DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum cont...The Browns Front Office...ready for prime time?...

It was GREED that killed the deal.

IMO, it wasn't arbitrary at all. My understanding it was prior to the start of the FA period. And, as MKC reported (!), Schwartz went back to the Browns in the hours before FA started, how could he have signed on the first day of the FA period with KC if they didn't already have a deal in place?

And that's fine. Every business owner has the right to make that call.

Problem being, let's look at our situation.

We have two veteran QB's. Each has a pretty sketchy injury history. To have any chance of success, we have to protect them. So if they actually had "another direction" in which they replaced Schwartz with as good a player or better, then their plan was a success. If not, then they really didn't have another plan or their plan was a failure.

Sorry, but I don't see where they replaced Schwartz. I believe it will be yet another hole that was created. I think it was simply a power play where the player was denied a chance to look at the market.

I think it sends a poor message to our other players. I feel it makes the quote I have from sashi in my signature hollow and void.

I don't see that our players were "rewarded for doing it the right way." Unless you consider the right way, "Sign when we say or else."

And there you have it.

Taken somewhat out of context, Pit. Was his agent present? Does the fact that he signed with KC so soon thereafter, that it 'could' indicate that his agent either bungled the Browns deal, or that it was negotiated in bad faith? I don't know, and we likely never will. But I do not believe in coincidences...

I don't feel you need to deal with coincidences. He offered to sign before the FA process began. Supposedly that was the deadline. Now do agents talk contracts with other teams before the FA process? Yes and I believe they have three days prior to the beginning of the FA process to do that now.

Point being, whether his agent was present or not, Schwartz agreed to the deal before the FA period began. Unless you want to side step the issue or blatantly refuse to see that he met the Browns demands, I don't see anything that shows he didn't do what the Browns expected of him according to your own source.

Neither. You seem to see the issue from one side and I, the other side. It would be nice to know the true sequence of events but this will probably never be known...

What did you prove? Where did I say that Farmer asked Sashi to re-sign those guys.

No poster has been wrong more than you. You insult everyone who tries to be objective. Later, you blame the guys you were vigorously defending. You make things up all the time You suck as a poster. I waited for 50 insults by you to make this post.

Now go off like you are the victim.

I have no idea why he's attacking you and pit. It's quite troubling.

I agree. The next time the Browns make someone an offer with a deadline, the agent will think twice about doing that.

He's done it for years. I typically wait until about 50 insults and then I fire back. He then cries about how I am attacking him. The guy has been wrong more than anyone on the board, yet he never stops belittling those who have been proven right WAY more often than he has. And he gets away w/it. Amazing!

Sometimes, people forget that this is still a people business.

He was only being paid to do that if he was told by Farmer to do that. If Farmer didn't tell him to do that, then he can't be held accountable for not doing it while Farmer was here. You held/hold Sashi accountable, (some call it blame), for not negotiating new contracts even though you admit he may not have been told to negotiate new contracts at all.

That's where my argument in the debate comes in. Was Sashi supposed to negotiate new contracts for the players in question all on his own, ignoring higher authorities? I don't think so. This is also where you accuse me of making things up, even though it makes perfect sense to me for Sashi to wait until he's told to negotiate before he does it.


Vers, it really doesn't matter to me. Everyone says what they think, not always what they know, but what they think. In the end they'll either be right or wrong for that, which is something else I don't care about. But this idea that someone is making up lies by stating their opinion whereas when you state your opinion it is to be considered as a truth.

Schwartz
1) We offered Schwartz $7 mil
2) He thought he could be worth $8-10 mil
3) He shopped it around.
4) Nobody bit.
5) He made a bad choice.

Sashi
1) Last year deciding who was re-signed was not his job.
2) This year it is.

I am real tired of arguing w/you about this. I don't get how you can't comprehend that Sashi was in charge of contract negotiations. Are you telling me he just served Farmer coffee? And if he had NO SAY in anything the Browns did the past couple of years, how the hell did he get promoted to the MAIN MAN? Did Jimmy just draw straws? Jesus, man!

And I don't get this comment:



Please expound.

expounding...

