DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum cont...The Browns Front Office...ready for prime time?...

Lennon claimed he wrote the first two lines on separate acid trips; he explained much of the song to Playboy in 1980:[3]

The first line was written on one acid trip one weekend. The second line was written on the next acid trip the next weekend, and it was filled in after I met Yoko..

The lyrics came from three song ideas that Lennon had been working on, the first of which was inspired by hearing a police siren at his home in Weybridge; Lennon wrote the lines "Mis-ter cit-y police-man" to the rhythm and melody of the siren. The second idea was a short rhyme about Lennon sitting in his garden, while the third was a nonsense lyric about sitting on a corn flake. Unable to finish the three different songs, he combined them into one. The lyrics also included the phrase "Lucy in the sky," a reference to the Beatles' earlier song "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds."

The walrus refers to Lewis Carroll's poem "The Walrus and the Carpenter" (from the book Through the Looking-Glass). Lennon expressed dismay upon belatedly realising that the walrus was a villain in the poem.[1]

The final piece of the song came together when Lennon's friend and former fellow member of the Quarrymen, Peter Shotton, visited and Lennon asked him about a playground nursery rhyme they sang as children.

This argument, again??????? Were you and tab there?

What makes you so certain that Farmer said to NOT negotiate contracts w/those players?

The burden of proof needs to be on the guys making stuff up. Farmer was in charge of the 53 man roster. What makes you so certain that he DID say to negotiate and was ignored?

Farmer does have a track record of not resigning free agents. Ward, Sheard, Skrine... He also made the decision to let Mack test the market the first time which resulted in not only making Mack the highest paid Center, but allowed him to opt out this year as well. In fact, Farmer hasn't kept any of our FA's that wasn't an RFA or ERFA since he has had the job.

So forgive me if I tend to believe what history has demonstrated to be true in the past over what a guy on a message board invents today.

I never said I was certain. And I agree w/you that tab and ddub need to prove that is how it went down.

All I know are these things:

--Farmer was GM and in charge, at least in name.

--There were many voices w/in the FO when it came to making decisions.

--Sashi's job was to negotiate contracts.

--Those free agents were not resigned early.

--Those free agents all left the Browns after Farmer was gone.

--The teams that signed those free agents did not have as much time to sign those players as the Browns did, and that is true even if you eliminate the time when Farmer was there.


You see, I am not the one making bold claims that Farmer prevented Sashi from re-signing the free agents. I am simply saying that all of those free agents are no longer w/the team. So.......who really has the burden of proof here?

Yup...
http://www.stampedeblue.com/2015/5/19/86...ree-years-colts

According to Football Outsiders' Scott Kacsmar, no quarterback in the NFL has been knocked down more than Andrew Luck has been over the last three seasons.


It's a far too common sight for Colts fans: quarterback Andrew Luck, the face of the franchise and the main reason why the team has been in the playoffs the last three years, on the ground after getting hit. Whether he gets the throw off before (or as) he gets hit or whether he gets sacked, there's no doubt to people who watch the Colts play that Luck is on the ground too much.

In fact, according to Football Outsiders' Scott Kacsmar, no quarterback has been knocked down more than Andrew Luck has been over the last three seasons, with Luck leading the league in that category for three years in a row.


QB knockdowns (hits + sacks)
2012 leader - Andrew Luck (122)
2013 leader - Andrew Luck (115)
2014 leader - Andrew Luck (115)

The team's offensive line has been a major concern ever since Luck arrived in Indy (and well before that, also), but it hasn't been because of a lack of effort from general manager Ryan Grigson. If you look at the projected starting offensive line for the Colts in 2015, all but one of them were brought in by Grigson, with the lone outlier being left tackle Anthony Castonzo, who had a terrific season in 2014 and is clearly the team's best lineman. Jack Mewhort was drafted in the second round last year. Khaled Holmes was drafted in the fourth round of the 2013 draft. Todd Herremans was signed as a free agent this offseason. And Gosder Cherilus was signed as a free agent in the 2013 offseason. Furthermore, Grigson has signed Donald Thomas in free agency, drafted Hugh Thornton in the third round of the 2013 draft, and re-signed Joe Reitz this offseason, along with other moves. You could make the legitimate case that the line has seen marginal improvement in each of Luck's three seasons, but the bottom line is that the line still hasn't been great. And while this year's unit clearly looks to be the best one yet in the Andrew Luck era, it likely still won't be great.

