DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... The Presidential Primaries IX

....which is why I've always seen Sanders as a long shot for an actual presidency, but a potential 'father of a modern revolution.'

No matter who lands the job, the anger and desire for change will still be there. It will take a concerted effort of change-minded folk to continue the momentum he's built, and find workable solutions to achieve some of his ends.

If the ideals are sound, there should be feasible ways to make them policy. Bernie's problem was "too much, too soon"... and without enough nuts & bolts homework being done.

I see his "Feel The Bern" campaign as America's first real shot at a viable 3rd party in the future.


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Speaker Ryan isn't supporting Trump, at least not yet. I'm not at all sure this is a done deal.

USA Today

I get war spending, to a point.

I get the military budget as well, to a point. For example, look at all the money that has been sucked into that failed ass F-35 program. Jesus.

Look how much we spent just on the Iraq campaign.

I don't think we have to cut the military budget, but anybody who thinks the budget needs to keep getting increased is fooling themselves. We spend plenty. And I mean plenty, to the point it's overkill.

As far as college tutitom is healthcare, he can make his plans work without these crazy ass tax increases. That is what scares off people.

Erik seems to forget that the private sector has just as much responsibility in the state of our economy as the government does.

So I'm not anti government like he is, but I'm not gonna trust the government, who screwed us over as well.

There has to be balance. Both sides have proven over and over again that it will absolutely screw us over if given the chance.

I think a 1-2% increase is fine just to kick start his ideas. But not the radical tax increases he's trying to push off on people.

Erik, in his ever simplistic ideas of government and loans, forgets that the public universities have been given more freedom to act like a business, so simply blaming it on the government being in the student loan game is a wreck less statement at best.

I want to remind the board, I'm not talking about private institutions. Just public universities.

The government, at the very least, can make it so that tuition doesn't rise anymore for state universities.

I don't understand why that isn't a perfect compromise between making college tuition free, or allowing the cost to continue to rise.

Ever simplistic huh? You do realize that I am talking about the provision in the ACA that removes private banks from the student loan process, and basically sets up the federal government and their approved banking partners as the only loan institutions. In other words, the government is securing student loans, just like they did housing loans before the housing collapse in 2007. Their premise is that everyone deserves a college education. No, they do not. A lot of people are morons that should never go to college. This is also why Bernie's free tuition is a bad idea.

These public institutions have not been given more freedom to act like a business. They've been told that everyone can get an education and lowered their standards. Haven't you ever wondered why colleges are teaching remedial English and math now? 20 years ago, those students would not have been accepted.

they teach it because they know they can charge full price for a remedial course while said course has no credit hours.

anybody who's a recent college student can explain that to you. it's common sense business practice.

as far as deserving the college education, thats a matter of opinion, not fact, especially with how the global economy is today.

does everybody deserve to graudate? of course not, but the opportunity to attend and not have to be underwater when you're actually on your own would be helpful.

but i get it. everytime we get into these social discussions, you make it obvious that you aren't for anything that betters us as an american society.

i wonder if you even realize that or not. you just really, and others on this board, sound like you could give a damn about the man/woman beside you.

what is destroying this country isn't government or corporations, it's us, since we are a representation of those entities.

this solo dolo mindset you and others have is exactly why more and more countries are whooping our asses in a host of topics.

instead of building each other up, we tear each other down and point fingers, instead or working together for solutions.

you see this example right here on this board on a daily basis.

but its cool. if thats the mindset you wanna have, whatever. i will not. i will always be for the betterment and progress of our country. not the backward steps you and the rest of the conservatives seem to want.


stop blocking, start helping.

Did you get a recent college education or something? They teach remedial English and math because they can charge full prices for it, and the government guarantees all the loans. They allow anyone in because the government secures the loans. Do you not see the correlation between the idea of 'everyone deserves to own a home' and 'everyone deserves a college education' with the government backing all the loans. We will eventually have the same crash, because a lot of students are taking courses they can't market into a career. No company cares if you have a high school diploma, because the standards have dropped. No one will care if you have a college degree soon, because the standards have dropped. It does no good to 'educate' people if you're not doing an excellent job with that education.

