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change body fat into muscle. no weight loss

It's hard to say why. The coaching staff was w/the defense all year and obviously, if they knew what was wrong w/the defense, they would have fixed it. I can only speculate:

--I don't think the shift from Pet to O'Neil was a huge deal. It may have had some negative consequences in the nuances of the little things, but this was still Pet's defensive scheme.

--I do think that both men expected more from the players in year 2. Similar to Ryan's defense, this was a thinking man's defense. Guys had a lot of responsibilities. Perhaps they weren't smart enough to pull it off?

--I think losing a ton of players hurt. The Browns lost Sheard, Skrine, Reubin, Taylor, Winn, Kitchen. Overall, I think the replacements did not play quite as well as the guys that were lost. Losing that many guys also really hurts w/continuity and that is even more true if my point about the defense having more thrust upon them knowledge wise holds merit. Furthermore, anyone who has played the game knows how disheartening all those changes can be on a team. Players see the guys they went to war with cast aside. They question the direction of the team and if they will be next.

--Injuries played a role, too. Obviously, Haden comes to mind. But Whit was hurt at one point and Gipson battled several injuries throughout the year.

--One more thing to consider, I don't think the defense from the previous year was all that great, either. I think people forget what an easy, easy schedule the Browns had when they won those 7 games and how many poor qbs they faced that year.




There will be a few to come on here and say that I just hate the FO, so I am bad-mouthing Williams, but I have always tried to call it as I see it. I have no idea how in the world he could have received such a grade. He started off okay, but man, he was giving up huge plays [as in multiple] in almost every game after the first few games of the year.

Muscle weighs more than fat.

ok. still same point. lose 8% of body fat doesnt have anything to do with lose 15 pound if changing into muscle....

j/c

Why the step back from 2014?

I think there was some drop off from Pet to O'Neill. Pettine tried to look at the offense more and the D suffered as a result.

I think Starks being added was a detriment to the D. He freelanced too much which completely killed the integrity of the D. When you're good and the defense allows for it, it can work, neither of those were true for Starks in 2015.

I think Joe's injury hurt a lot. Without him, we couldn't cover long enough for our passrushers to get to the QB. Since we couldn't get to the QB in time, O'Neill decided he'd drop our OLBs more frequently which unfortunately only made things worse. While we didn't give up as many quick passes, QBs could sit back all day and wait for guys to run away from slow linebackers or an aging Tramon.

Shelton went through some growing pains. He was asked to play a completely different role than he had in college. I think he tried too hard to make things happen at times instead of just doing his job. I don't think his season was as bad as some make it out.

Gipson being gimpy a lot didn't help. He wasn't in Pro-bowl season form. He had been a large part of our success in 2014. He could erase a lot of mistakes by the corners, but couldn't in '15.

Whitner was okay, but also slowing down a bit. He had some solid hits, but wasn't the real enforcer he had been earlier in his career.

Dansby had some solid looking stats, but he was a gambler at times. When he won it looked great, when he guessed wrong we got gashed.

We played more tentatively as a whole. We weren't playing downhill hardly ever. With the dropping LBs we kind of naturally played more passively instead of pressing the action.

The guys that weren't gambling seemed afraid to make mistakes, and always waited until they were sure of what they saw instead of just reacting.

I'm hoping the positivity I'm hearing translates into confidence on the field. A player might make a mistake, but make it going 100 miles an hour and good things could still happen.

So a pound of muscle weighs more than a lb of fat?

Fat doesn't change into muscle or vice versa.

Fat doesn't "change"; cells are still one or other. Ratio can change when muscle grows in bulk and fat content is lower. Still, numbers can be confusing for him if accurate.

And yet, fat floats. Amazing!

I think you're still getting players mixed up. Erving said he lost 8% body fat. Shelton said he lost 15lbs. Mingo added weight.

I probably am, I'm as mixed up as a bag of mixed nuts.

RE: 2014 Defense

One reason I like Football Outsiders is they try to account for strength of schedule in their stats. They ranked the schedule the Browns faced that year as 15th.
The Browns run defense was poor 31st but pass defense was 2nd. A counting stat I like for a quick look at pass defense is QB rating allowed. 2014 the Browns were #1--74.1 passer rating--#1 57.1 comp % allowed--Tied for 3rd in YPA 6.4 allowed behind the Seahawks and Bills...and they managed that ranking while only raking up 31 sacks.

The 2014 pass defense is the reason I wonder what happened?

Thanks for the info/perspectives. Losing some key players, injuries (Sheard, Rubin, Haden (inj/missed time/decline?), Whit (inj?), Gibs (inj/decline?)

Gives me an idea of who to consider when the BPA are close.

