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On the other hand, you do have to admit---well, you don't have to---that I raised some valid points. You raised some points. I don't think any are all that valid and I would be shocked if they were true.
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Really? Haslam didn't ask for the tax payers to pay for his facility in Columbus? He didn't have to pay over $150 million in penalties? He didn't authorize stadium upgrades? He didn't approve new uniforms? He did keep his quality free agents?
Wow...........learn something new every day.
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Those things may be true, but to suggest that they say anything of anything even remotely approaching significance about the financial status of him, the team, or Pilot is beyond a reach. It's actually more akin to attempting to manufacture a paper argument, really.... it's thin. Really thin. Moving TC to Columbus... while I'm with you in that if he wants to move it, he should pay for it, the reality is that this isn't how sports franchises in America work; or any business for that matter. Those with leverage within a city make use of it. Penalties? Big deal. They're paid (or will be) and are a pittance compared to the revenues of that company. Stadium Upgrades? Again, paid for largely by taxpayers, but the team also footed a chunk of that bill as well. Still.... how is this a financial negative in any way?? Seriously. Uniforms -- umm, really? I think Fonzie just jumped the shark on this one, hehe  You're reaching.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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Really? Haslam didn't ask for the tax payers to pay for his facility in Columbus? He didn't have to pay over $150 million in penalties? He didn't authorize stadium upgrades? He didn't approve new uniforms? He did keep his quality free agents?
Wow...........learn something new every day. I didn't say they were incorrect.
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jc...
Looking at the financial health of the Browns owner might give us a hint into the operation of the franchise.
Pilot Flying J's financial health must be considered too, IMO. Have the fines and lawsuits been an issue for Haslm and how he is opporating his franchise?I believe Haslam owed the Gov. 92 mill to settle that case..then there were all the individual lawsuits with who knows how many trucking firms...just to mention some of extra expenses the Browns ownership has had to face in recent years.
Until someone is able take a detailed look into Haslan's finances to determine if he is in trouble, that possibility could be a legitimate concern. It might help to explain why the franchise was not interested in signing our own free agents.
Jmho..Mac
I do understand that some of you guys just dislike Haslam.. I get that. But this is just unreasonable thinking. Haslams worth vs Pilot/Flying J worth are two completely seperate things. And the third leg is the Browns which is it's own entity. I think the last time I heard discussion of Haslams net worth it was something in the 2 billion dollar range. Seems light to me but hey, what do I know. I believe that the last I heard of PFJ, it had sales in the 28 billion dollar range. Admittedly, that was a few years ago and could very well have changed. I suspect upwards but can't or won't bother looking it up. The NFL is a whole different business. You've got a cap on what you can spend on player salaries and you have revenue streams coming from everywhere. I'm sure all three have very healthy bottom lines. You are trying to draw a line directly between Haslams net worth and what's happening to the Browns. Not a very good line of thinking. I admit however, there was an owner that supposedly was losing his shirt, Art Modell. Haslam, with all his faults, isn't Art Modell. Not even close.
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Damanshot
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I'm not saying that those things are proof. I am saying they should be considered when evaluating on how Haslam approaches things. I think it is more of a "reach" to ignore his history when evaluating his current moves that involve money.
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Meh...... overthinking.
He's an owner... of course money will be a factor in things. He didn't buy the team solely for the joy of owning it, or out of some crazed sense of nobility - and he definitely didn't buy it to lose money.
However, to look at that list and jump to the conclusion that everything is motivated by money is taking a bit of an extreme and narrow view of things.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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I thought Scheiner was in charge of business operations, Farmer the roster and Pettine the on the field product and they all reported directly to Haslam. Whatever the background, he is Haslam’s new GM. Alec Scheiner will stay on as president, handling business rather than football matters.
“I’m excited to work directly with ‘Pet,’ Alec and Ray,” Haslam said. “I believe we have positioned this organization to be a winning football team.” That last part really hurts...
Scheiner had a lot more decision making than Sashi...as stated he WAS THE BOSS.