Please also note that college tuition keep rising, as the government is backing the loans. How much longer before this bubble bursts?

i don't understand your first sentence, as that's literally what i just finished saying.

everybody deserves a chance to get an education. thats NOT the same as everybody deserves a degree. you need to learn how to separate the two. yes, there's a difference.

yes, if a business see's the government is backing them, why not raise the tuition? the public schools has the freedom to do that.

you're dancing around the issue, but you're not making any point, honestly.

IF you are just the type of person who doesn't care about our society as a whole and progressing, just say so. at least i know where you would stand then. cause right now, you're not making any viable points.

I love the "open minded" liberals. Anyone who has an opinion different then theirs is uneducated. If you want Bernie elected, it would be your interest to see why people don't like him and learn from that. Maybe try getting that bipartisan support liberals always preach about.

Bernie isn't going to solve problems, he is only going to cover them up with higher taxes. College is too expensive, instead of looking at why the cost is sky rocketing and address it, Bernie will just raise taxes and give everyone college for "free" I have student loans I am paying off, I know one day I will pay them off and I'll be done. Under Bernie, I would be paying for college the rest of my life. Sounds like a pretty bad deal.

You want an equal shot by getting everything for free.

so the only way to get things done and progress as a nation is to shoot each other?

what a barbaric concept.

Then you go on to say...



Quite sure my teacher education program required accreditation, many hours spent (unpaid) in a classroom working with kids, and many APA papers with tons of citations and sources.

Are there "easy" classes and paperweight degrees? Of course, but the viable paths in college lead to a decent career.

People get freaked out about the government taking their money, and wasting it. Another portion, which many don't freely admit, want to hoarde their money as a status symbol. I'd rather put mine back to in give to others, not through some charity to make myself look good, for meaningful programs.



We live in a period of obstructionism driven by logical fallcies, chain emails as credible as Ron Mexico's real name, and covert stomping of the feet because the majority isn't much of a majority anymore.



You would actually be investing into the future of this country. Giving kids with much financial hardship, there is no free ride for those in deep poverty...I've seen this with my own eyes the last four years of my professional career, a chance to sit at the table with the rest of America.

Greed, xenophobia, and ignorance plague our world.

Back to the presidential election before us ... for me, it comes down to the possibility / likelihood for as many as 4 SCOTUS appointments in the next term. I just can't leave that to the likes of Hillary Clinton or Bernie Sanders. I don't want to vote for Trump, but I voted for Bob Dole and John McCain and I didn't like them either. My opinion is that a 3rd party vote is a vote for the candidate who is further removed from your personal ideology, because they have no chance to win, and they will only draw support from a candidate who is closer to your ideology, although not your candidate of choice.

That's exactly my point. The Clinton haters are quick to point out Benghazi and how much of a liar she is yet, they somehow seem to forget Bush/Rumsfeld/Cheney/Powell's lie that cost many, many lives, billions of dollars and helped create the mess we are currently seeing with ISIS.

Yet, he still got re-elected.

The problems with Hillary run a bit deeper than just 1 incident - Benghazi - they go all the way back to whitewater. She skates on everything.

Were I to do what she does, I'd be in prison.

So would you.

As they should. They do it all the time, why would I want to give them more?

I freely admit I love money, it drives me, but it isn't for -status at all. I guess I "horde" it because I'm saving for retirement? I buy nice things that I bust my ass for?


And giving to charity because it looks good? lmao - I give to charity because I want to, and I do it anonymously. I don't want recognition from it - I want to give to programs that I feel are deserving of my time and money. I think you are way off base with this statement.

Call me ignorant and greedy if you want to, doesn't bother me one bit. The constant "you're ignorant if you don't agree with me" logic from the liberal end of the spectrum is tiring.

Bush, Bush, Bush. What a tired and stale piece of rhetoric this has become. The past is past, mistakes were made, but he isn't running for POTUS. The focus we now have is Hillary more capable or culpable?

Did anybody see the story about the Tow Truck driver refusing to tow a disabled woman's car because she was a Bernie supporter? Trump is good for America... His followers are out of line and need some old fashion woodshed attitude adjustment. I wish just once one of these ignorant hick SOB redneck slobs would try some stuff like that with me, I'd show them violence.

But Benghazi isn't? Give it a rest, Benghazi saved Hillary from Bernie. Benghazi made Hillary look like a victim of a witch hunt. Funny how every Republican strategy backfires in their face. It'd be funny if we weren't all tragically involved.