I'm not a fan of the strength of schedule factor, because I feel like it doesn't accurately take into account where in the season the match up was and how the individual teams played that week... maybe that makes sense.

For example, do you play the Cowboys before or after the Romo injury. Playing the Cowboys is weighted the same regardless.

I also read somewhere, that later in the season is weighted more (may have been for PFF) which doesn't seem a particularly fair way of doing things.

With so many factors, it's hard to get consistent qualitative rankings.

Agreed. Strength of schedule is 75% smoke up your butt. It compares last years team against last years team (how they did last year).

Football Outsiders accounts for strength of through their DVOA. Those interested should go to their site and check it out/read up. But its not just some random strength of schedule ranking.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/info/glossary

Using stats that attempt to get it right is still better then relying on "team" defense stats like points or yards.

I agree.

Good conversation. Just remember, that last post I made was pure speculation/opinion. I don't know exactly what happened.

Well, the injuries and loss of key players was relevant, but regardless......it's hard to pin-point any one thing.

I know you do a ton of research. Can you answer a question for me? Well, make that two questions:

--Can you tell me how many sacks the Browns had in 2014 vs 2015?

--This one is even bigger......can you compare the number of pressures for those two years?

I have an even more important question, but I don't know if you can obtain this information. Can you find a comparison of how long opposing qbs had in the pocket for the two years? That one might be of real consequence.

For example...........a few years ago, most posters were trashing the OL. Weeden was getting sacked a lot and posters blamed the line. Hoyer comes in and the sacks drop off. Some one posted how long each held the ball on average per pass attempt. The difference was incredible.

Thus, if we were giving qbs more time to throw last year, that would be yet another factor in the digression of the defense.

If all that is too much work..........I understand. Most will ignore it anyway........but, I am curious and you seem to know how to find the info way better than I can.

total Team Defensive Hurries.. 2015

Kansas City Chiefs 152
Oakland Raiders 139
Arizona Cardinals 123
Cincinnati Bengals 118
Carolina Panthers 117
Green Bay Packers 112
Atlanta Falcons 111
Philadelphia Eagles 110
Chicago Bears 110
Minnesota Vikings 109
San Francisco 49ers 108
Jacksonville Jaguars 106
New York Giants 103
Pittsburgh Steelers 102
Seattle Seahawks 99
Houston Texans 97
Cleveland Browns 97
Washington Redskins 95
Indianapolis Colts 95
New England Patriots 94
New York Jets 93
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 91
Detroit Lions 90
Denver Broncos 90
Miami Dolphins 88
Tennessee Titans 87
St. Louis Rams 82
New Orleans Saints 81
San Diego Chargers 80
Baltimore Ravens 72
Dallas Cowboys 71
Buffalo Bills 57

2014 season....

Denver Broncos 95
Arizona Cardinals 93
Buffalo Bills 80
New York Jets 78
Houston Texans 77
Philadelphia Eagles 77
Washington Redskins 73
New Orleans Saints 73
San Diego Chargers 73
Cincinnati Bengals 70
Chicago Bears 69
New England Patriots 68
New York Giants 68
St. Louis Rams 68
Kansas City Chiefs 67
Miami Dolphins 67
Jacksonville Jaguars 66
Tennessee Titans 65
Atlanta Falcons 63
Cleveland Browns 62
Carolina Panthers 61
Minnesota Vikings 60
Pittsburgh Steelers 59
Green Bay Packers 59
San Francisco 49ers 58
Oakland Raiders 57
Detroit Lions 55
Seattle Seahawks 55
Tampa Bay Buccaneers 53
Baltimore Ravens 50
Dallas Cowboys 48
Indianapolis Colts 48

Doesn't give you the time in the pocket but the hurries gives some type of estimated time maybe

That's interesting.

Thanks for posting.

your welcome, trying to find the actual numbers that you would like to see. I'm also interested in those. lots to read to find it.

I guess maybe going back every game and getting the QB's release time would be the best way to get that info.

There are sites that do that type of thing. I remember seeing the Hoyer/Weeden comparison. There are guys on here who know how to find it. Don't go crazy trying to find it. It can be frustrating.

If i recall correctly, the TNF game against Buffalo that Hoyer got hurt during, they made a big deal about it..

We went from the slowest snap-to-release to one of the fastest, changing from Weeden to Hoyer.

2014 31 sacks, 27th
2015 29 sacks, 28th

I haven't seen a stat like that. That would be a really interesting stat. Like a 'time to pressure' stat.

ProFootball focus used to provide snap to throw numbers for the QB as part of their premium content.
But, since they've gone big time the premium content is available only to NFL/NCAA and select media outlets.

