DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2016 NFL Season 2016 NFL Draft Titans Trade No. 1 Pick to LA Rams

Jim McMahon won two Superbowls with two different teams. (Chicago & Green Bay)(ironically both against the Patriots)

He was an OK QB, Less than "franchise QB".

We have had arguably the best Left Tackle in the game since 2007 and have not made the playoffs.

Take the Top 10 ranked QB's since 2007 and tell me how many have not made the playoffs.

That is why QB's will go 1 & 2 when Tunsil, Ramsey and Jack grade higher than them.

One player, does not a team make.

Now look at all the QB's drafted in the top 10 picks since 2007 and notice how many actually made the playoffs.

That is why it isn't the great idea people think it is.

Well last years AFC/NFC title games had three #1 overall QB's and Tom Brady.....

The round before that featured six 1st round QB's, one 3rd round QB and Tom Brady (6th round).

So obviously your chances are much higher.

I think the fact that 'if there is a bonafide good QB, he goes number 1' may have something to do with those title game numbers. Bad QBs go number one because people don't want to miss the next Tom Brady.

Sadly, there seems to be only one Tom Brady.

While there is some reasoning behind what you say, why is it then that you see most every NFL team out there has taken a QB when other players may be rated a little higher? Do you actually believe a guy like Tannehill was the highest ranked player on the board when he was drafted as an example?

While you are right that it takes more than a QB to make a team, for the most part, you can disguise or cover almost any single weakness on a team with the exception of the QB position. It is the most highly sought position in the NFL. That's what puts a premium on the position and why you have and will almost always see NFL teams take a little more risk when drafting the position of QB.

As I said earlier, all drafted players are projections. And I would challenge you to show that LT's have been more successful by percentage than QB's within the top 5 of the draft. It's great to say they're easier to find based more on measurables, but I believe finding a franchise LT in the top 5 of the draft has no greater odds of success than QB's drafted in the top 5.

A few random thoughts...not in response to any previous posts.

The #1 overall pick being traded to a team looking to pick a QB was always a possibility. The Titans announced their willingness to trade the pick immediately upon it being official. I'm absolutely sure this didn't surprise the Browns.

Both Wentz and Goff have strengths and weaknesses, and are really different players, yet there is no clear consensus as to which is better. It is possible that the Browns could feel that either is a good pick at #2.

It could also be that they feel there are other viable QB options in the draft. They have been clear they intend to draft a QB. They have never said where in the draft they intend to pick one. Most people have assumed that it would be in the first. Personally, I think Lynch, Dak, and 12 Gauge could prove to be NFL starters with the proper coaching and time. That kid Adams intrigues me as well.

Trading back for more picks, with as many needs as this team has, seems like a viable option as well. Yes, the percent chance of getting an impact player diminishes, but history has shown that impact players can be found later. You need good talent evaluation, and luck.

Another argument for trading back is building a solid foundation first, then going after top of the draft impact players. I think Oakland is a good example of that approach. Good teams have both impact players and solid foundations. You need both. This is a multi-year process. No need to try to do it all at once.

I think we want one guy getting a majority of the reps the whole time. New system, unfamiliar receivers for the QB- Every rep will matter.

McCown might be able to get by on fewer reps with his wealth of experience. RGIII or Wentz I don't think so. Knowing plays on paper is one thing. Knowing how your guys run them takes reps.

If RG3 struggles at all, you know a majority of fans will be crying for the new guy. If he's splitting reps most of the offseason, he probably will struggle. They'll try to hold off the switch, but the rabid fans will affect Robert and he'll get worse. Wentz will get rushed out before he is ready, and we'll end up with another year of futility and 2 broken QB prospects.

There are some pretty good nuggets in this article:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...e-for-no-1-pick

So thankful we backed out

Unless I'm mistaken, Jim never threw a single pass for the Packers during their Super Bowl run in '96, though I think he tossed a few in the regular season in mop-up duty. And the '85 Bears won without much help from Jim too, that was mostly the defense. But I get your point.

A first round pick for Sam Bradford. Ouch. Let's hope that was a Farmer move and Sashi Brown talked him out of it and not the other way around.

It was an interesting read. Silver is adamant that their pick is Goff...

Who's going to want to trade up? If we move out of #2 I want a LOT to do so. Not a mid draft pick. So I really don't see anyone ponying up a but load of picks to move up to 2. For who? Name the player worth giving up a ton of piclks to move up for.... IF we were going to trade down it would have had to be after the Titans took Tunsil. Then perhaps someone like the Eagles would move up for Wentz. That went out the window. If we get a call by all means consider it. I just don't believe the phone will ring and if it does I don't think anyone will give us enough to move.

