DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2016 NFL Season 2016 NFL Draft Conner Cook

As I said in my original post, "in the NFL."

And that is why I asked you about if you thought it was easier to have a higher completion percentage in the NFL? Because, if not, that stat is pretty much meaningless when examining Cook's collegiate percentage.

Says you. I say it has meaning and I don't have to say why.

(I was making a joke about Bortles. It obviously failed.)

j/c

Is it not a rule-of-thumb that the completion % drops 10% from college to the NFL...

I have never heard that.

Neither have I........

I do know that a lot of times the completion percentage of college qbs is inflated due to all the bubble screens and similar passes they throw.

Didn't Colt have the all-time highest percentage in college?

Never heard of that either.

All the QBs I mentioned in the previous post comp% went up in the NFL.

To me this either nullifies the point you were trying to make or make you a hypocrite *shrugs*

If you discard information simply by deeming that it 'don't count' then you can win any argument.
I haven't looked at the % as it relates to QB success. But my thought is this...since most QBs fail and the majority of QBs comp% is above your noted comp% that its likely that more QBs with comp% above your mark fail then not. *shrugs*

Not sure if serious.......

Every QB prospect has flaws/questions.

Suffice it to say I see Cook much differently from you. Its odd for me to hear you knock Cook stating you think he got worse then in the same post champion Hackenberg.

In response to you're (I think ?) main critique against Cook. I have no issues with his completion %. When I watch his tape I understand why his comp% is "low" and it doesn't bother me at all. I don't see a QB that avoids contact to the extent that its an issue at all. Yes, I agree that Cook tries to 'arm' throw more then he should given his armstrength but its not like the result is a bunch of interceptions. Some QBs throw off their backfoot more then others, off the top of my head some guys in the pros: Cam Newton, Flacco and Cutler come to mind and I don't think any of them is scared to take a hit.

I think Cook could have a higher comp% if he checked it down more or attempted safer passes. But, IF that is his biggest flaw then in my view that's an easy coaching fix; especially when compared to some other QBs flaws/question marks.

If you're going to play that dumbass semantics game I am not going to debate it with you. You know exactly my point in discarding McCoy and Brennan.

Your style seems very familiar, what was your previous user name?

Well if you're gonna........lol. Sure, you're gonna discard information out of hand because it doesn't suit your point then start huffing and puffing? Sweet I thank you. Lets me know not to bother.

Cheers.

Yeah, if you can't draw a distinction from Connor Cook and Colt McCoy and why I would discard those percentages I don't even want you to bother because you're wasting my time.

and you're definitely not new to this board, I can sense your smug bullshit, which is why I've spent so much time away from this board. Playing ignorant to try and discredit me somehow just makes you look stupid not me. That is a style that only this board can generate.

Not trying to be a board cop, but you keep replying to bonefish, who started this thread, but I *think* you are really replying to edromeo. Stop using the damn quick reply window at the bottom of the page and just click reply to the person you are replying to. God, I hate the quick reply window - I never know who's talking to who any more.

I feel the same about that 'quick reply' thing. It gets confusing sometimes.

I love it. It makes things much more convenient.

You would.

That's BS and totally uncalled for. My suspenders aren't red.

While that is true, look at his splits.

He throws down the field a lot more than the average NFL QB. Those are lower percentage passes, while also being higher impact passes.

He was tied for 2nd in the NFL with 35 TD passes. Despite completing only 58% of his passes, he average 7.31 yards/attempts. His pass protection was not very good, and his run game and defense stunk.

Man, I wish we had him on the Browns.

Check out Gruden going "all in" for Cook:

"He's gonna be I think perhaps the best quarterback in this year's draft," Gruden said, via Cleveland.com.

Really? "...I think perhaps..." Easy Jon.

More reading on Connor Cook here (Connor says three teams really like him).

Gruden's never found a QB he hates, Tab. His talent evaluation skills for QBs makes Dwight Clark look like a genius. Gruden went through nine different QBs in Tampa, and he couldn't hit on any of them.

Except for the one Brad Johnson year, that is correct.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JohnBr00/gamelog/2002/

We also shouldn't forget Rich Gannon.

I'm mocking his usage of "I think perhaps". Come on, if he's the best QB in the draft, say it and stand by it. Don't drop a "perhaps" into the statement.

