DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2016 NFL Season 2016 NFL Draft Impact Players Vs Guys

Oh I am sorry, when I read the part about you being upset because Peen clicked like on a post. I thought you surely were joking.

My mistake

j/c

I think we can agree this was a better draft than the last 2.

I should have enjoyed being called a "know nothing?"

Okay......

I told you , that is not the part I was laughing about .

EO is a football god the rest of us are a bunch of idiots and you know he is always right about the extreme amount of talent we have on this team every year.

Maybe, but it really takes a couple years to decide that.

Doubt Haslam will ever give anyone more than 2, and the carousel will continue

What is so hard to understand? One poster insults two others. Another poster says he "likes" the insulting post.

It's typical of the bullying nature that many have on this board. I don't think it's funny at all.

JC

Hmm...I've never noticed the "like" feature before. So the good news is I learned something and didn't waste my day as my wife claims. The bad news is I've probably accidentally "liked" stuff for years that I had no idea about...lol.

JMO, but it sounds like 15 year old girl type FB drama.

I wouldnt expect it from a grown man

But again, JMO

Love the irony.....

So are you over it yet??

Or are you going to continue to whine and complain that you felt insulted in every draft thread??

Do you think the refs really want to be bothered with your constant whining to them?

Grow a set, and sack up

and if saying that gets me banned again, Oh well.

Are we going to get back to the topic or will there be more high school girl drama? SMH

I hope we get a kicker who can hit from 50. Coons needs to be cut.

Choose your Kicker:

Kicker A:
Year 1:
8-12 overall. 3-5 from 40-49, 0-0 from 50+, 23-24 XP

Year 2: 14-17 overall, 2-5 from 40-49, 0-0 from 50+, 17-17 XP

This K never tried a FG from 50+ until his 4th season

Kicker B:
28-32 overall, 7-9 from 40-49, 0-2 from 50+ 22-24 XP

Kicker C:
Year 1: 22-32 overall, 8-14 from 40-49, 1-4 from 50+, 46-46 XP

Who do you want?

LMAO. Ain't that the truth. Love Lasorda.

Add Running an NFL Draft to that.

OK Sports Fans. Back on topic.

Vers. Let's revisit this and see where we're at with the Top 5 Impact Positions.

QB? Kessler? What a JOKE. Unless Griffin pulls a rabbit outta his ass we'll be looking again in 2017. Maybe Kessler can be a solid #2 in the future.

2 QB's to watch in 2016.

Watson Clemson and Kaaya U of Miami.

LT? Set with Thomas.

Pass Rusher? HUGE help if Ogbah can be the man. At least we TRIED, and EARLY at 32.

#1 CB? Still have Haden. I thought this CB Class Sucked across the board. Hargreaves does nothing for me. He's NOT #1 CB fluid in the hips IMO.

#1 WR? Possibly with Coleman. Again, we TRIED, and early. His drops aren't alarming to me. Wish he was a bit taller 6'2"+ but this dude's gonna break some CB's ankle.

So. Again we are left with QB, which happens to be #1 on the damn list. But we may also have 4 of the top 5 locked up? At least these guys recognized it and attacked it.

As soon as SD went Bosa it got my attention with my hope of moving to 15. Then when Jones took Elliot my eyes rose up. Hmmm. Looking good so far. Then came Frisco. As soon as they announced Buckner I was jumping around screaming CALL TENNY.

Quick note.

Love the trio of receivers in Coleman, Higgins and Payton. Got some SIZE with the latter 2.

My only wish was dropping Kessler and Louis and grabbing the RB Booker and the SC TE Adams.

I can't help but think about who the Browns passed on had they stayed at 2.

Wentz
Bosa
Zeke
Ramsey
Buckner
Stanley
Tunsil

They could have still got Ogbah at 32 and some of the other guys w/their original picks.

I wonder if we got a bunch of guys by trading down and didn't get that impact player?

I'm trying not to dwell on that but yeah I get your point.
Overall I don't mind the strategy to stockpile picks and from what I have read on the new guys, I'm mostly pleased. Hopefully enough of em pan out.

It all has to play out on the field, but we gave up an opportunity to draft a true impact player and it sure seems like we got a bunch of "guys."

We'll see........

I see what you are saying but I look at it this way if we picked one of those players at 2 and then we get a Dante Fowler or Clowney situation then we have nothing. I think this year the strategy we used is safer, we got a bunch of guys to try and fill a bunch of needs we couldn't afford a bust on one big player. Granted they won't all work out just a better chance of getting more good players. Next year we will have alot of picks and we can afford to try and grab a few of those impact players. JMHO

Ok, look at it this way. Would you trade Cory Coleman, plus all the picks we got for moving from 2 to 8, and 8 to 15 , for any ONE of those guys??

