DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2016 NFL Season 2016 NFL Draft Browns trade #2 pick to Eagles

It is possible that when they said "their own free agents" they meant the ones they brought in to the team originally, and not ones drafted by the previous regime. May be not, but maybe.



Being one of the top 2 QBs in a draft is not the same as being a franchose QB. If the front office thought that they could a franchise QB at 2 then they would not have made the trade. Drafting a QB high, just to take a QB high, is not a smart move.

And because there are teams who see those guys as franchise QBs does not make it so. Ryan Leaf, JaMarcus Russell are two recent examples.

JMO on why we made this trade. Our FO felt that neither of the top 2 QB's was worth the 2nd pick. They want to rebuild and know we have a lot of holes so they made this trade to get as many picks as possible. Think about it, of all the teams that were bad in 2015 what team has the best chance to be bad again this year? I hope we win 10 games this year but most likely it will be about what we won in "15. Our FO knows this too and probably figures we will be drafting near the top again and will have a shot at the best QB coming out next year especially with the extra picks we will have to move up. Again it is JMO with some speculation.

Saw this today at Cleveland.com... I'll just post the link, the telling part is in reading down the two tables. The article pertains to the "success" of QBs chosen in the top 5 draft slots...

"Just 13 of the 30 quarterbacks have won a playoff game as a starter for their original team. Overall, they are 49-50 in the playoffs. More than a third of the wins are between the two Mannings."

http://www.cleveland.com/datacentral/index.ssf/2016/04/proof_that_picking_a_quarterba_1.html

I know everyone has differing opinions. To me, drafting a QB high is ALWAYS a crap shoot. Very happy with the trade with Philly regardless of how either QB pans out. This season we enter year five of Andrew Luck - the can't miss, the road to the promised land QB, the "generational" player. He's 3-3 in the playoffs. We are a long way from "knocking on the door" of the Superbowl, even if we put Luck on this roster today. I don't think either top QB in this years draft compares to Andrew Luck. If we can draft well this year and have decent QB play, we will be in a much better position to go "all-in" on a QB because of this trade.

Until the Browns actually start winning football games, there will always be things to complain about.

I try to be optimistic, I know that the next couple drafts could completely change our fortune if we draft well.. of course so could the last 3.. but we are still here hoping things will be different because we failed miserably in the last few drafts...

Here is to hoping things get better.

Hello all, been following the board for info for 4 or 5 years, but first time posting. I don't get to watch too many Browns games do to location so please excuse me if I'm a little lacking in the game to game play.

I see the need for a QB, but I think the bigger picture of building a solid foundation and picking up the franchise QB in the next year or two is the route they are looking at.
My big concern with drafting the future QB now would be similar to what happened with Couch. With a somewhat questionable line and lack of any real dangerous skill players I don't see that as a successful situation for a young QB, especially if they are going to be playing from behind and needing to be in passing situations for a good portion of the games.
The good thing I see with the trade is it can allow the team to build that foundation and take a few chances that they might hesitate to otherwise. With an extra 3rd and 4th rounder and 12 picks overall someone like Jaylon Smith might be a shot the team takes.

Mourg. Did you say Top 100 as being the cutoff for solid talent? Correct me if I'm wrong. Too lazy to find that post.

I believe about 70 is the cutoff where you really start going with potential major upside to potential decent player.

Now there will be some of those top 70 that will slide so the 3rds will help but I really want to get into that 2nd round to early first. There are starters to be had. Ass end of the draft is nto gonna produce much this year.

I know it didn't work so well in the past, but i would like to see us trade back into the 2nd round useing some of thouse middle round picks, perhaps even the 3rd (77) we received from the Eagles.

As many picks as we can get in the 2nd and early 3rd the better. Those later picks, hell with them. They would be nothing but pawns used to sacrifice so I can clear a path to take the piece i want. Unless I take Buckner at 8, I want Vernon Butler in the 2nd but I love the big back from Bama as well.

My draft philosophy is this: if you don't have a franchise QB, you need to do everything in your power to get one. If you fail, you try again next year.

It's funny how everyone always talks about the Rams/Redskins RGIII trade as though the Rams won it and how it's insane to trade that much for a QB.