Proly won't get to it til the weekend. I would be interested in your/others welcome of course thoughts on front 7.

The most damning thing about our sack total from last year is that of 29 sacks, 16 came in 2 games against weak opponents. (Tennessee and San Francisco)

Wow. A bad stat is worse than it looks.

Yeah, I think that would be a very meaningful stat when evaluating a defense in general, but it also would shed more light on the secondary. For example, while Denver's secondary is good, it would be cool to see how they benefit from how quickly Denver's pass rush gets to the qb. Not just sacks, but pressures.




That stinks. Those guys don't want to write about interesting stuff like that. Digging up dirt, writing fluff pieces, or writing slanderous articles are what sells, I guess.....

That's a very good point that needs to be considered when evaluating why the defense seemingly regressed last year.

Okay.........I'll start. Hope I can remember their names. LOL

Defensive line:

Shelton: I like his intensity and I think he has a chance to become disruptive. He flashed at times. Overall, he was disappointing for a couple of reasons. He was out of shape and got tired, which led to reduced # of snaps. He played w/poor pad level and opponents were able to steer him out of the hole. Did not draw enough double teams, which can be explained by the previous sentence.

Dez Bryant: Didn't play as well as previous two years, but was still our best front seven player. Plays w/more gap integrity than the other guys and he is very strong. Has decent explosion off the LOS.

Meder: Overachiever or up-and-comer? Was pretty inconsistent. I saw him clog up things at times and I saw him getting blown up. I don't have a great handle on his play.

Cooper: Has good explosion off the line. Has the size/build of a pass rusher. But, very undisciplined. If he doesn't guess right, he is a liability. His production was minimal.

Starks: Another inconsistent guy. Made some of the bigger plays for the line. Also had stretches where he was being manhandled. I never understood that signing.

Hughes: Another inconsistent guy. He's strong. He penetrates. He disappears. I think he is another guy who maybe regressed a bit last year, so I guess there is still hope.

OLBs

Kruger: I like him more than most around here do. He plays w/good leverage and can get under guys pads and rip through them w/good power. We have to remember that the Ryan/Pet/O'Neil defense has their outside guys crash down a lot against the run. That makes it hard to keep outside containment. Adjustments were made, but it's still a factor when evaluating our outside guys. I think he could play better under Horton.

Orchard: Started slow. Can get consumed by blockers. Stronger upper body, weaker legs. Improved later in the year. It will be interesting to see how new staff views him as a player. He could get lost in the wash.

Mingo: I liked the pick when we made it. That was an absolutely terrible draft class. One of the worst of all-time. I think he has skills, but he has been very disappointing. Lack of strength is an issue. He also doesn't seem to play like he has a place on the field. Horton could help improve his play. If not, he'll be yet another first round bust.

Solomon: Stronger than Orchard and Mingo. Has decent technique when engaging blockers. Straight line player w/very little lateral movement. Played well in 2014. Didn't look as good early in 2015 and was injured for most of the year. Doubt he makes the team.

A. Bryant: He has best explosion of the group. Makes more big plays. On the other hand, he's pretty lean and once a guy gets into his body, Bryant is done. Liability when teams run right at him. Off the field issues. Gone.

Is that everyone?

The front office thread is locked and this looked like the best place to put this without starting it's own thread.

ESPN's Mark Dominik "hears" Browns chief strategy officer Paul DePodesta will only observe the draft process this year.

Dominik says it is part of his NFL education. The Browns have been clear DePodesta will serve more as a big-picture guy and advisor than a decision maker, so this news is not a big surprise. It is possible Cleveland is easing DePodesta in to what will be a more hands-on role in the future. EVP of football operations Sashi Brown is making the final decisions in the front office.

Source: Alex Marvez on Twitter

http://www.rotoworld.com/sports/nfl/football?r=1

How would you list and prioritize the areas that you would want to address?

Going through this it sounds like virtually any player in the top of the first would fit a need.

5-tech in base that could move to 3-tech in nickel and provide interior rush. This is draft is supposed to have good depth with the DL prospects.

A premium edge rusher (not that there are any clear choices in the draft) but when it comes to rushers I feel like you just gotta keep taking them.

A CB to either play across from Haden or replace Haden, depending on how they play. Imo the quality of the CBs doesn't extend pass mid-point of the second round.

A FS. Seems like there is Karl Joseph then everybody else. But there are a couple sprinkled in that I like that imo will get drafted higher then the current mocks have them.

ILB are thin to me. The there is the question of which type? The SILB or WILB? I think you can find LBs with the traits for a downhill thumper type later in the draft but the WILB spot is thin.