We can maybe disagree with whosome of those picks were used on, but what they have done with this draft is what dynastys are built on

I am not really making any concrete declarations. I'm just thinking things through.

On another thread, someone said how this year was so different because we traded down and got more picks instead of wasting it on one player. That got me to thinking about how many times we have traded down.

I remember:

--we moved from 5 and ended up w/Mack. That worked out pretty good. I know the Jets took Sanchez, but I am not sure who went from 6 until the spot where we took Mack. I think it was 21, but not sure.

--we moved down from 4 to 8 and took Gilber. That was a disaster.

--we moved down and took Wimbley instead of Ngata. Bad move.

--we traded the sixth pick which turned out to be Julio Jones and we ended up w/Taylor, who is out of football.

I don't know.......

I few things to throw in there...

We traded back up for Gilbert.

We would have picked Wimbley over Ngata anyway. Savage gave Romeo his choice.

Taylor looked pretty good until he got hurt. I don't think trading down has anything to do with injuries.

We definitely have not been good a drafting over the years. In fact we have been so bad it would almost seem there are higher powers at work against us. Maybe we can turn it around this year, law of averages says we have to luck into a good draft sooner or later right??

I agree here. I have seen nothing special from any of the picks (not seen: Kindred and the TE). There's pretty much zero day one readiness in this crop and those who are, have not much upside left and are role/ST players at best.

As bad as Farmer's draft was, but at least there was some obvious talent on some of his picks (Duke, Cooper and Campbell were the picks I applauded and the one's that seem to stick). There's nothing of that with this years group though.

I think it's because they drafted more based on stat sheets or workout numbers than on pure scouting. The common thing with almost all the picks are big numbers in a big college. That can work as a starting point to thin out your pool, but scouting ALWAYS has to be the separator. And that's the problem that remain with the Browns: they have no talent EVALUATOR worth a damn.

1) Quarterback
Right now I agree that there isn't an impact player at the QB position on the roster. But, as a rookie Griffin was the definition of an impact player. So imho there is higher level of likelihood then with him then with any QB signed or drafted that hasn't been an impact player before. I am not a fan of the Kessler pick either. I think it was a reach. But being a reach doesn't automatically make the prospect bad. When it comes to QBs I differ to Hue. Kessler is rookie developmental QB and as such he wasn't drafted to be an immediate contributor and impact player at the QB position.

2) Designated pass rusher 1 (RDE/ROLB)
Agreed.
Ogbah's skillset and production project like some of the better pass rusher's in the NFL. He reminds me of Orkapo when he came out, except he's bigger and faster.

3) Left tackle - Set

4) Left cornerback - Didn't address via draft...Joe Haden used to be an impact player. Ultra Longshot-Jammar Taylor reaches his drafted talent level?

Didn't address it.

5) Wide receiver 1-In Coleman the FO brings in one of the best (if not thee best) WR prospects in the draft. When it comes to physical skillset and production he certainly fits the profile of an impact WR. I see Sammy Watkins/Golden Tate in him.

WR #2-#4 We followed it up with 3 more WRs. Ricardo Luis profiles as deep threat, big body WR. Payton & Higgins are less explosive/vertical receivers but are polished route runners and profile as contributing possession type receivers.

6) Defensive tackle -- None
7) Running back -- None

8) Designated pass rusher 2 (LDE/LOLB)
Nassib-Another productive player with the physical skillset that matches the profile of quality NFL pass rushers.

9) Middle linebacker Joe Schobert and Scooby Wright. I really like Joe's movements skills, productivity and game tape. But he'll be making the transition from college OLB to ILB. The skillset is there. This guy isn't merely a run and chase WILB that can't take on blocks. As an edge player in college he's used to setting a edge and taking on blocks + he adds range and athleticism that most 'thumper' style SILB lack.
I think Joe will contribute this year.

Scooby was an ultra productive WILB, but has limited physical skillset

10) Tight end -- Don't know much about Seth Devalve other then his physical skillset which is very good for TE.

11) Free safety -- Derrick Kendrick. Don't know much about him. I watched 1 game tape of him that was up and down. Thought there were better prospects on the board BUT this dude is tough and was apparently playing with a broken shoulder blade. Physical skillset again profiles well.

13) Right tackle -- Shon Coleman. Big, Physical. Run blocker. I think this guy will start.
Drango- OT/OG

Yup. They addressed nearly 2 years worth weaknesses in 1 draft.

Philosophical Tangent:
I think there is difference/distinction to be made between impact player vs impact position. I know already that know that this maybe too fine a distinction on an internet message board football forum. BUT, imho you cannot draft 'impact players' you can only use premium draft picks on impact positions. Its like 'franchise' QB moniker. Prospects/player either become impact players or not.