That year, RGIII took the Redskins from 5-11 to 10-6 and the playoffs and won ROY. If it wasn't for his injury and subsequent falling apart, who knows what would've happened?

The Rams on the other hand haven't finished above .500 since even though the trade netted them a lot of productive players... and this year, Jeff Fisher did the exact opposite of the trade.

The lesson I take away from that is that you are ALWAYS in position to trade up for a QB because all the picks in the world mean nothing if you don't have one. So long as your roster isn't toxic to a QB (and our line is good enough that it's not), get your guy.

This trade will look great if RGIII revitalizes his career and becomes the franchise QB we need. If he doesn't though, it's going to look absolutely stupid. The NFL begins and ends with the quarterback... and we just passed on an opportunity to get 2 promising ones.

I want nothing to do with Lynch either. However, I see trading down to #15 a more likely scenario that they draft Lynch. I think #15 will be too late for Treadwell and too early for Doctson.

With both QB's going #1 and #2, I believe there will be talent at #8 that certainly won't be there at #15. A week ago, nobody thought Tunsil would be sitting there at #3. So now we will see talent sitting at #8 that many didn't consider possible before these trades.

What I find funny is that both Tenn. and the Browns stated there was interest from more than one team. So there were multiple teams vying to trade up for a QB. It wasn't just the Rams and Philly. So it appears there are multiple NFL FO's that believe that both Goff and Wentz are franchise QB's.

People better hope our FO is right and several other NFL FO's were wrong or they'll have to kick their excuse machines into overdrive.

I see it as about the same and think those early 3rd round picks could be gems depending on who falls.

We need to accumulate as many second round picks as we can to get the most out of this draft.

I want nothing to do with Lynch. Even before his Wonderlic came out, watching that dude in interviews after watching Goff and Wentz was an "Oh." moment. He's super nice but he seems like a dopey goofball. I just can't see him becoming a franchise guy given all the mental requirements of QBs in today's NFL. His Wonderlic would be the 2nd lowest of a starting QB in the NFL behind Tyrod Taylor (whom the Bills are actively looking to move on from). No thanks.

At this point, I'm resigned to punting QB until 2017 and hoping and praying RGIII pans out. I think it's terrible draft philosophy and that we should be coming out of this draft with either Goff (via trade up with Tenn before the Rams jumped it) or Wentz. But at this point, the last thing we need to be doing is taking ANOTHER lesser prospect and wasting that pick...or even worse, adding a player who might convince us we don't need to take QB at the top again like RGIII did this year. Maybe a developmental guy Day 3. But not Lynch at 8.

I'm fine sitting at 8 and taking BPA. At that point, there should still be elite talent available. If we're dropping down to Tennessee, I'd want a 1 back (either theirs or LA's, they can choose). If not, a 2nd rounder isn't worth it for me to move out of the top tier of this draft.

If the Rams take the QB and he turns out to be very good.. then the Rams will have done it exactly how you are supposed to do it.

When you are terrible, trade out of the top picks for quantity of picks, load up on some talent, then once you have a decent talent base, trade a bunch to go get your QB...

I agree ... The Rams have a good young nucleus of talent on their roster to support a young QB. I know not all of the players they drafted from the trade with the Redskins made them who they are today, but it sure gave them more swings at the plate.

Though I'm quite sure that this point will be lost in future debates about that trade.

You are looking at this the wrong way IMO. RGIII was good for one year of service in Washington, and for that, the Redskins gave up the draft farm. But RGIII wasn't the only quarterback they drafted that year. They also got Kirk Cousins later in that draft. Kirk Cousins is the guy who is moving their franchise forward, even making it to the playoffs earlier this year.

What would have happened, and where would the Redskins be now, if they had drafted talent with those picks they gave away, and gone with Cousins to begin with? They might not have made it to the playoffs that first year, but they would be a more solid team now. And given how weak the NFCE has been, they might have been to the playoffs multiple times already.

IMO, the mistake made by people here who think trading back was a bad move is assuming Goff and Wentz are both can't-miss prospects, and that there are no other QBs in this draft that a team can be successful with. Both of those things might turn out to be true, but they could as easily turn out to be false, and there's just no way to know right now.