If the Rams go Goff, I could see the Cowboys, Eagles, and 49ers wanting Wentz. Get them bidding against each other and who knows. I'd move to 4 without too crazy a deal. Ramsey/Bosa/Buckner/Jack/Tunsil would all be there but one.

Using one season as an example is poor logic, but I'll play along...

The play-off QB's last year and draft spot...

Aaron Rodgers 24
Kirk Cousins 102
Russell Wilson 75
Teddy Bridgewater 32
Alex Smith 1 (not by his current team)
Brian Hoyer undrafted
Ben Rothlesburger 11
Andy Dalton 35
Carson Palmer 1 (not by his current team)
Cam Newton 1
Tom Brady 199
Peyton Manning 1 (not by his current team)

So out of the 12 playoff QB's only 4 were drafted in the top 10 picks. Of those 4, only 1 was drafted by his current team and the rest were acquired outside the draft.

So if you want to go just by last year, drafting your QB at all doesn't seem that important let alone using a top 10 pick on one.

I'm not saying that having a good QB isn't important. (although Peyton Manning's contribution last year is debatable) But reaching with a high pick isn't the smartest way of going about it.

And which one of those is going to lione up under center. Oh, I forgot. Browns fans don't want a QB in Cleveland. You all are hoping we can win with McCown. lmao

Shut-up Spirit w/the nonsense.

Some of us just think that neither of those guys are really franchise qbs. Some of us recognize that the Browns have a plethora of needs and that Lynch has more upside than either Goff or Wentz.

Stop making crap up about what we think.

RG3 actually, though I guess Jack could run the wildcat.

Who is this QB you're talking about going to throw to?

wait so no one is going to want to trade for the second pick because the rams have the first pick and will take a QB, but they would have wanted to trade if Tunsil was taken at number one because that would leave two QB's on the board and not one?

or are you saying that the rams will take the one QB that everybody else wanted , so if they take Wentz, then nobody wants Goff and will not trade up?

Then you say if they DO line up to trade then we are stupid for doing it because, with sarcasm, nobody wants a QB in Cleveland

Actually that is exactly what it means. The market determines the worth and the Rams ponied up. Therefore, at least for the Rams, the #1 pick and their choice of QB was set at the market rate that they would pay and they paid it. Will it be a good choice, who knows; however, if it ends up being a bust the Rams will be hurting for a long time coming.

Steve, why would having a top 5 pick next year be awesome? Are you saying that it would then give us 2 top 5 picks next year because the Browns will be really bad this year? Just curious as why you would want a top 5 pick. Is there someone coming out next year that you really like? Again, just curious.

Well, it's always good to own a top 5 pick whether it's to get a specific player or to gain more value trading down. A top ten pick next year is always more valuable than a high 2nd this year by a long shot. Myles Garrett would be an example of a player that could be gotten with that pick, which would be huge. Or a trade down with that pick getting Cameron Sutton and another player.

I am mind boggled by the notion that taking a QB at 2, either one, makes sense for other QB needy teams, but not for the Browns. Why, because we're too smart for that? We know more than they do? Our situation isn't nearly as desperate? The QBs are good enough for them but not for us? We have a better plan that involves some future maneuver? We really don't need a QB? Franchise QBs are for pussies? In what FREAKIN' universe does this make any sense?

JMO Cal. I think we should take a qb at #2 whether it is Wentz or Goff. We need a QB for the future and if others are trading up to get one or the other and our FO believes that either one can be a franchise QB than we should draft one. We are as needy at that position as anyone else. It is tempting to trade down to get more picks but if RG doesn't work out and the QB's in next years draft aren't great than what do we do? We need one draft one it's that simple.

By the way just to add something. I hope we win 10 games this year but let's face it, we probably will win 2 or 3 again and will be picking right at the top in 2017. We get our QB this year we can trade down next year. Who knows, it may be the 1st pick in the draft.

We need a true game changer. Somebody who either the offense or the defense will have to plan for.

IF LA takes "our man" (meaning QB) and IF we stick at #2 then I think we need to go for DeForest Buckner, DE Oregon. Dude is a massive presence, incredibly strong, can play both 3-4 and 4-3 and he could be a beast on the line that offenses have to plan for. As I stated in previous threads, although I live in Oregon I am not a UofO alum nor a Ducks fan so that is not me being a homer. I like him more than Bosa and I think he is as good and arguably better player than Bosa. I am also concerned about Bosa's character issues (also discussed in other threads). Rumors whether unsubstantiated or not are alarm bells given what we have dealt with from Gordon, Manziel and Gilbert. I think we need to steer clear of any such potential for nonsense and stay focused on building the team and not one player's ego or personal baggage. Obviously, no idea if Buckner is a loose cannon or not, but I haven't heard anything of the sorts. He could just be that game changer we desperately need. Again, only going on assumption that the Rams take our man at 1 and we stay at 2.

