DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum cont...The Browns Front Office...ready for prime time?...

OK, I was mistaken. That is not the same thing as making things up. Why do you always have to make accusatory comments? Couldn't you just as easily said "I think you are mistaken?"

Not as much drama or divisiveness.

Here:

LOL........but no. I just think he made it up.

25th seems fair. We lost a lot of veteran talent on a talent poor team. We added a tainted NFL QB trying to make a comeback with 14 Rookies and 11 UDFA's. We'll be winging it for a year or two no doubt. Sure hope these analytical guys from Harvard know what their doing and get this right.

And I think you made that up.

See how easy it is.

Wow...I didn't know someone asking a question means taking a hard stance on an issue.

Huh....you learn something new everyday.

Only time will tell and no I don't mean 1 day, 1 week or 1 months time. We will know within 3 years, and one thing I am sure we can all agree on is that we pray this all works out.

Actually I was mistaken a little while back where I said he was in the pro bowl 3 years ago. So perhaps he read my post and used that time frame for his comment.

Doesn't change that gipson only had one good season. In actuality it was only 11 games/

Well, I did not make up when Gipson was a pro bowler. That is for sure.

Ray Horton called Gipson the MVP of the defense when he previously coached here, thus I disagree w/your take on him only having one good season.

No, you made up the part about him making things up and you can believe me because I'm not making that up.

I made up my own opinion?

Interesting.

You guys have lost me...

You just made that up.

There is a reason they gave you a badge, Barney. You are a superior detective.

Ah, Pure Football.

Point taken. 27 good games

lol wow what did I miss???

Doesn't matter, it's all made up anyway

So. . . pretend you are interested. All fabulous creativity.

I seemed to have lost my thread. Anybody seen it around here?

On topic, I have no choice but to hope for this draft and a wave of UDFA additions. That includes a bunch of hope for the coaching staff! But I hope it is a large step in the right direction. This FO has to prove it isn't mining fool's gold. Wait and see, and also show me.

They have so much work ahead of them. New coach, new staff, new front office, so many new faces in terms of younger players, new scheme... no Qb, oline that's extremely questionable. Defense that has consistently sucked.

Yeah, I truly feel like I could just go on and on and on with the uphill battles ahead.

I think the two preceding comments by Bard and LB pretty much say it for me. I am cautiously optimistic, but there are uphill battles all over the field.

There are going to be battles all over the field, that's for sure.

Which players are somewhat or completely guaranteed jobs? Not many.

LT: Thomas
LG: Likely Bitonio
C: ?
RG? Greco?
RT: ?
WR1: ?
WR2: ?
WR Slot:?
TE: Barnidge
RB: Likely Crowell
3rd down RB: Duke
QB: Likely RG3
FB: ?

DE1: Des Bryant?
NT: Shelton
DE2: ?
OLB: Orchard?
ILB: Kirksey
ILB: ?
OLB: ?
CB1: Haden, if healthy
FS: ?
SS: Campbell?
CB2:?
Nickel CB: Likely K'Waun Williams

P: Lee
K: Coons?
PR: ?
KR: ?
LS: Likely Hughlett

That's 30 spots. 13 are completely up in the air. Probably 5 more are uncertain, at best. There sure is going to be competition all over the place.

Anyone remember this?...I'm sure it was posted

ESPN gives the Browns an F+ for free agency

Josh Edwards - Apr 2, 5:30 PM
link

The Cleveland Browns have received an F+ for their efforts, or lack thereof, in free agency from ESPN. The Browns received the lowest grade across the NFL despite the recent addition of quarterback Robert Griffin III.

In addition to Griffin, the Browns added safety Rahim Moore, inside linebacker Demario Davis, inside linebacker Justin Tuggle and offensive lineman Alvin Bailey. However, they lost center Alex Mack, offensive tackle Mitchell Schwartz, wide receiver Travis Benjamin, safety Tashaun Gipson and more.

Here is what the website had to say about the moves (subscription required):

Adding Griffin on a two-year contract could not make up for the talent drain Cleveland facilitated for the second straight offseason. The Browns already had holes throughout their roster. Now, there are more holes. The players the Browns let go weren't good enough by themselves to make Cleveland relevant, but in some cases their departures make the team that much further away from competing.

"This looks to me like a baseball tear-down," Polian said. "I'm saying it because [Paul] DePodesta is there. That is the only thing that explains it. The problem is, in baseball, you own the player for six years. In the NFL, essentially you own the player for three years. The math doesn't work. They have lost eight starters who should be the core of their team to free agency in two years. What is that about? You are going to have to be almost 100 percent hit rate in the draft to get it back where it was, which wasn't good enough."

