|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
No. Mostly EO but a lot of posters have been saying that tripe forever.  If it's so fricken easy to find a stud RB then why haven't we had one since Leroy Kelly. I watched Kelly run when I was a kid. Not old enough to have seen Brown live. LONG time since we've ahd great there. Long time since we've had great at any skill position. QB? Kosar and that's pushing the term a bit. RB? Kelly. WR? Man, I'd have to say Warfield..... Sure would be nice to change that someday. ONLY great player since the return? JT and he's getting a bit long in the tooth. He's still great but he won't be by the time this team is ready to roll even IF they do this right.... I am in agreement that we shouldn't be trading down over and over for average we should be shooting for GREAT if possible. Pass rusher, RB whatever. I'd be cool with a LT as long as he's great like JT. But moving down again would bug me. None? I know a Mack, Byner, 2 Pruits and a Lewis that would disagree with that. Um, I would say that Mack, Byner, and Mike and Greg Pruit were all very good backs for the Browns. Never saw Kelly; however, you cannot plop Lewis in with the first four because he was not great or even very good with us. Overall in his career that may be an arguable point, but not as a member of the Browns.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,386
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,386 |
1300 yds and 4.38 a carry on a pretty bad team isn't something to sneeze at but yeah he definitely was on the decline with us.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,805
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,805 |
Alright. Here we go. We hold the cards at 32. Numerous 1st rounders fell.
Pass Rusher on the board is Spence. (Impact?)
I really like Ragland. What was that Red Flag that was mentioned by ESPN yesterday? Anyone remember? I love this guy. Brings some nastiness to the middle.
We can't go wrong here. Take BPA, all the guys that dropped are needs. What about the DT's that fell. I love DT's moved outside in a 3-4.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,805
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,805 |
Enlarged Aorta. The former Alabama linebacker was flagged for an enlarged aorta and some NFL clubs have lowered Ragland on their draft boards as a result, people close to the player and officials with seven teams told NFL Media insider Ian Rapoport. The seven teams don't see the condition as something that will affect his football career, however, and consider it something that will merely bear close watching, Rapoport added. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...-enlarged-aortaTake Ragland.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
I would go Spence, Dodd, or Ogbah here. Maybe Ragland.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 276
2nd String
|
|
2nd String
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 276 |
Its obvious the team refuses to pick the top guys.
They refuse to pay top salary,for top talent.
They trade down every year,and chose players,off their draft board from hell.
Wake up people..we will never have a competitive team.
50 years of sadness.SSDD
Thanks art!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
The top guys were off the board when the 8th pick came up. One could argue for Hargreaves, but that wasn't a bad trade down.
Now..........I guess one could argue for staying at 2 and taking Wentz, but it's a bit of a reach to complain about what they did at 8.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,620
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 5,620 |
The top guys were off the board when the 8th pick came up. One could argue for Hargreaves, but that wasn't a bad trade down.
Now..........I guess one could argue for staying at 2 and taking Wentz, but it's a bit of a reach to complain about what they did at 8. Agree 100%. With Ramsey and Bosa gone, and Zeke too I guess, I really couldn't get that excited about the #8 pick. Thought we got good value in the trade. I like the 2nd rounder next year, we already have 12 picks this year. 7 in the top 100 now. We needed a WR and even after moving down we had first choice at the position. I like the Coleman pick. I don't think it's fair to call him a Benji replacement, as some are doing, I think he is more. He plays with an attitude, and is physical. We needed the speed. I heard some on Treadwell about losing focus. That montage they showed last night made him look like Braylon. Yikes.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 17,475 |
Spirit the discussion was that we actually invested in OL and got good ones. But it won't help.
You are correct - What playmakers and we invested in 9 impact picks for one. KJ, Northcutt, QM, Davis, BE, Little, Robo, MoMass, Gordon.
The discussion at the moment was wasting a pick due to history on OL...when look at all the wasted attempts at playmaker?
Now we have made the pick and not at #8...Oddly it was OL that went at 8 and they gave up a lot to get there. We took our Playmaker at #14. Lets hope our new guys do something that NONE of the others did before. My litmus test on the new Analytic guys...previous 9 attempts as we said, Nada Zilch, Zip... it would say a lot that we got one with their first try!