I am fine with a flatter tax system, and in fact, I would prefer a system that is flatter, and with fewer deductions.

However, one thing that I disagree with is anyone paying zero in taxes. I think that every single person in this country should pay something towards this country's operation and protection, even if it's only $25/year. There should be a minimum tax for each and every person in this country. I think there is real value in each and every person being invested in his/her country.

4 people are dead because she left them hanging out to dry and she comes out squeaky clean…if I were a Hillary supporter I'd be embarrassed by that if I had the courage to face the truth.

Yeah, that wasn't cool. I did read how if he'd have known she was disabled he would've at least waited for another tow truck with her but still...

I agree this was completely uncalled for however there are just as many idiots at the Trump rallies that are blocking traffic, starting fights, etc that need an attitude adjustment as well. Both sides are being stupid. I can say the same thing - "if those tree hugging, freeloading, jobless leeches ever ask me for some spare change I'll show them violence. Get a job you useless piece of trash". Now, I'd never, ever do that, but it is exactly what you just said you would do to the tow truck driver. There is no compromise or willingness to listen openly anymore by a large group of conservatives and liberals. Each side has a large number if morons.

I get mad when I see Bernie stickers, it sickens me just as Trump sickens you. I didn't refuse service to someone, but I did make a smartass comment to a girl wearing a Bernie shirt while we were boarding a plane. I had my "Seinfeld/Costanza '16 Make America Great" tee shirt on and she said she liked it. She was wearing a Bernie shirt so I asked if she wanted it since she didn't have one as that would only be fair. She did not find that amusing however I did get some chuckles out of some presumably anti-socialists sitting near me.

Wish you could have made it to the draft party. My VERY liberal buddy and I had a nice political conversation from about 11pm to 3am, lol. Was a rough morning after that but some awesome conversation.

i think the hardcore bernie supporters take themselves a bit too seriously.

If the "past is the past" then we should move forward from Benghazi. Also, Bush was the POTUS when these "mistakes were made" yet, he wasn't impeached, he didn't resign he decided to run again and the people re-elected him.

If you are willing to pardon Bush and co. on the crimes of going to war with Iraq on false pretense...then it raises the question of "why do we put more value on the lives of somebody from a certain nation"? Innocent lives are innocent. Doesn't matter if they are American or Iraqi. And, innocent lives continue to die as one of the main after effects of going into Iraq has been the creation of ISIS.

The Dem party need to unite otherwise it worries me the election could be too close. I hope for a silent majority who haven't played their part in the Primaries to come out in November and the Senate also turns blue.

18-24 year olds, African American, Hispanic and women voters are the key to Democratic success in November. I am pretty sure the majority of African Americans, Hispanics and women who vote wont be voting for Trump. The key will be 18-24 year olds to turn out strong in November. They did in 2008...hopefully the do it again.

Trump can have it, if the alternative means I have to vote for hillary.

I'd like to see Bernie in because he is honest and decent. I'm not into free rides, free stuff... blah blah blah.

I think having insurance companies involved in health care as a profit only middleman is ridiculous. I think government deals that keep us from negotiating lower drug prices is ridiculous. I think out of control medical costs are ridiculous... AND I think everyone has the right to health care.

I think education, infrastructure, jobs and the environment are important issues. I'm sick of war, tired of war for profits and want a President that prefers no wars.

Now if that is a mad dog liberal commie socialist, then that's who I am, no apologies.

And actually, if it ends up Trump vs. Hillary with no other choices, I think Trump might be the President that does the least damage and forces both parties to reinvent themselves.

I don't think Trump will get two terms, and he might be more liberal than Hillary... Nobody knows. I do know Hillary is a neocon democrat who lies, works for the rich only and tows the establishment elite overlord's company line.

'Sup, Bro?

That sounds like many nights I've had over the years. Quick question: after 4 hours, did either of you guys move the others' political needle?

Don't forget the fictitious, the dead, the felons and the illegal immigrants.

You can't handle the truth if you think that's bad.

Hillary already pandering to rich Republicans:

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/05/hilary-clinton-bush-donors-222872

Sadly, that is just proof of how poor our system is: It's all about $$$.