Adding more picks is the best way to increase a team's odds for success in the draft. The Browns will add compensatory selections next offseason. Griffin's addition suggests they could be interested in moving back from the second overall spot in the draft instead of selecting a quarterback in that slot. A move along those lines would arm the Browns with even more picks.

"Losing Alex Mack and Mitch Schwartz, a favorite of mine, and Travis Benjamin when you have nobody at the wide receiver position -- damn," Riddick said. "Bademosi was a wrecker on special teams, too. You'd better hit on all your draft picks. They should have signed Schwartz and kept Benjamin. I cannot give them the benefit of the doubt like I would Carolina."

Adding Griffin made sense in some respects, but the money Cleveland committed to him was puzzling.

"Who did the Browns think they were bidding against to justify paying him $6.75 million in 2016?" Riddick asked. "With this contract, is he considered a bridge quarterback to the future drafted franchise QB, or are they now out of the QB market? Griffin impressing Browns brass in a private workout is one of the more ridiculous reasons I could imagine for signing a player. I mean, we try to downplay rookie draft prospect pro days, but now we are glorifying a private workout by a veteran QB?"

Yates was less pointed in his criticism. Who else at this point were the Browns going to pay? And if they were going to overpay, why not do so with at least a shot at finding a long-term quarterback?

"There's going to be a temptation to evaluate this move through the lens of, 'Does Robert Griffin III solve the Browns' omnipresent quarterback quandary?'" Yates said. "The truth is, even if he doesn't become the long-term starter, one can understand why Cleveland threw the dart on signing him. A coach doesn't acquire a player who has recently struggled and say to himself, 'There's more where that came from.' A coach needs to believe in his ability to tutor players, something I'm sure Hue Jackson feels here. The team is flush with cap space, so while this isn't entirely a low-risk maneuver from a financial standpoint, it's a calculated move to upgrade a position of need. It would be no surprise if Cleveland still used the second overall pick in the draft on a quarterback."

The Browns could still have some small scale additions over the next few months. Teams will continue releasing players as well which opens up a new market. While there is still time, the team is likely done before they got started. Griffin is the only player that jumps off the page as a player of intrigue.

The front office will begin building their team through the NFL Draft which takes place in Chicago, Illinois starting on April 28.

Here we are, just a month and half later and I read this...

ESPN gives Browns’ offseason an A- grade

byScott SargentSCOTT SARGENT inHEADLINES
link


It can’t be denied that the Cleveland Browns’ offseason got off to a tumultuous, oftentimes painful start. On the first day of free agency, several of the Browns’ key, talented players left town, this just days after Sashi Brown, the team’s new VP of Football Operations, stated that his goal was to retain said players. The team undoubtedly got worse, but then the story continued to unfold. Draft picks were traded, more draft picks were traded, 14 players were drafted, and 11 more were signed after the completion. Though a ton of dust was dumped upon Berea in March, with things clearing out in May, things may not be looking so bleak.

According to ESPN.com’s Bill Barnwell, not only did the Browns’ entire offseason rank as an A-, the new-look front office orchestrated the best maneuvering out of any front office in the AFC North. While Barnwell still questions the team’s approach during the first day of free agency, he absolutely loved what the front office did in the way of its draft capital, not just this season, but for years to come.

Here’s Barnwell via ESPN.com:

The cumulative return they got for their moves, then, was pretty staggering. Even after making the Wentz deal before the draft, they traded down four different times during the draft weekend, taking advantage of teams that felt like they were smarter than the rest of the league. Five times! They ended up making 14 selections, including eight picks across the fourth and fifth rounds, and have a staggering amount of capital set up in the years to come. In 2017, they’ll have an extra first-round pick (from the Eagles), second-round pick (Titans), third-round pick (Eagles) and as many as three fourth-round picks as compensation for losing free agents. They’re down their own fourth-round pick from the Wentz trade and have essentially swapped seventh-round picks with the Colts, but otherwise, they still have their own 2017 picks to work with and a 2018 second-rounder coming from Philadelphia, too. …

Per the Chase Stuart draft chart, by even a conservative estimate, the Browns added 32 points of draft capital to their coffers with their trades. To put that in context, the expected return from the No. 1 pick in a typical draft is 34.6 points. Throw in the expected value of the four compensatory picks the Browns will receive after losing free agents, and they’re up to 43.9 points of added draft capital this offseason. That’s as aggressive of a game plan as any one organization has executed in a single offseason in recent memory.
Think about that. The Browns added what equates to the first-overall pick if they’re being valued conservatively. A ton of early mock drafts have the Browns with two top-five picks next season as the Philadelphia Eagles are projected to still be a mess. The four second-round picks in the next two seasons is just added sweetener.