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 4,041
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 4,041 |
Pick 32: Trade down with the intent to have enough 3rd round ammo to get pack into the bottom of the 2nd
Picking at 32:
Designated pass rusher 1 (RDE/ROLB) = Emmanuel Ogbah, Noah Spence, Kevin Dodd
Left cornerback = Mackenzie Alexander CB Clemson
-I wonder why he's falling. By pure grade I have him ahead of the remaining pass rushers.
But which is better for this team? A hit at edge rusher or a hit at CB?
Other 2nd round options:
Defensive tackle = Jonathan Bullardone of the last of the 5-tech DE/3-tech DL that can provide interior pressure, Kenny Clark, Chris Jones
Tight End = Hunter Henry
Free Safety = Kevin Byard
ILB = Miles Jack
Right tackle = Jason Spriggs
Wide receiver 2 = Michael Thomas, Tyler Boyd
Last edited by edromeo; 04/29/16 10:59 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
I like Spence, Dodd, and Ogbah. I also think Thomas would be a decent pick.
I do NOT want to trade down again! Don't want Henry w/this pick!
I think Alexander has dropped because apparently he didn't get along very well w/his teammates and coaches. I guess he has a difficult personality. After taking Giber a couple of years ago, this information gives me pause. However, he really has great ball skills and is a fierce competitor.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,864
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,864 |
@RapSheet
The #Cowboys are attempting to trade up with the #Browns at No. 32, source said. The likely target is a pass-rusher.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
What if we get their 2017 first round pick?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 4,041
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 4,041 |
I do NOT want to trade down again! Don't want Henry w/this pick! I can see that, but here's the flip side. I'm for trading down from 32 ONLY if it results in a couple of picks between ~30ish--65. I think Alexander has dropped because apparently he didn't get along very well w/his teammates and coaches. I guess he has a difficult personality. After taking Giber a couple of years ago, this information gives me pause. However, he really has great ball skills and is a fierce competitor. I'll openly admit that I'm very ignorant of off the field stuff. So I wasn't aware. IF its true the staff has to do their homework and see if they can/want to handle his personality because on the field in my eyes looked like a 1st round CB. Hue, Horton, Louie Coiffi and Cannon Matthews have to decide....can the reason/reach the kid? How much (possible) extrawork/headache are they willing to put in for a top prospect. How strong is the locker room? Is the juice worth the squeeze? Thinking back again to 2014, and what difference a good CB play can bring...I'm leaning toward Mac. But, am good with pass rusher. Philosophically I'm always good with pass rusher.
Last edited by edromeo; 04/29/16 01:01 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,447
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,447 |
Funniest thing you've ever said 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,447
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,447 |
If anyone wants 32 I want their 2017 1st. Plain and simple. We still have multiple 3rd and 4th rounders to get back in the top 60 easily. Can you imagine still having a pick in each round while having 3 1sts and 2 2nds next year? Wow
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
Funniest thing you've ever said I don't know......After we beat Atlanta a couple of years ago to improve our record to 7 and 4, I uttered: "Playoffs, baby!"
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507 |
If anyone wants 32 I want their 2017 1st. Plain and simple. We still have multiple 3rd and 4th rounders to get back in the top 60 easily. Can you imagine still having a pick in each round while having 3 1sts and 2 2nds next year? Wow I would be shocked to see us trading up in this draft. Actually, stunned might be a better word. I see this front office wanting to add as many players in the 2 big impact rounds being selected today.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
You posted that on an Impact Players thread? 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,523
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,523 |
I heard something on the radio about this a few days ago.With my limited ability I can't find any link or more info,and fuzziness keeps me from total recall.The percentages are incorrect,but close,someone with more talent can find the actual numbers.
Of the 22 All Pro players last year (your impact guys) 80% were drafted in the 1st round,with over 40% coming from the top ten.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
Yeah, but some guys want us to get a ton of guys in rounds 5-7.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,214
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,214 |
I heard something on the radio about this a few days ago.With my limited ability I can't find any link or more info,and fuzziness keeps me from total recall.The percentages are incorrect,but close,someone with more talent can find the actual numbers.
