DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Browns Front Office...not ready for prime time...

Nothing truer has ever been said in the history of mankind.

Clifton Geathers DE Taken off IR, undisclosed
2/4 Issac Blakeney WR signed from Redskins
2/4 Montell Garner CB signed from Rams
2/4 Tobais Palmer WR signed from Bills
2/4 Al-Hajj Shabazz CB signed from Buccaneers
1/22 Dustin Vaughan QB signed from Bills
1/22 Ross Cockrell CB re-signed, One-year extension (through 2016)
1/20 Jacob Hagen S signed from Rams
1/20 Brian Mihalik DE signed from Eagles
1/20 Daryl Richardson RB signed from Browns
1/20 Ty Long K signed from Redskins
1/19 Ray Vinopal S signed from Cowboys

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/teams/transactions/PIT/pittsburgh-steelers

steelers retain some of their FA's but sign more than one FA from other teams...

declared FA

Terence Garvin LB declared free agent
3/9 Will Allen S declared free agent
3/9 Kelvin Beachum T declared free agent
3/9 Antwon Blake CB declared free agent
3/9 Brandon Boykin CB declared free agent
3/9 Mike Vick QB declared free agent
3/9 Bruce Gradkowski QB declared free agent
3/9 Will Johnson RB declared free agent
3/9 Doug Legursky G declared free agent
3/9 Steve McLendon DT declared free agent
3/9 Sean Spence LB declared free agent
3/9 Byron Stingily T declared free agent
3/9 Cam Thomas DE declared free agent
3/9 Jordan Todman RB declared free agent

to see all there moves go to link provided...my point is, is that they make a lot of moves. They keep who they think will help the team and cut those they don't think will contribute and sign FA.

we cut who we thought won't contribute and signed some who we thought will. and let some walk in FA...THE ONLY ONE I am concerned about it the Schwartz guy. But at the end of the day I won't cry because he gone. I shall sleep well.

1) It is a fact that spending money didn't help the Ravens, Cowboys, Eagles, Falcons, Saints, and Bills last year. It's also a fact that right now the Broncos and Jets don't have a starting QB and can't afford to get one.

2) You are the only one grading them. The season hasn't started yet.

3) Believe me I do know nobody is gonna stop you from expressing your views.

Over and over and over and over.

One thing you have to understand, mac: There is nothing that you can say or do that will stop the "positive" posters from getting on your case for discussing facts, rather than dreams.

I always put facts out there...just trying to help

1000 percent true. He drives me a little nuts, but don't question his loyalty to the Browns.

Since it is a new front office who has vowed to act in a certain manner, I do not question their goal. I question the value of the players being let go and their value to the team.

I am a bit unclear on what you are inferring. Will you elaborate a bit, please?

I can't speak for him, but I will give it my view. Each position has a value to a team as in a LT would have more value then say a center. At some point the value meets with the resources spent to keep a player, or the output of resource is greater then positional value.

I don't claim to know how we value players or positions but I am sure when they crunched the numbers, teams with far less output of money received play very much in line with the play we received from Mack.

I agree with your take on the bottom, but I'm not sure how that correlates to your evidence at the top.

The FA's they signed look like a bunch of camp bodies on vet minimum deals. I think all together they will make less money than any one of the big 4 free agents we lost.

I'd say the Steelers use FA to look for bargain discount type players and try to replace their departing FA's with players from within the organization.

I see the Steelers letting go/not overpaying Beachum similarly to our situation with Schwartz.

You can't pay everyone that wants (in some cases deserves) to be paid. You've got to be able to draft well and replace aging, high priced talent with young, cheaper talent to truly succeed in the league with any amount of longevity. Outside of Tom Brady, the Patriots release a lot of veteran talent unless they are willing to continue to play on team friendly deals.

Can we find a QB and consistently draft the right talent or find FA's at the right price to fill holes? I don't know, but that's the only way we'll ever find sustained success.