Offensively-

RT/OT 1st round and mid-way through the second but after that? Didn't look deep at the OTs. I would prioritize RT.

WR. WR. WR. I only think there WRs at the top who could be a #1 X or Z receiver and they're probably gonna be gone by pick 32. The rest are kinda niche/specific role complimentary guys. Deep threat guy, slot guys, then some are others that profile as prototype X or Z but aren't blue chip.

I think a star RB can make a huge difference in the offense and imho there is only 1 Zeke. Other then him I would beg off RBs til the 4th and lower.

A lot of bickering about the FO. Division between fans. I guess if we were any good this wouldn't be the case.

I am inclined to give the FO a chance to prove themselves. Why? Because, since 1999 NO traditional football school of thought has worked. Why would I think it would work this time? Why not bring people in, strip it down and try to piece it back together with a more radical thought process and with folks thinking outside the box? It wont happen over night, it may not happen next year...but, hopefully we see progress and that the machine is moving in the right direction.

Regarding the trade down from 2. I personally love it and think we need the players. To be a cynic regarding our drafting history is again, not giving the FO the chance. But, it is also a complete crapshoot for all 32 teams. Yes, we have got it wrong more times than one would think is humanly, let alone, statistically possible but, that does not mean it will happen again.

How many guys in the top 10, let alone top 50 or top 100 will become studs or busts? The very nature of the college game means that, with all honesty, the players are coming in arguably less prepared and capable to make the transition to the NFL game. More and more coaches are voicing their concern about this. Especially, with the QB position. The two games have different approaches and the talent gap between the two is also a massive factor. Will Wentz, Goff, Buckner, Bosa, Elliott, Jack, Ramsey, Tunsil, Stanley, Hargreaves etc. be the next great ones? Maybe all of them, maybe a few, maybe only a couple. Who knows.

I do feel, however, we need to look forward rather than constantly focusing on what happened in the past. We are all mostly in agreement that we now have a solid group of coaches and at least in the trench have expertise that can lead and hopefully get them to be competitive. We know it wont be easy but, given time the proof will hopefully be there to show the plan can work.

What else do we have to lose because, so far nothing in the "football textbooks" has worked.

Again, just my 2cents.

Hmmmm..........good thoughts and questions.

I think it was before you joined the board, but my mantra early on was that the Browns had a ton of needs and that the biggest issue was that they didn't have any true impact players, other than Joe Thomas.

There are guys who know a lot more about the draft than I do and hopefully, they will chime in. Heck, you know a lot more about the draft than me, so I welcome your advice. Here is how I kinda view what the Browns really need in terms of impact players:

--Edge rusher. I am debating between saying edge rusher or just pass rusher. But, the Browns really, really need to pressure the qb more. It's a huge issue for them that makes the secondary look worse than they are. Did you read what I said about some of the edge rushers in the OLB thread in the Draft forum? What do you think?

--Wide receiver. Another position where we have no one that teams have to game plan for. No one who can break a big play on any play. No one who is even a guy you can count on each week. Huge area of need in terms of not having an impact player.

--Cornerback. A guy we can count on each week. A guy who will force teams to throw to the other side on almost every week of the year. If we had stayed at 2, I would have liked Jalen Ramsey.

Obviously, we have many other needs. I am upset that Gipson, Schwartz, and Mack were not re-signed. Those are more holes to fill on a team that has so many holes. If we could have at least kept Gipson and Schwartz.....oh well....It's very hard to overcome when you have to draft guys at positions that were previously a strength.

I am happy the Browns traded out of the second spot. I hope they don't continue trading down. We have a ton of needs, but more importantly, it's crucial that this team gets an impact player or two. Game changers. Difference makers. Not just okay players. You need okay players. That's obvious, but you also need guys who truly impact the game.

I'm anxious to hear your takes.

With all due respect, why did you make those comments on this thread? This is actually the one thread where people are talking football and the bickering isn't dominating things. Wouldn't your comments work better in the Trading the #2 pick in the Draft forum? Lot's of people bashing others in that thread.

Based on my gut, since we seem to be treating this draft as a panacea for the future, I really thought that we would be busier in the first round or top of the second. We need some brutes. Unless we judge horseflesh better than in past drafts, where we pick doesn't matter. Hope we get players. Maybe this will work. Wait and see.

I am encouraged that they made that trade w/the Eagles. I think it was an outstanding move. Hopefully, they will have a good draft and get things turned around.

My bad. I was reading several posts in various threads. But, to be honest, the bickering does seem spread throughout most threads and in most sections. As the title is "The Team, Right Now" I thought it was relevant.

Actually Muscle weighs more than fat.

a pound of muscle weighs more than a pound of fat?