Of the 22 All Pro players last year (your impact guys) 80% were drafted in the 1st round,with over 40% coming from the top ten. But, but, but..... we need more bodies!
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,341
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 15,341 |
Who does? The best picks will come in rds. 2-4 and as of now we have 1 in the 2nd, 3 in the 3rd, and 3 in the 4th, we also have 3 5ths that we can use to move up in rds. 2-4 so I don't see anyone saying we want all later rd. picks ... 
John 3:16 Jesus said "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507 |
You posted that on an Impact Players thread? You know that you can get solid to impact players throughout the 2nd and 3rd rounds. Let's look back to 2013. 35: Zach Ertz 37: Giovani Benard 44: Kwaann Short 48: Le'Veon Bell 60: Robert Alford 61: Eddie Lacy 63: Travis Kelce 69: Tyrann Mathieu 71: TJ McDonald 74: Terrance Williams 76: Keenan Allen 79: Marcus Wheaton 80: JJ Wilcox 83: Logan Ryan 85: Jordan Reed 94: Brandon Williams That's a quick list of some who jumped out. There are some really nice players in that group.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 4,041
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 4,041 |
I heard something on the radio about this a few days ago.With my limited ability I can't find any link or more info,and fuzziness keeps me from total recall.The percentages are incorrect,but close,someone with more talent can find the actual numbers.
Of the 22 All Pro players last year (your impact guys) 80% were drafted in the 1st round,with over 40% coming from the top ten. Not surprising. The all-pro 22 are the best of the best in the NFL. My math is terrible but there are ~2,880 players in the NFL the all-pro team is what...the top 1%? I don't know how many all-pros are on the average roster. But, you still have to build the remaining 48ish players on the roster.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,214
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,214 |
So that's one in four. And you had to go back to 2013 to make it look that good.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507 |
I went to 2013 because these would be guys going into their contract years this coming season. They have 3 years under their belts, and the bums have been weeded out.
Further, the 2013 draft is generally considered to be a fairly so-so draft. (the Mingo draft)
You are welcome to look at other years if you like.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,214
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 75,214 |
My point still remains. You are looking at a 1 in 4 chance the players will be average or above. And you are right in that they can be found.
My point also remains that your odds go down to one in four and in the fourth and fifth rounds they drastically decline from there.
At some point you achieve a situation where it becomes bodies over players.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,386
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,386 |
My point still remains. You are looking at a 1 in 4 chance the players will be average or above. And you are right in that they can be found.
My point also remains that your odds go down to one in four and in the fourth and fifth rounds they drastically decline from there.
At some point you achieve a situation where it becomes bodies over players. Look in my post in the thread for the second round pick and you will have your answer.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 50,507 |
That's why I want to maximize rounds 2 and 3. I think that there is tremendous value in these rounds.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,386
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,386 |
That's why I want to maximize rounds 2 and 3. I think that there is tremendous value in these rounds. I agree. Lots of talent right up to about pick #75
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,915
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,915 |
First round pick? That I can abide. Jets offer up Wilkerson? THAT I can abide. That pick is in essence a first rounder.... so I'd want a great deal before trading down. A first rounder next year or a young stud player. Otherwise take best player on the board regardless of position. BPA all the way.
#BlackLivesMatter #StopAsianHate
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,915
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,915 |
No. Mostly EO but a lot of posters have been saying that tripe forever. If it's so fricken easy to find a stud RB then why haven't we had one since Leroy Kelly. I watched Kelly run when I was a kid. Not old enough to have seen Brown live. LONG time since we've ahd great there. Long time since we've had great at any skill position. QB? Kosar and that's pushing the term a bit. RB? Kelly. WR? Man, I'd have to say Warfield..... Sure would be nice to change that someday. ONLY great player since the return? JT and he's getting a bit long in the tooth. He's still great but he won't be by the time this team is ready to roll even IF they do this right.... I am in agreement that we shouldn't be trading down over and over for average we should be shooting for GREAT if possible. Pass rusher, RB whatever. I'd be cool with a LT as long as he's great like JT. But moving down again would bug me. None? I know a Mack, Byner, 2 Pruits and a Lewis that would disagree with that. Those guys were very good. Not GREAT. Are any of them in the Hall of Fame? Kelly is. Jim Brown is. Those were great backs. Emmitt, Barry, Dickerson, etc. Again we haven't had a great back since Kelly. I kind of fudged on Kosar. The truth is we haven't had a GREAT QB since Otto Graham. In my lifetime(54 years) there haven't been many great players on this team. There have been some really good ones. But Hall of Fame kind of great? The cupboard has been very bare. I was really young when I saw Kelly. I kind of remember it.... lol I do recall I had his football card and Jim Browns too. Sure wish I had those now....