Barnwell quickly bagged any notion that what the Browns did will fail strictly because they’re the Browns. That basis may make for great fodder, but he compared it to maxing out one’s 401K—the market may go down, but it’s still the right move. He also appreciated the low-risk addition of Robert Griffin III. Whether the Browns will turn to Cody Kessler or draft a quarterback in 2017, that Griffin has no guaranteed money beyond this season bodes well for their financial situation. If he surprises, great—it costs the team nothing beyond what’s already paid out. If he struggles, the team is that much closer to the top pick in next year’s draft.

Another interesting mark against the Browns, however, was not trading offensive tackle Joe Thomas. A Hall of Fame player still playing at an elite level is a good thing to have, but not capitalizing on his value when he won’t be at that level come potential contention time was the basis for a faint, red X.

Barnwell doesn’t think the Browns are done as they still have plenty of holes to fill with $30 million in cap space remaining. The talent pool is depleted, but there may still be some upgrades to be had. Upgrade, after all, is a relative term.

I realize ESPN is a big place, but the credibility of the entire ESPN brand takes a hit when they start talking out of both ends of their body, totally ignoring the story they posted just a month and half ago.

The way I see it, the Browns front office totally failed, earning themselves the F+ that ESPN gave them for the first half of the offseason and IMO, ESPN was very generous in their A- grade for the draft. The two add up to about a C or maybe a C+.

Mac, mac, mac...very conservative of you. The two articles above were written at different times by two different guys, with the draft as a further variable in the second article. If RGIII studs out, an "F' rating is totally unjustified, perhaps so even if he only proves out as capable. Overall, as they say: one man's garbage is another man's treasure...

I don't understand this logic whatsoever. Are you suggesting that ESPN should have one universal thought on each team? No matter the show, analyst, writer, etc? Varying opinions shouldn't matter?

Putting aside anyone's view of ESPN as a media outlet (I know I have my issues with it at times) having one singular opinion about a team's offseason (or anything for that matter) is a little nuts.

This Barnwell guy, from what I understand, came from the analytics end of things- which is why he likes it. Bill Polian, although I haven't read anything on him, could hate it. And old school guy like Casserly on NFL Network didn't come across as too pleased with it. That's the great thing about having a large media outlet with varying opinions---everyone has a different angle. No one is "ignoring" a previous article as you suggested. Someone just sees it different.

I don't follow whatsoever how two articles with two different opinions on the Cleveland Browns (of all organizations) hurts the brand of ESPN.

Skip Bayless, Stephen A Smith, Ray Lewis, Chris Carter hurt the brand of ESPN as general personalities. Not two varying opinions of an offseason.

Memphis: Polian's book The Game Plan is an excellent read. Highly recommended by yours truly...

Indeed, eo! From what I have observed, only a very small minority felt trading JT was the way to go...

j/c:



https://twitter.com/brentsobleski/status/731107687547719681

Here's the thing.... this FO has said (like they all do) we're focused on the draft and retaining our own. In 2017, there really isn't anyone worthy of a large, second contract on the team right now. K'Wan Williams might be kept but probably shouldn't be anything too crazy. Crowell hasn't proven to be a feature back. Gordon's situation is probably one that ends IF he is ever reinstated. Maybe, if RG3 returns to 2012 form it allows the Browns to extend him one year out of FA. That's a huge "if".

I think it's very possible all three of these guys mentioned in the tweet aren't on the team next year, so it'll be interesting what the FO does with so much money. Can they just sit on it praying for 2018 as the year to make that big leap? I know they have to spend a certain amount, but from what I understand, they've met that threshold. $63M is a lot of money, and here we are again as potentially a team at the top of the cap space game.

If he studs out this season, I tear up his contract and offer him a 5 yr. $80-100 million. We would have finally found our "guy". Yes, I realize that is a huge "if"...

CNN? FoxNews?

I think we'll be too pleased with Kruger's performance under Hortons scheme, we'll gladly eat the cap to keep him. The others maybe not so much. Bryant seems to be either hot or cold, more so cold. Williams, eh, I think we all are bitter with him due to last year but he was asked to lineup against #1s, which isn't his realm anymore.

Lolz.