But let's also realize that it's not all on the offensive line, and I think this tweet from Kacsmar a few days ago is absolutely spot-on:



The number of hits that Andrew Luck takes will seem higher than some others because of the volume of throws that the Colts attempt, as well as the style of play that the quarterback utilizes. He moves around and isn't afraid to take a hit, sometimes resulting in him taking more hits than necessary.

The bottom line is that Andrew Luck has been hit - a lot - in his first three years in the league, and considering how important he is to the Colts' franchise, that's something that needs to change moving forward. He's an incredibly tough player and is able to take a lot of hits, but they add up over time and it'd be better not to test just how tough he actually is. That's why the Colts continue to try to improve their offensive line, and hopefully this year's unit works out. There are still question marks (namely at the center position and about Gosder Cherilus' health), but the Colts look to have the best line they've had in Luck's time yet. Of course, considering that he's been knocked down than any other quarterback in each of the last three years, that might not be saying a whole lot.

am i missing something. i thought alot of the players that left the last 3 years we DID negotiate with most. and everyone kept saying "good we didnt overpay" ok who job is it other than the cap guy that say what the price is going to be?

That isn't a bold claim that is a job description.

Farmer was in charge of the 53 man roster, not Sashi. It was his job to have the guys that he wanted on that roster, not Sashi.

The bold claims come from the guys saying Sashi could somehow circumvent Farmer.

Without a link those claims remain totally invented by message board posters.

Are you pretending to not understand this on purpose or do you really not know?

If the GM is in charge of the roster, the 53 guys that he wants are on the roster.

The GM doesn't settle for the 53 guys someone else chooses to sign for him. Even with someone negotiating for him all the players on the team are playing for the price that the GM chooses to pay them or lower.

We get that you and Verse don't like the FO, but nobody is buying that the last 2 years of FA were Sashi's fault no matter what lengths you go to by stretching the truth.

I don't. You just started the thread and I should have hit the other reply button.

They where all given offer sheets.
They set their value. That's really all you can debate.
You can't make a player sign a contract with you (lF) said player doesn't want to play here.

Other than BJ,...who else even cared to play here?

Would you have offered the contract he got from SD?

They where FREE AGENTS ... you want to make it like we kicked them to the curb. That's not the reality you are so vehemently trying to portray.

Every player is replaceable.

Would you rather they over paid?

Don't forget that there is also a third party involed.

Oh man, we'd have heard complaints about that also.. I guarantee.

I think we'd all like to have retained Mack and Schwartz.. The others like Gipson and Benji I think were viewed as replaceable. Perhaps not easily, but still replaceable just the same.

Kinda looks like we've replaced everyone we lost. The question is, are the replacements as good? gonna have to wait and see.

People are inventing and making things up alright. No doubt about that. And it's the same people as usual.

Btw---------I never said I didn't like the FO. I judge each move individually. For example, I like them bringing in RGIII. I like that they traded out of #2 to get all those draft picks. I like the Ogbah pick. I'm okay w/the Coleman pick. I could go on, but that should suffice.

Oh, and I find it extremely revealing that the same guys who bashed some of us less than a year ago for questioning Farmer and Pet are now blaming those two for all the Brown's issues.

Like I said you can debate whether the Browns offer was prudent or not, but the one thing we know is that for the next four years thoughs replacements will be cheaper. Of course we still don't know what we have in the way of replacements. Then there's the residual problem of getting the veteran players to by into another culture after a disastrously time spent here.

We don't just chew up QB's here in Cleveland. No we dont discriminate, we have been the bone yard for many a Coach's and FO personnel a like.

Funny how that works isn't it Vers?

You get lambasted until everyone figures out you were right all along.

Damn!.....Why hasn't Hue Jackson got us in the playoffs yet?

You're ignoring the reality of it. People uphold every regime until they are fired. Then suddenly they talk about how bad they were all along. It's like the flavor of the month.

Now I have reservations about the football minds in the FO, but I haven't seen anyone to this point claim they will fail. I haven't seen anyone trash them. I have seen people question some of their moves while supporting others.

That's called being objective. Then we have people who think everything they do is fabulous and get their claws out when anyone questions anything they do.