#BlackLivesMatter #StopAsianHate
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413
Legend
|
|
Legend
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 42,413 |
Yeah, but some guys want us to get a ton of guys in rounds 5-7. Who said that?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,915
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 5,915 |
Value equals best player available regardless of positon. So if we are going to trade down eschewing the best player on our board at #32, which might just be a player much higher than 32 on our particular list? We need to rake in a lot of "value" and then maximize that "value" by taking the BPA. Going for value picks then reaching for players of need isn't gaining value it's gaining bodies.
Either way we are likely going to get 4 players tonight. They have to be really good players. Can't miss on these picks.
#BlackLivesMatter #StopAsianHate
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,386
Hall of Famer
|
|
Hall of Famer
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,386 |
No. Mostly EO but a lot of posters have been saying that tripe forever. If it's so fricken easy to find a stud RB then why haven't we had one since Leroy Kelly. I watched Kelly run when I was a kid. Not old enough to have seen Brown live. LONG time since we've ahd great there. Long time since we've had great at any skill position. QB? Kosar and that's pushing the term a bit. RB? Kelly. WR? Man, I'd have to say Warfield..... Sure would be nice to change that someday. ONLY great player since the return? JT and he's getting a bit long in the tooth. He's still great but he won't be by the time this team is ready to roll even IF they do this right.... I am in agreement that we shouldn't be trading down over and over for average we should be shooting for GREAT if possible. Pass rusher, RB whatever. I'd be cool with a LT as long as he's great like JT. But moving down again would bug me. None? I know a Mack, Byner, 2 Pruits and a Lewis that would disagree with that. Those guys were very good. Not GREAT. Are any of them in the Hall of Fame? Kelly is. Jim Brown is. Those were great backs. Emmitt, Barry, Dickerson, etc. Again we haven't had a great back since Kelly. I kind of fudged on Kosar. The truth is we haven't had a GREAT QB since Otto Graham. In my lifetime(54 years) there haven't been many great players on this team. There have been some really good ones. But Hall of Fame kind of great? The cupboard has been very bare. I was really young when I saw Kelly. I kind of remember it.... lol I do recall I had his football card and Jim Browns too. Sure wish I had those now.... Oh we simply need Hall of Famers. For a minute there I thought you were set the bar too high. 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,805
Dawg Talker
|
|
Dawg Talker
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,805 |
I like Spence, Dodd, and Ogbah. I also think Thomas would be a decent pick.
I do NOT want to trade down again! Don't want Henry w/this pick!
[quote][/quote] Good call. Impact VS Guys? I think we did excellent at 15 and 32. WR (Impact-Our #1 WR on the Board) Pass Rusher (Impact)
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499
Legend
|
|
OP
Legend
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 55,499 |
I agree. I also think Nassib was a pretty good pick in round 3.
I'm very happy w/what the Brows did through the Nassib pick. Traded down and got a ton of picks, Coleman has potential, Ogbah is a good pick, Nassib can be a situational rusher. Very good.
Shon Coleman is okay. Project. Very raw. Needs a lot of refinement to technique and how to react to stunts, blitzes, etc....
The Kessler pick was terrible! Don't get that pick at all.
However, all things considered..........I'm pretty happy w/this draft.
|
|
|
DawgTalkers.net
Forums The Archives 2016 NFL Season 2016 NFL Draft Impact Players Vs Guys
|
|