I do think it's silly to assume the Browns FO doesn't know what it's doing, or that they don't have any football experience. The fact that the Browns FO structure is a little unconventional doesn't mean anything. Looking in from the outside, I find it encouraging for the Browns that your owner Jimmy Haslam did a clean sweep and started fresh with new FO and new coaching staff. That's exactly what Seahawks owner Paul Allen did after it became clear the team was dysfunctional in 2008/09. I had my doubts when our coach was hired before our GM, but it was the best thing that could possibly have happened seeing how things have turned out since then.

Yeah I think it's great. So when we need a QB we can give up the farm to get him. Makes perfect sense. Use a draft pick for a franchise QB now, or give up 2 #1's and a boatload more later.

#BrownsFansMath

Welcome ... Well said.

Paul Brown was considered unconventional in his time too.

Bill Belichick was as well.

Good point.

This is really getting old...But I'll say it again, That's assuming they think there is a Franchise QB in this draft. I really doubt they trade down if they thought that. On the other hand, why draft a QB now(at least in the first round) when you have yet to build the rest of the Team? My guess is they just don't see a QB worth taking that early. Is that so hard to understand?

That's basically everything in a nutshell.... The FO doesn't think there is a franchise guy that is deserving of taking at #2. . . . beginning, middle and end of story. If you think Wentz is a franchise guy - then you disagree with the F.O.'s assessment, so what?

The only question I guess I have is this - if you disagree with the FO - do you really want a management team and FO in place that doesn't pick players and make trades based on what they believe in? You'd rather they cave in and just go with the flow/popular choice?

The problem is that you're assuming we can just trade up and get the QB we want. Remember when Holmgren offered his entire draft to Grigson in a hot tub for Andrew Luck? If the team picking at the top needs a QB and likes the guy, you're out of luck... and that's often the case. It just so happened that this year, the team picking #1 already has a young stud QB and were willing to move the pick.

What we should do is evaluate our current position, see whether or not we're positioned to get a QB and if we are, go and get him. We were in position this year. We traded out of it. Fortunately we're going to be absolutely awful next year so we could easily be in the position again.

There's a chance we aren't. What if, for example, SF is worse than us this year and Chip Kelly falls in love with the only good QB prospect? If we have all these picks and find ourselves in a position where we can't get a QB, we're going to look and feel very stupid.

A few comments recently coming from the Eagles has made me wonder if they may be targeting somebody other than a QB. Smoke screen perhaps but, what if they don't take the obvious? Who would they potentially be targeting if it weren't a QB?

Also been wondering if SF will take Lynch (too high for him?) or if NYJ try to move higher to get him. I'm happy at 8...I don't want to trade further down (to 20).

no it's not hard to understand and I agree. my guess is they like Dak Prescott and can get him in rounds 3 or 4? read somewhere...don't remember where, that Prescott has similar skill set to RGIII and would not have to change playbook for one QB or the other. Plug and play QB in the system? sounds logical if accurate.

Yep. I hate that school of thought. It's why I said stick at 2 and take the QB NOW. We've got Griffin. Let Wentz sit this year and build the team up the next 2 years. That's this years draft, next years FA and draft.

I understand this isn't a draft where Luck is there and there's no way the team at #1 is trading out. But both these guys are viable options and we just blew our wad.

This is my problem with those who think it's so easy to move up and get your QB next year. Or the year after. I don't care how much AMMO we've accumulated. Virtually every year the teams drafting 1 or 2 suck because they don't have a decent QB. It's the nature of the beast.

So we can call and call and call and call all day long about moving up. Most likely the answer will be NO if there's a top QB in that draft. And even that's not a given.

We just made it extremely difficult to get a top QB in a future draft by moving down. That sucks. Unless we suck so bad this year and end up at 1 or 2 and PRAY the team ahead of us has a QB already. That sucks. And we better PRAY there's even a QB worth the 1 or 2 pick. That sucks. And if the team at 1 already has a QB, then we're gonna need to move to #1 because you can bet your ass someone below us will try to. So it's gonna cost us much more than just Philly's 1st next year. And that sucks. This whole thing SUCKS.