What I have as proof is the demoting of his duties that he brought as Power to the table in football matters as well as "BUSINESS" which you wish me to be incorrect and all he ran was the business end.
I also got a feeling on this when he attended the Coaches meeting and film process every MONDAY with FARMER...what "Business" only dude does that. He was way more involved in the decision process especially FA dealings that Sashi Brown...yes Sashi did the contracts and limited negotiations. With the power people like Scheiner and Farmer I can guarantee there were laid out parameters of what Sashi could/would be able to do.
I know, I know, where is the direct link stating those things. Sometimes you must deduce, I say Sherlock Holmes it. Judge Judy...it has to make sense.
So when they say CUT HIS FOOTBALL duties that means HE HAD THEM!
jmho - I think he wanted to take over the POWER Void left by Banner on his departure.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Eo, in all honesty, as President of the Club, he had responsibilities for every facet of the clubs operations on and off the field. That's his job.
So, for anyone to say he didn't have responsibilities for the On Field stuff is wrong. The question is, how much did he have. I suspect not much.
But then, with a weak link like Farmer (who I hoped would be successful) maybe he felt he had to step in. That's what good managers do when they see things going the wrong way.
#GMSTRONG
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Damanshot
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When there is a void of power...it gets filled. In this case Scheiner filled the void of Banner and it was a pretty large power void.
That is just history of the world.
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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When there is a void of power...it gets filled. In this case Scheiner filled the void of Banner and it was a pretty large power void.
That is just history of the world. Did he? I mean, I wasn't in the building so I don't know who filled what void.
#GMSTRONG
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Daniel Patrick Moynahan
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I thought Scheiner was in charge of business operations, Farmer the roster and Pettine the on the field product and they all reported directly to Haslam. Whatever the background, he is Haslam’s new GM. Alec Scheiner will stay on as president, handling business rather than football matters.
“I’m excited to work directly with ‘Pet,’ Alec and Ray,” Haslam said. “I believe we have positioned this organization to be a winning football team.” That last part really hurts...
Scheiner had a lot more decision making than Sashi...as stated he WAS THE BOSS.
What I have as proof is the demoting of his duties that he brought as Power to the table in football matters as well as "BUSINESS" which you wish me to be incorrect and all he ran was the business end.
I also got a feeling on this when he attended the Coaches meeting and film process every MONDAY with FARMER...what "Business" only dude does that. He was way more involved in the decision process especially FA dealings that Sashi Brown...yes Sashi did the contracts and limited negotiations. With the power people like Scheiner and Farmer I can guarantee there were laid out parameters of what Sashi could/would be able to do.
I know, I know, where is the direct link stating those things. Sometimes you must deduce, I say Sherlock Holmes it. Judge Judy...it has to make sense.
So when they say CUT HIS FOOTBALL duties that means HE HAD THEM!
jmho - I think he wanted to take over the POWER Void left by Banner on his departure.
I'm sorry but where did it say he was demoted from having authority over football matters? It just says that he will remain president with authority over business matters. No where does it say that, that was a change. As for him being the meeting rooms, that was a huge issue with Farmer if I remember correctly and it wouldn't have been if Scheiner was responsible for the players. He may have been TRYING to take that over, but nothing suggests that he did.
Last in, first out, the sign of a true champion!![[Linked Image from i301.photobucket.com]](http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn59/Stetson1376/c8f5fed9-fc01-4b87-bda3-b2b53f0b16cb_zpse708e05e.jpg)
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...where did it say he was demoted from having authority over football matters? Inferred more than actually stated. I think it is a reasonable assumption (yes, I know) that his "duties" were reduced. Not a stretch to call it a demotion...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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...where did it say he was demoted from having authority over football matters? Inferred more than actually stated. I think it is a reasonable assumption (yes, I know) that his "duties" were reduced. Not a stretch to call it a demotion... I just don't recall at any point where it was said that his duties were reduced. If they were then it was totally a demotion. My understanding is that he was always the business guy and while I could be wrong I didn't see anything in that article that supported the assumption that he was ever anything but.
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It just says that he will remain president with authority over business matters. No where does it say that, that was a change.