You agreed w/this and it seems many others are also agreeing.

I don't get that line of thinking at all.

Mack and Gipson were guys who have been to the Pro Bowl. Mack is not that old and Gipson is what....25 or 26? That's young. I didn't really care that much about Benji, but he's not old and he did contribute last year.

Who the hell did we bring in that will contribute more than any of those guys?

Seriously?

We brought in Erving last year. In 3/4 years I think Erving will be hitting his prime while Mack will be declining. Replacing from within. Erving will still be on a relatively team friendly rookie deal (or 5th year option which could be a steal if the cap continues to grow), while Mack will most likely be a highly compensated mid-30 y/o center on a cash-strapped rebuilding team as Matt Ryan's career winds down.

We cut Whitner and Dansby who we didn't see as part of the future and will replace them with Campbell and Davis who are younger and cheaper. Replacing descending with ascending players for less money.

We lost Gipson, but he is injury prone and safeties have a short shelf life. We signed Moore to a low risk short term deal, and there are some safeties in this draft to like (Ramsey, Dillon, Joseph, Bell, etc)

Benji had a good year, but has had injury issues and is probably best as a 3rd receiver and return specialist. He was well compensated by the Chargers. There are receivers in this draft and we have 10 picks.

I would have liked to have kept Schwartz, but something hinkie went on between his agent and Sashi. He was a good player, but I don't think he's irreplaceable.

We're not just looking at next year.

Once upon a time.......


...........and they all lived happily ever after!

Is your take the Shakespearean Tragedy or nightmare version?

What's wrong with Faerie Tales? I did tell you where I'm coming from in that PM.

Then you are not grading this front office. You are grading the last couple.

Assumng that they won't resign guys that they have drafted is assuming too much.

They Pats are consistently in the playoffs and let good players go all the time. The comp picks that they get for them become future starters because they draft well.

It's like how Mangini traded good players for washed up Jet players.

Nothing wrong w/those tales. Or is it tails? LOL

I just find them far-fetched. I prefer realism.

Not getting deals done with Schwartz and Gipson was a felony. Not getting a deal done with Mack was a misdemeanor. Not getting a deal done with Benji was no big deal.

Schwartz and Gipson are the exact type of players you get deals done with to advance and grow your team. They're young, they're home grown, and their needles are still pointing up. Gipson had a down year and people act like that's the end all be all and he's not worth it. The truth is no one knows why he had a down year. Maybe the contract stuff was weighing on him. Maybe he wasn't fully recovered from his injuries. You don't cast aside players because of the most recent events. You take the whole package into consideration. My prediction is Gipson will be the best center fielder in football the next three years. The way Browns fans and the FO treat players is like only the last bit of evidence matters. It reminds me of a guy I work with. He could think you're great, a superstar in your specialty. But if his most recent interaction with you wasn't very positive, you're worthless in his eyes. It's dumb and silly.

By not signing Schwartz and Gipson, the Browns created more holes and signaled they are 100% in a rebuild. There are no two ways about it. It would be nice if the FO just said that instead of feeding the fans a bunch of bullcrap that they want to be competitive.

I'll also add this. If the Browns do not take Goff or Wentz at 2, Jackson will not make it to year 3. RG3 is a pipe dream. That isn't going to pan out. Get a guy in here that coincides with your new coach's first year and let these guys grow together. The fans will understand this type of growing pain, especially if there is incremental improvement along the way. The fans will not understand passing on a guy, relying on a never was, and hoping the project you pick in round 3 can develop. That's what loser franchises do. That's what the Browns do. That's what I fully expect them to do.

I don't know if it matters whether or not they take a qb at 2 or not regarding Hue's fate.

He is probably going to be the guy who takes the fall for this "new plan."

The season is over FIRE everyone there is no way the Browns will will even one game without Mack and Schwartz and Gipson etc...pack it in no point in trying it can't be done they lied to the fans fire the owner.