Negotiating contracts is not deciding who is resigned. If he low-balled a player that Farmer wanted, Farmer would tell him to up the offer and get it done. Bosses tend to do that.

Now go get my coffee.

Prove that he did not handle contract negotiations last year.

And this year, he did NOT re-sign key free agents.

Look..........I am neutral on Sashi. I think he deserves some blame w/his handling of free agency. On the other hand, I like the RGIII move, the trade out of two move, and a few of his draft picks.

I think that ANYONE who thinks every move he has made is either good or bad is full of freaking crap. And I am damn tired of guys like you belittling people who are trying to be objective.

Held.

So........you are claiming that Farmer told Sashi to NOT try and negotiate w/any of our top four free agents???????

Are you telling me that Farmer did want to re-sign one of these guys and decided it would be best to leave up to Sashi on how bad we wanted them and as the season went on Farmer just kind of forget that he wanted to re-sign these guys? Or maybe Farmer decided to just let the contract negotiator do part of his job for him and make the decision on who is on the 53 man roster? Or maybe Farmer was too busy texting and Sashi was doing his job the entire time? Or maybe Farmer normally decides that in the first few weeks of the season and since he was suspended he skipped that part?

Whether or not those guys were re-signed was Farmer's job plain and simple. If he was leaving that up to Sashi it's just another reason that he should have been fired.

I think we may wish to see how the RT position pans out the next couple of years before we actually state who made a bad choice.

As of now, we have two veteran QB's with injury histories. Not paying to protect them may have been the worst choice of all. Time will tell on that one.

You don't have to wait to see that Schwartz lost more money by not taking the offer. He lost for sure. Now for the Browns, we do have to wait a bit.

ummm...yes the FO is ready for prime time...

Why answer a question w/a question? LOL...........I just did.

I don't know exactly what happened. My point all along when debating tab and ddub is that they do NOT know either. Sheesh!

So...........you think that our new RT is going to be as good or better than Schwartz?

That's objective.

I think he meant that we will see, with time, whether is was a good thing for the Browns.

I agreed with Pitdawg on having to wait and see how the RT position pans out.

How can you possibly warp that into me liking a draft pick above Schwartz?

Tell me who is really being objective here Verse?

You know, I'd actually have to see the contracts, which we never will. The only money players care about in their contracts is the guaranteed money. None of the rest of it can be counted on. You know, it's the NFL way. Players are bound to their contracts but the teams aren't.

So I wonder just how much difference there was in guaranteed money? Only then would we know the real answer. And there's not a dogs chance in hell anyone we drafted can replace Schwartz level of play for quite a while.

Wonder how many injuries will happen because of it? I mean both of the veterans on the roster have an excellent history of staying healthy and all.

j/c

Looking at the Schwartz issue from another perspective: I wonder why he couldn't get the type of deal elsewhere that he was seeking. At 8-10 million/year, he probably overestimated the value of an RT.(And yes, I realize that that position is becoming of more significance). Surely there were more than 1 or 2 teams looking to upgrade their RT spot. Perhaps they didn't think as highly of MS as we, and some sites, did...

His peers and fans, too (although that's of less siginificance) elected him to a pro bowl, solid RT who IIRC remained healthy.,he was definitely a loss.

The rumor was that Mack got more guaranteed with with the Chiefs, but I didn't see a comparison on guaranteed money on Schwartz.

I misunderstood you. My apologies.

I accept that, lamp, but why couldn't he find a "home" elsewhere, similar to the Browns offer? No team wanted, or could use, a Pro Bowl RT? And before anyone thinks otherwise, I was a Schwartz pimp since (perhaps even before) the Senior Bowl in the year he was drafted. Even when others got on his case, I always liked MS...

No problem.

Fair question, that one is. Still, he's a big loss and a hole that needs to be filled.

His departure does leave a hole to be filled. At this time, we do have a few options for the position. I don't expect the Oline to come together quickly, but as Pit said, it's going to take a while. How long is anyone's guess right now...

I have never stated or claimed that I know what happened. I have only stated my thoughts and opinions and they are usually qualified by I think or I believe.

Like here?????