DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Team, Right Now

Thanks Mac, I'll look into them and post what I find.

What we saw last year is a betrayal of the game.

Mock from first pick where things kinda (unrealistically) broke my way:

Round 1 Pick 8: DeForest Buckner, DE/DT, Oregon (A+)
Round 2 Pick 1: Emmanuel Ogbah, DE/OLB, Oklahoma State (B+)
Round 3 Pick 2: Rashard Higgins, WR, Colorado State (A-)
Round 3 Pick 14: Karl Joseph, SS/FS, West Virginia (A)
Round 4 Pick 1: Cardale Jones, QB, Ohio State (A)
Round 4 Pick 2: Joe Haeg, OT, North Dakota State (B+)
Round 4 Pick 40 (COMP): Malcolm Mitchell, WR, Georgia (A+)
Round 5 Pick 2: Joe Schobert, OLB/ILB, Wisconsin (B-)
Round 5 Pick 33 (COMP): Keith Marshall, RB, Georgia (A-)
Round 5 Pick 34 (COMP): KeiVarae Russell, CB, Notre Dame (C-)
Round 6 Pick 1: Mike Thomas, WR, Southern Mississippi (C-)
Round 7 Pick 2: Darion Griswold, TE, Arkansas State (B)

Good post all around, kinda like a mini-version of a 'war room' discussion.

And in that regard for me I think there will be better players on the board @ 8. But then again waiting til pick 32 proly means missing out on the top 3/4 guys(Tread,Doc,Cole/Fuller). Without moving up from 32 or back from 8 I think the conversation becomes how comfortable is the staff with the 'second' tier WRs including whomever falls from the first group and Tyler Boyd/Michael Thomas.

My gut tells me they'll move down from 8.

You mean at pick 32? I guess I would be okay with Spence there although I like Ogbah better. I'm always down for rolling the dice on a pass rusher.

Addressing RT, is a priority in my book. Having the best OL possible is key to having any kind of offense. If they stay at 8, I'm looking at Tunsil, Stanley or Conklin.

I agree that there are some thumper/SILB like the guys you mentioned BJ Goodson too. But the WILB or playmaking ILB imo are in short supply. I also like Schoebert as conversion guy to ILB.

I love KJ Dillon, for me there isn't much separation between him and Joseph. I like Powell way more then most draftniks (I've even heard some teams are thinking of him as a CB) and I think Kevin Byard is another guy I like but I think he'll go much higher then the draftniks expect.

Agreed, Kevarie Russell for me

But for me after Buckner and Rankings there is depth quality depth but not the scheme diverse guys that be stout against the run and give some interior push/penetration.

The Colts did it and it netted them Andrew Luck and a huge turnaround for their franchise. Unless people wish to argue that Curtis Painter was the best QB they could have fielded that season.

That shows that it's been done successfully.

This is not the year to tank. The year to tank is the 2017 season.

The Rosen One.

If there is an absolutely surefire franchise guy, like Luck was, then yeah, I can kinda see tanking. However, I think that has to happen in the final year before a complete roster tear down, when you are going to be dumping a ton of guys, and not in the 1st year of the rebuild. You don't want to amass a ton of draft picks, bring in a ton of new guys, and start your future off with a tanked season.

Probably the single biggest reason to blow things up and start over.

Face it, we have some pieces, but we just aren't talented enough. I don't know any other way to get better than to do a better job of finding replacements. However you can.

I do think that Thomas and Greco will survive this season, I don't expect them to both be here for next year.

But really, it's all just guess work.. I have NO inside info.

Are you sure?

If history repeats itself.. It would be the 2nd year for this regime.. they would tank..get canned.. we hire a whole new group, that doesn't know crap about taking a QB... so we then trade our #1 and lose out on a possible really great QB....

I was just being funny with this post... after reading it.. I started crying because it looks so real !!!

Tanking this season may very well be something planned by the coaching staff & higher ups, but never to be admitted or talked about.

Look how upset many of the fans were when we didn't resign our free agents. Maybe one of the reasons we didn't resign them was the Browns staff in fact want to do worse so we get better draft picks next time around?

We signed RG3, but look how bad he got. Who else wanted him?

Tanking the season? It just might be the unsaid plan. (Hmmmmmmm, I wonder..... )

'Why the Cleveland Browns must tank in 2016: It's time they lose with purpose'

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2016/04/why_the_cleveland_browns_must.html

If we suck? We are definitely going to suck. The people running the team just need to keep the noise out and continue on with their plan.

Seasons are never tanked until maybe week 13.

I find it incredulous that we are talking about possibly tanking the 2016 and 2017 seasons. Really folks? I refuse to believe this scenario; I absolutely reject this notion.
If I ever found out that this was in play, I would be soooo out of here...

On a practical level I don't know how the organization could implement the tank strategy. They would have to get cooperation from key players or they would have to have "coaches decisions" that are glaring attempts to weaken the team competitively. All of that sounds like point shaving. The Browns have suffered many embarassments but that's an indictment this franchise could never live down.