I hilighted it for you in Bold...did you miss it???
"IT JUST SAYS...actually you left out the entire 2nd part of the sentence of what it says. Oh I'm sorry it didn't specifically say the word "CHANGE" in there...what a fool I am...oh my bad!
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Where did I say that everything was motivated by money? I think my stance is far more open-minded than yours.
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Alec Scheiner will stay on as president, handling business rather than football matters. I see this quote and then I read your comments. They don't correlate. Perhaps I misreading you. What's your point, again? I mean......other than that you are a victim...
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My point for you and others. It has been stated that all Scheiner was involved with was the Business so you and others could put more blame on Sashi in your agenda regarding the 4 FA who left when stated this regime is new and had 1-2 months to undue their feelings in staying or going.
I was trying to show that Scheiner was more involved in this process...which btw almost to the man while he was here the same posters were pissing and moaning about his INVOLVEMENT other than business.
In that Quote which was redefining who was in charge...it stated that his total focus would be on Business matters "Rather than Football Matters"
Which I don't know I guess to those that have an agenda does not say nothing at all. I for one think its rather common sense. "rather" indicates that he had CONTROL in football matters. I don't see how it cannot. If you and others wish to be totally ignorant of that fact because the QUOTE did not state the word "CHANGE" from football matters...they used the word "Rather" so according your agenda Sashi had all the control there.
My point again. Scheiner wielded a lot of power after Banner left cause Banner was a totalitarian leader and when ousted there was a large power void in the organization.
For the business guy to attend Coaches film meeting on Monday...which you were there complaining on from the get go.
Now somehow doesn't exist and Scheiner was simply a business guy and therefor those contract decisions fell heavily on Sashi.
I cannot spell out my point any clearer. Now turn this somehow around as an insult to me. Yeah I'm the victim...no I had a point and when someone uses HALF A SENTENCE to say essentially "what are you talking about" that was ridiculous!
Later...please tell me my grade cause you grade everybodies posts...did I pass or fail? lol 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Hard to grade. I am still trying to figure out what your point is other than to insult anyone who doesn't agree w/you.
How do you come up w/Scheiner having control of football issues when it says he had control of business issues but not football matters?
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If you cannot figure it out...then why should I bother talking about it. Obviously its not good for your agenda...yeah its me...smh
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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j/c:
mac might be on to something here. Some are calling him dumb and others are scoffing at his opinions, but I'm not so sure the attackers are correct.
A couple of things popped into my mind when mac made his post and others replied to it:
--to believe that teams don't write their other business expenses off on their sport's franchises is incredibly naive. One of the baseball labor standoffs was settled when the courts ruled that the owners had to open up their books so they could be checked for the same practices. Writing off business losses on the sport's franchise was a common practice. Steinbrenner was highlighted
w/his shipping companies and the Yankees. The owners were guilty and a deal was quickly reached.
--Haslam's company paid over $150 million in fines. Ask yourself why? Were they not guilty of
the charges? If he cheats like that, why wouldn't he cheat again?
--Look at the proposed TC move to Columbus. Haslam worked w/politicians to have the tax
payers pay for the move so he could make more money. That money would be significantly less than what mac is proposing. A thief is a thief and a crook is a crook. They don't just pick and choose. They rip off people every time they can.
--Haslam's tenure reeks of marketing moves. Improvements to the stadium. New uniforms.
Letters to season ticket holders. Losing key free agents. Signing young, cheap alternatives. Moving TC to attract more fans. Etc, etc, etc.
--Firing people because of negative public and media perception. Talking about new plans and how the latest is a multi-year plan. Don't fret fans, this will take time and please keep spending your money while we go through the new plan. I promise to stick w/this plan. Keep feeding me.
Haslam might be a descendant of P.T. Barnum, the circus king, who once said that "there is an ass for every seat in the house."
Every time Haslam fires his management team, he begins a new 5 year plan with a focus on building via the draft while refusing to invest in our own free agents...in other words, management prefers the cheapest option...and it's not like our free agents were junk either...some were picked up by teams trying to win a super bowl!
WHY.....