For what its worth I would take: Buckner at 2, WR at 32 and then Hogan at 65. I may swap out WR at 32 and maybe grab Lynch (prob needing to trade back into 1st rd) but, there is something about Hogan that intrigues me and I often wonder if he is a dark horse as Pep knows him well.

Cool, thanks for sharing Steve. I see your point.

I'm thinking the Rams go Wentz, and I'm kind of hoping they do so that I can adopt them as my NFL team to root for that might actually be good. They're in the NFC and we don't play them this season, so no conflicted interests.

I don't like Goff, so I'd trade down if this happens. We have RGIII as our young (only 26) prospect and McCown as our mentor. Teams usually only carry two QBs into the season, and, with Pryor at WR, we'll probably do likewise.

We need receivers if the QB is going to be successful. Trade down and get some weapons.

Joe Haden: Browns should bypass QB in Round 1

So if the Rams go Goff, you hope there's a bidding war so we can trade away our opportunity to draft Wentz, but if they pick Wentz you want to adopt them as your second team? And in neither scenario should the Browns take a QB? Yeah, okay. Please refer to my original post.

And I could care less what Joe Haden thinks, he wants the CB. Wasn't he all hot for Manziel too?

If the Rams take Goff, the Browns get Wentz and there's no looking back.

Joe Haden needs to shut up and start playing football. Shut down corner my rear end. Shut up and man up already.

Joe Haden was supporting the QBs already on the roster. I like the quote.

Manziel's problems were more off the field than on. They did bleed onto the field some.

I'd be okay with taking Wentz, but I want no part of Goff. I'd prefer a trade down. I really like Doctson.

I haven't read everyone's take on this, but I'm absolutely stunned..

One of those two QB had to really wow them. I personally think its Goff, which is disappointing because that was the guy I was hoping for. I just can't see a team unloading all kinds of resources for a QB who didn't even play division 1, and only about 23 games of tape to look at, where you have 3 full seasons of games for Goff. That would be going pretty far out on a ledge for a guy if you ask me. I've read that Wentz is doing well in meetings, but I have a hard time believe he's the Rams' guy.

I just really wonder what the Browns truly thought of this. I'm just glad they have time to react as an organization if their plans were thrown off.

If Goff was their guy, and he's gone, I think that takes a bit of pressure off as they can just play it safe and take the absolute best player available, which could very well be Tunsil. I'd be disappointed, but I totally get how hard it would be to pass up a guy that highly rated.

I'd also totally get trading out as well, even though that is also something I don't really want to see. If you can't land the QB you want at 2, then trading out should absolutely be considered. You could possibly still have a nice first round pick, and you could really use an added pick on a Connor Cook or Cardale or whomever.

Having to decide as an organization on a QB with your very first pick that any of them have ever made is almost unfair. We've seen it, guys get fired for failing in those moments. To have to make that call right away worries me.

also,

a cool article about the history of trading up to get #1.

http://www.footballperspective.com/history-of-trading-the-first-overall-pick-in-the-nfl-draft/

You do realize we go 3 deep into our QB depth every season. Only having 2 NFL ready QB's is dumb for the Brown's!

We need 3 QB's that can actually play the position at a NFL level and we absolutely need Pryor to concentrate on being just a WR.

LOL...It has for certain Brown's fan's.

I think the main reason the Rams traded up has less to do with the actual QBS then their FO/coaching situation.

Jeff Fisher is the definition of mediocre.
In a league where coaches with winning records get fired (Harbaugh, Lover Smith, Schoteinhemer) Fisher has managed to stick around. But if they have another mediocre season Fish proly gets fired.

Drafting a rookie QB buys him time regardless of the record.

Moving into a new market with fickle fans it makes sense to make splash move.

Ed btw welcome to the board, I enjoy your posts even if I dont agree with some of them. Good addition to the board.

The Rams have a hell of a team but just dont have a QB. With their defense and run game, decent play at QB could put them deep in the playoffs.

Then you have the fact that Goff is gonna put asses in the seats, its that simple. They need a draw to lure fans in LA.

They beleive they were one key piece away from contending.