It's going to be hard to tank a season when you are probably going to win 6-8 games.

j/c:

The Browns did not re-sign their best free agents this off season. They released two productive, older, higher-priced vets. Most people were okay w/that and said the Browns were "tearing the roster down."

May I ask what is the difference between "tearing the roster down" and/or "starting over" from "tanking?"

6-8 games? How did you come up w/that number?

Last year you said we would win 11. We won 3.

This upcoming year, the Browns will field a roster that is far worse than last year's roster. So, how are they going to double or almost triple last year's win total?

To me, tanking is intentionally losing games. Losing games because you're not as talented as your opponent is not tanking. It's just ineptitude.

Now, gutting your roster for the sole purpose of being bad as opposed to gutting it in order to rebuild could be seen as tanking (Major League).

I don't think there is a difference. The FO has already tanked the season. People might not like the word "tanking," but it's no different than starting over and trying to get more draft picks.

We have to remember that no matter what.......teams will NEVER get the players to "tank" the season or buy into "playing for better draft picks."

The damage--or foundation--has already occurred.

Frankly, I was very surprised to see reactions like 32's. People were okay w/letting all of those guys go. What did they expect to happen on the field next year? That a bunch of rookies were going to make the team respectable?

Nah, the FO tanked the season during the FA period. Acquiring more picks for the second pick is part of that plan. Suck now.......reap rewards later.

The plan is clear. It will be interesting to see if it works or not and how patient the fans, the media, and Jimmy Haslam are when the team completely sucks on the field for the next 2-3 years.

We saw how fast the love affair w/Farmer and Pet ended after just one 3-win season. Imagine winning 0 to 4 games for 3 straight years?

We saw how fast the love affair w/Farmer and Pet ended after just one 3-win season. Imagine winning 0 to 4 games for 3 straight years?


I think the love affair ended when we got worse and Farmer and Pet seemed to be at odds with each other.

j/c

one of the reasons I wanted to stay at 2 and draft a QB (without knowing if Goff/Wentz will even be good) is that at least it gives us SOME semblance of hope. as of right now this is the most hopeless I've felt with the Browns since 99. It's like there is no light at the end of the tunnel

DELETED for profanity

Dawgs you and everyone else on this board has a right to feel as they want about this team. I feel that we have started to at least have a plan and are building a foundation. Right now I am looking for us to have a good draft and sign some promising UFA. Get as many young guys in here who want to succeed and are willing to work to get there. Hopefully this team will make progress from game 1 to game 16. That IMO is the goal, get better as the season goes along, show improvement. We have a plan stick to it not like in the past where we changed every 2 years. With good draft choices and all the picks we have along with solid coaching this team can be better sooner than later.

I see see wins because I don't think we are going to lose much on the O-line. I don't see where losing Dansby and Whitner is going to be something we can't overcome. We also have a new coaching staff. Face it, Pet and crew lost control last year. They did little to help the team win games. I see this new staff being able to teach and motivate.

We need a receiver, but losing Banji was no disaster.

I also think RGIII got exactly what he needed, a fresh start. I don't think the kid is washed up and he very well could be our QB as we move in to the next 5 years.

6-8 wins is delusional. It really wouldn't even be good long term. But the frustrating thing is that we were 7-9 two years ago, and some of us, like me for instance, thought we were on the way up. It turned out to be smoke, mirrors and an easy schedule. And whatever positive strides we were making were completely undone by brutal picking in the draft.
Vers is right, they ARE tanking next season now. You can't intentionally lose once the season starts. But you can set yourself up for a shot at No. 1 overall. Look at what it costs to trade up from No. 8 to No. 2 and tell me why you should strive to be a non-playoff, .500 team when you don't have the pieces in place for a real turnaround.

The cowboys did the same thing in the late 80's when JJ bought the team and cleaned house. They had a lot of draft picks from the Herschel Walker trade and made the most of it. If I remember correctly they were in the super bowl in 4 or 5 years after all this. I'm not saying it will happen to us but with the right moves it can happen.

I will say that I have a tad more optimism because this FO seems to have a long-range plan ... but I've thought that to be the case in the past as well.

I'm just very tired of having the worst (and most embarrassing) team in the NFL ... and it'll take a LONG time for this to turn around IMO

The same people suggesting we "tank" the season, are same ones who will be bashing the team all season if it happens. This crap comes up every year.

I believe that is the unsaid plan. It will be brilliant if it works and if not? Same old Browns, but a bit worse for a season or two. I bet it will work.... (Okay, I'm not actually betting any money, so don't ask. lol)


I honestly think it will work.

I feel that way too. In the past the new regimes had a plan, whatever it may have been, but this regime seems to have a more in depth and long range one. We'll see, time will tell.

no doubt bro

Who is "suggesting" the Browns tank the season?

This "crap" comes up every year? Really? It sure didn't last year. People who questioned the talent of the rosterwere being insulted to the point of most of them quit posting.