I'd say that, in general, this is a pretty fair assessment. However, I would say that I feel the upside is a lot greater than the picture this paints. These guys weren't drafted to contribute this year... well, they were, but that's not when/where I feel we're looking for the payoff. We're planting them and growing them this year and next. These guys aren't the flashy stars that everyone wants - they're the new core of this squad. They're laying a new foundation and using raw quantity to ensure that we get enough hits to come away with something we can work with and build upon.

Not a lot of so-called "superstar" potential there, at all, but what you do have is a large group of players where they all have the characteristics that ensure the highest chance of success - smart, good character, solid work ethic, athletic freaks. Those are the types of guys that can be coached up and turned into very, very solid players if given a little time.



I'm still big-time on the fence about these guys (this FO), but I get what they're doing and it makes sense. They're not taking any short-sighted attempts at a quick-fix. It's as good of an approach to rebuilding as any, bar none.

Nice post, ed...............but, just so you know............Kendricks is strictly a SS. He has terrible hips. No lateral movement. Takes bad angles to guys in the open field.

He is a poor man's TJ Ward. He actually reminds me more of Elam, but not as good. I see him as a Special Teams guy.




Not too fine of a distinction for me. Let's discuss. I'm ready.

I don't know about the "bar none" point, but I agree w/the rest of what you said. Pretty good point.

I am very ignorant of Kendrick as a player outside of that game cut-up I posted earlier. Personally I thought there were better prospects on the board and better S prospects specifically. I would be disappointed if he's just a SS. At the time of the draft I would have went KJ Dillon or Willie Henry there.

*Watched and posted 2nd game-cut up. Its tough to grade S play from TV feed. He played most of his snaps in the slot ~60%, the rest as Cover-2 1/2 field Safety and a couple/few snaps as single post single deep S. He took a couple bad angles. We disagree some on his movement skills, but again its hard to assess on TV feed. He seemed to do a good job closely mirroring the slot receivers. He missed a couple tackles though, which is carry over form the 1st game cut-up. He appears to be a cut tackler like a CB where he lunges at legs/feet but doesn't bring his arms to wrap. But, its hard to forget that the dude is out there playing with a broken shoulder blade which undoubted effects his ability to wrap and his overall approach to contact.

Looking at this small sample size it still looks like he has potential to transition of FS/Single post S. When looking at FS in a Cover 3 scheme I always go back to something Pete Carrol said

Different schemes look for different traits. But some I look for are -willingness to tackle -aggression -tackling effiecy (i.e. low missed tackles) -speed/movement ability and discipline to the seam/post

Kendrick for me so far is willing and aggressive but his tackling efficiency is low how much of this is due to injury? I tend to give him a pass there because I can't get over the fact that the dude is out there playing with what amounts to 1 arm. Now, I haven't watched him cover a seam or post route yet but his ability to mirror suggest that he might be able to. Still have some more digging to do there.
Impact players can come from anywhere and can play any position. It would be beneficial for a team to have impact players at impact positions. But, you can't "draft" impact players because you don't "know" who the impact players are until the emerge. So right now its impossible to say if this draft brought in any impact players. But they at least addressed impact positions with premium resources.

Kindred? The Browns official site has him listed as FS on the roster.

Where are you seeing enough of him to get a read on his hips? I'm having trouble finding much other than highlights.

^^

Grimm--(not Kendricks directly) but posted 2 cut-ups not highlights in the Kendrick thread, you should take a gander for yourself be curious to hear/read your thoughts

It's Derrick Kindred, not Kendrick(s).

I'll post over in that thread.

Since we're talking about the initial trade from #2, you have to take into account next year's extra #1 at least. I don't know that any of the "impact" players that you posted, would have been more likely than Coleman to bring even one more win this upcoming season. I would hope that the combination of Coleman and whoever we get next year's extra one would be worth that and more.

I know you're not ready to make a call on the this draft and I respect that, but I do think we have to at least give credit to the FO for not engaging in more of the same, reaching for projects and trying to be the smartest guy's in the room. Kessler is really the only pick that I've heard anyone give us any real grief over as a reach and that was Hue, our "football guy" that apparently made that call so...let's hope he knows what he's doing.

Derrick Kindred played all 3 safety spots in the 4-2-5. I personally view him as a SS because of what he brings to the running game, but I thought he'd be fine as a FS. I did not see anything wrong with his hips, but it could just be that I didn't see the same tape as Verse. I plan on watching more.

The thing that stuck out to me with Kindred was how well he diagnosed the play and anticipated where the ball was going. If he was to play FS, I would prefer him to be a center fielder in zone over man coverage to take advantage of that ability.