So you can tell me which one is realistic and which one is unrealistic. Haven't you seen this movie enough times yet?

Wouldn't bashing or boasting about our current FO be a little premature?

It's know different whether entering into debate or battle you don't proceed in either without ammo.

Just clicked on you to comment on the condition our condition is in.

That beats trying to get an early start on the Sashi bashing this year by pretending that he was the GM last year any day.

We should just keep working down the FO list until we get to the ball boy in case he gets promoted too.

One guy was in charge of the 53 man roster last year, so if you don't like the fact that we lost guys this year that we should have signed last year then you can complain about that guy or the owner, but that's all you got. Anything else is fantasy and conjecture.

You didn't find me in the Farmer fan corner last year. The Pettine corner maybe at one time because I still think he was given a no win situation. He did some things last year that I wasn't a fan of either though.

I would completely agree. That's why I say all we can do is look objectively at each move on a case by case basis. Now I don't believe we will all have the same view of each move, but I believe all we can do is look at each move and draw our own conclusions based upon that.

I don't believe there's enough evidence to say one way or the at this juncture. Far too early for that.

As they say "the proof is in the pudding".

It's not about Farmer saying NOT to negotiate. It's about WHY would Sashi negotiate if he hadn't been told to do so.

Excuse me if I think I'm right about this, (having not been there and all), but it seems logical that negotiations begin when Farmers tells him to begin. Farmer says, "Sashi, I want to re-sign this guy. I want him on the roster going forward." At that negotiations begin.

This other idea that Sashi, on his own, decides who HE WANTS on the roster going forward and begins negotiations with the player behind Farmer's back or over his head.

Farmer was in charge of the 53. By what authority would Sashi begin negotiations with a player and his agent without being told to do so by Farmer? One one hand it would be a waste of time if Farmer doesn't want the player, on the other hand it's stepping way out of bounds, beyond his job description, for him to make decisions on the 53 and then take action towards that decision.

If what you are trying to say is that Farmer told Sashi to begin negotiations with specific players but Sashi refused, or drug his feet, or couldn't make any progress, or was otherwise inept in those negotiations doesn't make sense given his rise to his current position/title.

I realize that some will say that it's just like Haslem to promote a guy to being in charge of the 53 when he failed so miserably in carrying out simple assignments give him by the GM.

Blaming Sashi for not having tied up our FAs last year is one such invention.

What makes your scenario, (you weren't there), right when other's opinions are wrong?

Where were you when the set-up of the FO announcement was made?

I spent the first week speaking against the new FO setup with no football guys, and then the next two/three weeks defending the possibility that it might have merit, while I fielded arguments against that possibility and was "vilified" and labeled "positive".

^THIS

Oh the humanity! LOL

Being positive has somehow become a negative thing.

The only person who could have made that decision unilaterally is Haslam. Instead, I think that when the decision to bring in Depodesta was made, the strategy was adopted to go with younger, cheaper players. It all comes back to the way Depodesta has operated in baseball. It's part of bringing him on board.

This is not an indictment, just an explanation for how the team got to where they are now.

I believe that Sashi set his price for re-signing each free agent (this year). I think Hue, Depo, and maybe Haslam had some input, but in the end Sashi is the guy I'm going to look back on as making the decision in the future. I do not like that Schwartz, Gibson, and Mack were on the Market to begin with and I blame that on Farmer.

I don't think the ball boy, the ticket lady, or the beer guy played a role in our roster in the past, present, or future. (Although a homeless guy might have)

All were given fair offers. They didn't want to sign. I am getting tired of this conversation. It's pointless.

Screw the guys who left. We won 3 games with them. I bet we win more without them.

I haven't made any such outrageous claims like you and tab are.

Show me where I said that Sashi didn't try to keep those guys despite Farmer telling him to do so.

I'll be waiting........

Being objective has somehow become a negative thing.

oh dear god, this is almost the definition of insanity. we have been beating this dead horse so long the we not even beating the dead horse anymore...we have beaten the horse, the dead horse, the skeletal remains, the dead horses soul, and the damn "Farmer" (couldn't resist) clear to oblivion and back.

Clue Cleveland Browns edition

Farmer in Cleveland on the phone with Banner who had a candle stick holder he got from Colonel Mustard.