And the same people will be bashing the Browns during the season? LOL.......now that is priceless. Actually, the same people who were go ga-ga over Farmer and Pet before the season were killing both of those guys as the season wore on.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but yours are completely biased.

I hope it works, too. In order for it to work:

--they are going to have to do a great job of evaluating talent

--stick to the plan

--be allowed by Haslam to see the plan through.

The last one is the one that concerns me the most.

Agreed. And I'd add be given SOME slack by the fans. I realize there are always going to be comments and criticism when the team is 2-14 or whatever ... but the FO must not allow the fans to dictate anything and the fans have to show some level of patience (me included haha)

j/c

I was doing some research on the coaching staff to get a better feel for them and found that since 2009 Hue has been a part of game planning against the Browns 11 times, Horton 6 plus 1 year here as DC, and Pep 2 times. I'd think that would give them a pretty good idea of what the strengths and weaknesses are of most of the players on the roster. I know it's not going to be the same as seeing the day in and day out of the team, but planning to exploit the weaknesses of our roster has to give them a leg up when walking into this situation.

Since the Courtney Brown pick, I've had the complaint that the Browns were bad.. just not bad enough to get a top pick that they could do something with. We were always trading up.. seemingly thinking that we were 1 player away from the playoffs. Browns traded up to get Manziel... traded up to get Richardson.. traded up to get Brady Quinn.. traded up to get Kellen Winslow II...

Trade downs were to get Alex Mack ( twice ) and Kam Wimbley (giving up the chance to get Ngata).

Only the Mack trade (trade down) and the Winslow trade seem to have worked out.. and I'm not too sure about Winslow considering who we could have had we stayed put. None of the trades had the impact of this trade down from #2 with the Eagles, primarily because of what the Browns did with the picks. The trades down to get Mack could have been historic, but ended up being blah.. ( netted Phil Taylor.. Weeden.. )

My point is why trade up or even hold onto a top 5 pick unless you are not one or two players away from the playoffs? Why pay for high priced Free Agents unless you are 1 or 2 players away from the playoffs? I hate to trade the number 8 pick, but 2 gain 2 or three more top 100 picks in the draft... hmmmm.. we were 3 - 13 in 2015.. why not ? Better to have 9 picks in the top 100 than 7 in 7 rounds (224 picks + compensatory picks).

As many have said.. we were 3 - 13.. seems like we have been for years.. The Browns need a talent infusion.. go get it...

I don't know how many games they're gonna win, but I think they're going to better then people expect.

I think the new front office and coaching staff will provide better leadership and better coaching. Imho football is the one sport where those 2 elements can make a world of difference.

I agree some good talent walked out the door this off season but I don't think those loses are a huge set-back because last years management wasted that talent en-route to a 3-13 record. I would further add that good teams make those types of decisions all the time. I understand not wanting to pay the cost for veterans like Dansby and Whitner. Schwartz we'll ever team/FO makes mistakes AND he was set to make imo more money then he was worth. But to be clear losing him does create a hole.
Dansby was replaced by D.Davis. Whit is being replaced by Campbell a rook that has showed ability in limited snaps. And Robertson to Kirksey is a push and could prove to be an improvement.

This team has holes, no doubt. But, I've seen teams with less talent win more then 3 games. AND this offseason if properly executed could add some talent that should be able to contribute right away.

But, at the end of the day I think the real difference will be the vision and coaching provided by this new staff.

If a couple of rooks contribute and the scheme get more then the previous staff then is 6 wins seems reasonable to me.

Vegas has us as underdogs in every game.
http://mweb.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-foo...mes-this-season

The Browns are so bad, they're not favored to win any games this season
By John Breech / CBSSports.com
April 23, 2016 12:24 PM ET
If you plan on making a trip out to Las Vegas at any point during the 2016 NFL season, here's some early gambling advice for you: Don't bet on the Browns.

Now, that's solid gambling advice almost every season, but it's especially true this season.

As of right now, the Browns are set to be an underdog in every regular season game they play this year. We know that thanks to CG Technology, a Las Vegas sportsbook that just released its points spreads for the first 16 weeks of the NFL season.

The first week of the season might be the ugliest. The Browns are going up against a team with a new coach (Doug Pederson) and an unsettled quarterback situation, but they're still 7.5-point underdogs.

Overall, the Browns are at least touchdown underdogs in nine of their 15 games. The point spreads for Week 17 haven't been released yet, but you can bet the Browns will be an underdog in that game, because they're playing in Pittsburgh.

The biggest spread comes in Week 7, when the Browns are 11.5-point underdogs against the Bengals.

The closest the Browns come to being favored in a game? That will come in Week 16, when they're only a two-point underdog at home against the Chargers.

Of course, if you have faith in Robert Griffin as a quarterback and the Browns' ability to intelligently use their draft picks, then this would be the perfect time to bet on Cleveland. Being a nine-point underdog to the Bills seems like a lot right now.

Anyway, for this year only, the Browns should probably change the name of the Dawg Pound to the Underdawg Pound, and this guy should probably be their mascot.