobs.

After the Navy, I started my own business, actually had several over the years. I have always been self employed and you can't be a loser and do that.

I figured it out later rather than sooner but had successes along the way. Then one day it all came together, the sum of my experiences and I finally had a great business and everything I wanted. Then I got the eye opening experience and watched helplessly as G.W.Bush's economic collapse ruined everything I had built over years in just a few months. My customers were losing their businesses right and left; but there was no bailout for us. However the crooks behind it all lost NOTHING.

I have despised the lies ever since. My eyes are open and I was raised to believe in the USA, the American Dream and that honest hard work and focus on your goal was the way to go... Then the powers that be sold us out, stole the dream, crushed people like us under their greed and still can't get enough... THEY WANT IT ALL.

Well they can't have it and if you defend them and stand with them, then you are the enemy too.

I think Swish summed up what I was saying pretty well. I am all for following your passions, but also realize said passion may not make a lot of money. If that is the case, don't complain about it is all that I am saying. Maybe you shouldn't go to a 30k per year liberal arts college if you are only going to take a job that caps out at 60k per year and then complain about it? Those are the types of things that irk me.

Me, I like money. I am motivated by it and am completely unashamed to admit to that. Others are motivated by helping others (which I do, but it isn't my motivation), having a large family, working a job that is jus 9 to 5, ect. Different things make different people happy and everyone should pursue the path that they get the most joy out of life achieving. If said path puts you into tremedous debt, don't expect me to bail you out.

I suffered through the same collapse of the financial system as you did. They got away with it. So did you lay down and die or have you picked yourself up and got on with it again?

I do agree with this. Unfortunately, however, it isn't just Liberal Arts colleges that cost 30k p/year (actually, I think they may be close to or above 50k). State Universities are nearly 30k for in-state tuition. This includes books, accommodation etc. I am also basing that on University of Oregon & Oregon State, which come in around the mid/high 20's. Not sure about Ohio State. Thus why Sanders' call for affordable education resonates loud and clear to me.

But, if a kid wants to study Photography, for example, I don't see it as "useless". There are plenty of jobs out there but, probably wont be the highest paying. For example, a good friend of mine is one of the main photographers for Nike. It may not satisfy him creatively, he has his own photography for that, but it pays his bills. But, I do agree they don't need to go to a 40k p/year private art college to learn about photography. A 4yr state univ. such as Portland State or Cleveland State etc. will give them the same training and probably the same contacts and cost 1/3 what the private art college will cost. The rest will be up to that kid's own drive, motivation and hustle to succeed.

Now, the private colleges have caught wind to this so they shower students with tens of thousands as a scholarship (carrot bait?) to try to persuade them. Still, not a bad position to be in because the kid can look at what the cost will be with scholarship included and have more options to choose what works best for them.

These days, I think all of the above works the same in most other job/career fields as it is a lot more competitive now than it ever has been. Mainly because our population has grown but also because our economy competes with the world and their best and brightest. IF a kid today wants to make it they have to be determined, be driven, hustle for the jobs (even low paying knowing it may help move up the ladder) and stay focused and committed to their goal.

Focus and commitment. Hmmm...I think our most recent QB draft pick is a prime example of somebody who came into their field entitled and expecting it to be easy and an instant success. No focus, no commitment and no hustle. Look where that got him. Still, I wouldn't paint his entire generation with one sweeping generalized brush stroke nor do I think it is fair to use the age old "back in my day" argument. That's too easy and has no clout. The world is different today, just as the world was different when the baby boomer generation were growing up compared to their parents generation (and so on and so on).

It's those people from the 60's and 70's that the older generation claimed would kill this country that are doing the complaining now. Take it with a grain of salt.