Who's the best pick for 2017 draft?

The problem with the new plan isn't that it won't or might not work. The problem is the reasoning behind it. Haslam couldn't stomach the infighting between Pettine and Farmer. He overreacted and then tried to find people that could all "get along". That is an absolute terrible primary prerequisite for putting together a FO.

Not saying it won't work, but when you're foundational reason for building it is flimsy at best, it probably doesn't stand much of a chance.

The only thing that can save Hue is a potential franchise QB at 2. He can have two losing seasons while Goff or Wentz develop. The fans and media won't stand for two consecutive losing seasons with RG3 or a project. And quite honestly, I'd probably be inclined to agree with them.

The RG3 signing is probably the worst thing this franchise could have done. I see no rhyme or reason behind it. The argument that "it doesn't hurt to take a flier" I think is baloney. By signing RG3, there are three possible outcomes here and not a single one is good. The Browns pass on QB at #2 and RG3 starts...or the Browns take a QB at 2 and said QB sits thereby delaying his development...or Browns take a QB at 2, start him and create a potential QB controversy when the young guy struggles.

Something tells me the Browns have hitched their wagons to RG3. I cannot remember a time ever where I really had almost zero interest in this team.

It is very tiresome to come on here and see the same poo poo over and over. Fun times!

Just wait! In 3 weeks you get to come on here and read about how terrible every draft pick made is.

OR, how each draft pick is just stellar and exactly what the team needs, and "this will be a good year" stuff.

Go to any thread I bet you find the same guys bashing the front office for...

A) Not resigning FA

B) signing RGIII

C) Harvard guys

I'd say we're more at opposite ends of the spectrum with realism somewhere in the middle.

My end is more fun at parties, though

I will say it again. That isn't this front office. They just freakin got here!

If they were all so good why did the Browns not win more games while they were here????

Fire Jimmy Haslam, make him sell to...Hmmm that's the next question.

Posters have been running down every front office since the come back I believe it was you that used then Steelers as an example of how to build franchise, it had taken them almost 40 years before they had a playoff game

The early years: Decades of futility

In May 1933, in anticipation of the repeal of some of Pennsylvania's restrictive laws in the fall of that year, Rooney applied for a franchise with the NFL.[9] His request was granted on May 19, 1933, and the Pittsburgh Professional Football Club,

1972, however, was the breakthrough year, and the beginning of an NFL dynasty. Rookie Franco Harris joined the team and ran for 1,055 yards and scored 11 touchdowns. Pittsburgh finished 11–3, first place in the AFC Central, and made the playoffs for the first time since 1947.
Franco Harris in 2009.

Their first playoff game, against the Oakland Raiders, at Three Rivers Stadium, featured one of the best-known plays in league history: the Immaculate Reception"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Pittsburgh_Steelers

It takes time to get it right!

Just like you, he is entitled to his opinion. His opinion is you repeat the same thread topic over and over.

After a 6–6 season in 1953 and 5–7 season in 1954, the Steelers drafted Johnny Unitas in 1955. Cut by the Steelers in training camp, Unitas later resurfaced as a Super Bowl hero – with the Baltimore Colts. Pittsburgh suffered through yet two more losing seasons

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Pittsburgh_Steelers

...and there is nothing that you can say or do that will stop him from expressing his views...GOT THAT?

No one. I just like to talk about my team in a constructive, fun way and then I come on here and it is the same thing over and over.

I wasn't specifically talking about you, just the board in general.

Come on cfr...I like you buddy. I consider you a "board friend". We've PM'ed. You hooked up a friend of a friend with tickets, and I appreciated it. But you don't come here to discuss. You come to pass the time. A discussion involves more than 5 words a post where your intent is clear. Half the time I don't know if you are being honest, sarcastic, obtuse, purposely vague, or serious. That's not a discussion. They're sentence fragments.

You're entitled to your opinion and your posting style. But I don't think passing judgment suits you.