Now cue the dreamers thinking we can get a solid QB later in the draft. ANY draft.

Not me. I set out to prove to everybody that I am the dumbest guy in the room, and it didn't take me long to prove it

Agree w you two, 100%. If the front office thought both of those guys were franchise QBs, they would have stayed at #2. If they thought one of them was, then they would have had this trade worked out with Philly now, but waited to see who the Rams took before pulling the trigger, in case they one we thought was a franchise guy was not the one who went #1.

Being the best QB in the draft does not make you a franchise QB. One team thinking a guy is a franchise QB does not make him a franchise QB. Someone on this board thinking a guy is a franchise QB does not make him a franchise QB.

It's not so hard to understand. But they'd better be right. Is that so hard to understand?

Multiple teams have tried to move up to #1 and #2 for these QB's. If you're sold that our rookie FO is smarter than all of those other teams, then more power to you. I'm not so sure.

People keep talking about "build the team first". Once that's done we'll be middle of the pack and it will cost a fortune to move up. So not only had they better be right this time, they better be right next time too.

And that's asssuming a team at the top of the draft isn't QB starved. Then there's no hope of moving up. Some people act as though all you have to do is want a QB to get him. That's simply not so.

There's a difference between a prospect and a project. This fan base seems overjoyed at projects time and time again. I'm just not feeling it.

You are advocating taking a player that the team doesn't like second overall. That seems like just about the worst thing we can do.

So you think the "others" are right - and this FO is wrong? Are you stating that as your definite opinion? Or are you just voicing concerns and angst based on our sorry history of the last 16 years?. . .

I get the concern, but firstly everyone makes mistakes in the draft. Everyone. Some have fewer mistakes than others. People use guys like Brady taken in the 6th round as an example of how others are genius and we aren't .... personally I think guys like Brady prove how NONE of the FO's are geniuses and faultless.... every team and FO passed on Brady 5 times or more....that means none really had a clue what his potential was.

I hope like heck that the FO don't make a mistake [1] with passing on Wentz and [2] with whoever they select with the #8 pick or the picks they get if they trade down again ... but they get a lot of latitude and all my support until the prove to be incompetent like Farmer.

I couldn't put it better.

Definite opinion? Based on what? There's no resume of these guys ever running a draft. That's why a definite opinion in either direction would be foolish. I'm simply pointing out that several other NFL FO's feel differently and our FO better hope they're right.



You are correct. But you are also talking about a 6th rounder that many overlooked. Not a #2 selection in the draft. We have a team that hasn't had a franchise QB in 16 years. We were told that a franchise QB was their #1 priority. We had the #2 pick in the draft. Many claim that Hue is a QB guru. So if they get this wrong, it flies in the face of everything we really need and were told.



Guys who get paid seven figures to put a team together aren't going to get a lot of latitude from me. I don't know that they made a mistake so I'm not trying to claim they did. I find it odd however that people seem to get so defensive when the facts are presented to them.

It is a fact that several teams looked to trade up for both of these QB's. It is a fact that our fan base was wrong about that. It is a fact that since sportswriters didn't ooze about Goff and Wentz, our fan base doesn't seem to consider how actual NFL FO's view these two prospects. It is a fact that NFL FO's with experience wanted our #2 pick for a QB yet our inexperienced FO didn't. So the fact that I said these things are simple truths.

That doesn't mean our FO is wrong. What it does mean is we better all hope they are right. And I don't believe the question is whether they should have drafted a QB they didn't like. The question is are they right in that evaluation. You see, that's the entire question.

People can argue back and forth all they want. However, anyone who thinks the opposing opinion is whacked, might want to reexamine things.

I approve of the trade. I said trading down would be good a long time ago. However, I am not going to criticize other posters for being upset that the Browns made the trade.

Let's face it.............what track record has this FO established that would make one confident that they can properly evaluate talent?

I am not saying they can't, but you guys have no proof that they can, so it is ridiculous to ridicule people who have an opposing opinion. Of course, that's probably good for the board.