Perhaps = used to express uncertainty or possibility (used when one does not wish to be too definite or assertive in the expression of an opinion.) I don't put this in here to mock your understanding of the word, just showing Jon doesn't know.

If he wants to go "all in", do it. By dropping the "perhaps", he's giving himself room on the other QBs. Analysts are paid to be provocative and persuasive on their opinions. He's being wishy-washy.

And yes, in general, Jon likes EVERY QB that comes through his camp. I don't bother watching his breakdown of a QB because it's worthless. It's all candy and butterflies. They're all "gamers" and they all have the "skills to excel at the next level".

I always figured Gannon and Johnson elevated their play due to the talent around them. Gruden, with the help of crazy uncle Al Davis, assembled a nice team for Callahan. Dungy built the team that Gruden ended up winning with.

I do sort of like the idea of Cook, but the problems with his mechanics on 0-10 yard throws concern me. I don't want another Derek Anderson who can't grow his game.

Can't take Gruden anaylysis' serious. He hypes everyone he brings onto his show. QB's wouldn't agree to the invite if he didnt

I think you have to know how to listen to Gruden. He does praise the guys, but you have to listen for the subtleties in his analysis.

And the guy is no babbling idiot. He played the position in college. He was highly regarded as a coach. He is employed by ESPN, who has a ton of people working for them who have either played the position or coached the position, and he is their lead guy regarding QBs.

You guys generalize and trash people as if we are the real experts. It's old.

Put it this way...............do any of us get paid more than Gruden to do that job?

I agree.

For some reason My DVR tapes womens softball over the Connor Cook episode. So I really don't have a frame of reference on how he interviewed Cook.

An example of the subtleties in the show. He takes Goff, Wentz and Hackenberg to the board to have them draw up plays....but he did not do that on his show with Cardale Jones? Why?


He belabors the emphasis on Hackenberg trusting his protection, why?


He Belabors Carson Wentz "Launching spots", he even painted the ground with spray paint showing him where to throw from? Why?


It's not the things Gruden says, it's the things he leads you to and doesn't say.

I did not "trash" him.. I said i dont take his analysis serious. And justifiably so.

I wasn't just talking to you.

I trust his analysis over a lot of the people knocking him, and justifiably so.

Good points.

A couple of years ago, I really wanted the Browns to draft Bridgewater. While Gruden praised him on the show, he said a few things that made me think he wasn't as high on Teddy as I was. Things about "try to really zip the ball in there this time." "Bark out the signals like Andrew Luck." Etc

He's just real subtle w/his criticisms. You have to pay attention. I actually like that he does not embarrass college kids on national tv. If you are smart enough and actually listen instead of thinking you know everything, you can learn from his takes.

I'm not mocking his QB knowledge either. He's obviously an expert (college, pro, coaching, etc.). I'm just mocking his "wishy-washiness" and how, like you explain, his QB breakdowns are staged events between him, ESPN, the agent, and the QB. While Jon may give him something to improve on, generally, it's a fluff piece.

If that's what he's going for, then fine. However, I think we all expect him to tell it like it is, but he's holding back.

As for his prediction, again, if Cook is the best, say he's the best. I won't throw it in his face 5 years from now if he turns out to be wrong. I won't remember for one and two, I realize nobody really knows right now.

I bag on Wilbon all the time when he pushes or refuses to pick a winner. It's just a prediction, go for it. "Team A will win if Player X is hot, but then again, Team B might win if Player Y get his game together". That's just wasted air if you ask me.

I will say, I only started to pick up on Gruden's subtleties when I watched Weeden's QB camp after he was out or on his way out of town. The little subtle criticisms started showing, and I watch for them now.

It can go both ways though, since we can't know for sure what he means.

But, imo you can really tell when he likes a QB. QBs that it stuck out to me that he liked...Russell Wilson, Ryan Tannehill, Derek Carr, Blake Bortles and yes Tim Tebow and JFF.

No one said he bats 1000.

And JFF well that's a special drug/boozed addled case.

Tebow well...

I thought Gruden was effusive in his praise of Cook.

He made some comments in the Manziel interview that voiced his concerns. You just had to listen for them.

Concerns yeah, but on the whole though wouldn't you say he liked JFF a lot?