Squires,
Actually I think as proposed Bernie is trying to solve some really big problems. And I think that most of what he has proposed has been misrepresented. His plan for college would be mostly raised by taxing Wall Street .50 on every 100 dollar high frequency trade-generating about 75 billion a year. He also has some other ideas for work study programs, reducing the debt of existing student loans.

Or proof about how much of a sham the idea of the two party system is.

http://www.beckershospitalreview.com/hos...ealth-plan.html

2,000 physicians get behind Bernie Sanders' single payer health plan

Written by Emily Rappleye (Twitter | Google+) | May 06, 2016

A 39-physician panel Thursday unveiled a proposal for single-payer healthcare reform, endorsed by 2,231 physicians, that promises to remove all financial barriers to medical care with no increase in current spending.

Here are six things to know about the proposal.

1. The physicians maintain their proposal is "strictly nonpartisan." It does, however, coincide with the "Medicare for All" policy promoted by Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) and the topic has benefitted from the attention in the primary campaigns, they wrote.

2. The proposed National Health Program would cover healthcare costs for every citizen and immigrant. It would cover outpatient and inpatient care, rehabilitation, mental healthcare, long-term care, dental care and prescription drugs, effectively eliminating premiums, co-payments, deductibles and co-insurance. Patients would be free to choose their physician and hospital.

3. Hospitals would remain private and physicians would continue to practice fee-for-service medicine. The plan would allow hospitals and clinics to remain privately owned and operated, and their costs would be reimbursed with a global lump sum budget from the federal government. Physicians would be salaried by their hospital, practice or clinic. "The largest hospital [pay for performance] demonstrations found initial gains, but no lasting improvement in outcomes," the proposal says. "Systematic reviews on P4P have concluded that high-quality evidence of benefit is lacking."

4. The NHP would reduce bureaucracy compared to the ACA, the physicians claim. This reduction in administrative overhead costs — potentially saving up to 15 percent of national health expenditures — would free up almost $500 billion annually to offset the costs of the program. It would also require "modest" tax increases, though these would be offset by reductions in premiums and out-of-pocket costs, the physicians wrote.

5. The plan would prohibit private insurance coverage that duplicates federal coverage, putting health insurance workers out of jobs. The proposal plans to generate retraining and placement resources for these displaced workers with increased employment in care delivery and other sectors of the economy, as employers would no longer have to provide health insurance.

6. It has already received similar criticisms as Sen. Sanders' Medicare for All. Sen. Sanders' plan has weathered criticism from heavyweight economic advisers in the Democratic party, who said the math does not work out and that they are concerned his promise undermines the party's reputation of responsible, evidence-based policy. Similarly, criticisms of the NHP have already emerged. Jeffrey Flier, MD, dean of Boston-based Harvard Medical School told The Washington Post he thought the proposal was "backward" and not a meaningful contribution.


What people don't seem to understand is like for me, I am basically running my own healthcare thru work and spending lots of time doing it. I pay the monthly premium on my high deductible HSA, determine the monthly amount of money into the HSA, determine what is acceptable health expense into the HSA, pay all of the bills online. I also get to spend countless amount of time on the phone when there is a messed up bill or when my insurance doesn't want to pay for something that is a covered expense or preventative. And for all this fun, I also get to pay about 4-5 hundred a month as my share. And I am sure my employer pays more than that.

His plan as proposed would require married making under 250k a year a tax increase of 2.2% for me and 6.7% for my employer. It saves me money and a lot of headaches.

Of course, these are his numbers on his plans and of course there are skeptics and it is really bold.

I also think that if his plan covered the cost of nursing homes alone and you only had to pay the taxes that are proposed, I would be all in. I have been helping my stepmom deal with the issues of my dad's Alzheimer's and he is now approaching 3 years in a nursing home and she is finally not able to financially care for him anymore...after about 225k spent.

Of course not, however it is amazing how close we really are on things. I'm more of a libertarian - small government, low taxes, and don't get all worked up about gay marriage or bathrooms so fiscally is about the only difference we have. I laid my tax plan I mention above out to him and he said "Brian for President", lol. I think a majority of Americans are very close politically they just don't listen to others opinions.

Really, I liked a lot that Bernie said except for his tax plan. I think he probably is the most honest guy running but I just can't handle his fiscal beliefs.

You don't?