And the thing is Vers, I'm not saying this FO was wrong. But what I am saying is that it could go either way. That this is the first big test to find out their ability or lack there of to evaluate QB talent. It's the first possibility they have had to possibly get a franchise QB or dodge the bullet of over drafting a QB. My point is that there's evidence that it could go either way.

For everyone's sake I hope they got it right. But people can be so defensive. And you know me well enough that I have to see the humor in that. lol

I really wanted Wentz, but when the FO traded down I assumed that the FO and Hue did not think that either the QB they wanted was going to be there or they didn't think either QB is who they wanted. So I support the FO and what they are doing.

Next the things you claim are facts are not facts unless you hear it from a primary source i.e. another organizations FO, but you have not heard that from any of the FO (that they wanted to move up to select one of the QBs) you have heard it from media people who claim that they get their information from "reliable sources"; however, we don't know who those sources are.

I am not saying that the media people are necessarily lying either as they may just be putting out there what their sources want to be put out there. It is a big crap shoot. And now with so called reports saying that Philly may not even be targeting a QB. The point is no one knows what is going on behind the scene.

Our FO may be wrong for having traded out of #2 or they may be right, but to say they had better be right makes it sound like you have some control over them if they make the wrong choice. And that you will do something is they are. Craziness. I understand the frustration, but we really don't have control over what happens. Just saying.

No - Brady was an example of how everyone makes mistakes. How there are no sure fire GM's or FO organizations that hit on every pick. . . I wasn't comparing Brady to anyone else or any other selection.

I can't tell what you're really trying to say - maybe it's as simple as "they better be right" ... which I sort of get. I hope they are right too. Everyone does. SHow me someone who thinks they hope they are wrong?

Personally I don't care about any other FO or what they want or don't want - other than a team that wants to trade for our pick and then I hope we get as much out of the deal as possible every time.

Again - beating a dead horse - the organization didn't think Wentz was worth a #2 pick. . . . Do you want them to select a player because other teams like Wentz? Or do what they believe is right? And of course - whatever they decide - yes, they had better be right otherwise is the result is the Browns lost more ground.

If you select few don't believe there will be severe repercussions if in fact it ends up this FO has thrown away an opportunity to land a franchise QB, I don't believe you understand how this all works. We have people making seven digit salaries to get these things right. Those who get them wrong end up out of work. It's the nature of the business. If you want success and continuity, yes, you better hope they get it right.



I don't care what they think. Only if what they think is right. It's all about whether their evaluation is correct or not. Only time will tell.

I will say this:

I support the trade. Both of the top qbs worried me a bit. I think it was a good move to trade down.

However, if the Browns keep trading down and end up w/a bunch of marginal guys and nobodies and that second overall pick, whether it be Wentz or Goff, turns out to be a stud........

Not arguing, just making a point...

When it all shakes out it's still uncertain who is right or wrong. A QB can be a good fit for one team but not a good fit for another. So one team takes him while another has passed on him. They can both be right.

Is Tom Brady destined to be the Tom Brady we all know without Bill Belichick? To get into multiple Superbowls the whole team has to be handled right with the right supporting talent, the right scheme and both sides of the ball have to be right. It's not just the talent of the QB. Of course it helps, but there's so much more to it.

I don't think it's solely on the QB for his success or lack of it so much as it's a reflection of the team he ends up on. One team may handle him right, another may not. One team might fit a square peg in a square hole while another may take the same QB trying to fit the square peg in a round hole. To me it's every bit as much about the team as it is the quality of the QB alone.

I already said that I didn't view either QB worth #2 overall, but if the QB whisperer wanted one at #2, I'd shut up and be happy.

Looks like they didn't and I'm feeling better that they didn't than if they did.

I don't have a problem with the trade as long as Hue and the FO don't think Wentz are Goff can be the guy but if they traded down just because they wanted to build the team first then I think they made a mistake. When you get the opportunity to get your QB you take it because you don't know how things are gonna work out. When they get the team built up what if there is no QB that is a top player in that draft, also they will probably be picking a little later in the draft so we will probably have to give up a ton of picks to move up to get a QB.