GM strong...
Home of the Free, Because of the Brave...
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appear to be made with a focus on money 1st...
Bowe's contract was for $12.5 million with $9 million guaranteed.
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Where did I say that everything was motivated by money? I think my stance is far more open-minded than yours. I don't know if you specifically and intentionally were or weren't, but mac pretty much was and you took the stance of saying that he had a point. So, you kinda did by inference, or that is how I interpreted it.
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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...a focus on money 1st...WHY.....[/color] Perhaps, mac, it may be that we are sheparding our money so that in a few years when contracts are up for renewal, or we want to sign a prime FA or two, the funds will be available. It's called sustainability...
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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That makes sense. I wasn't necessarily agreeing w/mac......I just thought it was worth discussing.
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If you cannot figure it out...then why should I bother talking about it. Obviously its not good for your agenda...yeah its me...smh You can't explain it because it makes no sense. And my agenda is being objective. That upset you. I have praised Sashi and FO and have also questioned their moves. That's being objective and evaluating each move based on it's own merit. On the other hand, you agenda is to defend and praise Sashi and the FO for each and every move. You insult posters who don't agree w/you and you make up stories to place blame on people who are no longer w/the organization. Your agenda sucks.
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Mac,...I don't know why you chose to stress yourself over things not in your control.
Every team in the League is affected by FA.
I think that most here agree with the fact that we loss some good players, ... But really thats all they really where.
Alex Mac chose to leave by useing his option, so we really had no chance to retain him.
The rest can and will be replaced. In the bigger picture, this amounts to no more, than a mole hill.
The future of this franchise does not hinge on our losses in FA this year.
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appear to be made with a focus on money 1st...
Bowe's contract was for $12.5 million with $9 million guaranteed.
Bowe has no place in the discussion I'm attempting to have and you know it!
Last edited by mac; 05/28/16 08:12 AM.
GM strong...
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Your agenda is being objective...
 Thanks I needed a good laugh.
Again you didn't understand what I stated simply cause if you did it would have been against your opinion.
As for the front office with Mac and what many of the discussions are about. Didn't the owners revealed all this in the past...can't remember the year but I believe they were showing losses cause of the revenue sharing agreements they had with the CBA and players. This was before HASLAM entered here.
I'm not sure Mac how this reflects on Haslam. Cause what business showing LOSSES as you claim he's doing...rises in worth from 1 Billion his purchase price to now a reported worth of 1.5 billion. A 50% increase. I don't see this conspiracy of CHANGING REGIMES so Haslam can claim losses and not invest in FA cause new regimes will want to invest in the draft more than FA.
So basically what you are saying MAC is you wish us to believe that Haslam is so EVIL that he would wish us to be LOSERS cause once we have a team ready to make the move to championships we are more apt to make those high investments into FA to get over the top. ???
I ain't buying that.
jmho
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Operating Income...where do the Browns stack up when compared to the rest of the NFL?...anyone know?
I take it that, "anyone" permits me to respond... The Browns are 25th in franchise valuation. link
The link shows the evaluation of the Browns franchise at #25 (out of 32), $1.5b...
Ranking the Browns operating income, compared to the rest of the NFL teams is found here:
link
The Browns operating income is $34.7m, which ranks the Browns at #29 in the NFL
#30. Vikings= $34.5m
#31. Rams..= $34m
#32. Falcons=$25.4m
From the link provided by guard...
Profile
Jimmy Haslam completed his purchase of the Browns in 2015. In 2012, Haslam bought 70% of the team from Randy Lerner with the deal stipulating the CEO of Pilot Flying J would purchase the remaining 30% within three years. The enterprise value paid by Haslam, discounting for the three-year term of the deal, was $987 million. The Browns are feeling the effects of seven consecutive losing seasons. They have the cheapest average ticket price in the NFL ($54) and in 2014 were 20th in the league in average attendance (67,425). Attendance fell 5.4% last season.
No one can deny that Haslam has managed to push the Browns 5 yr rebuilding program back 4 yrs, starting another 5 yr rebuilding plan again this year. Was that his original plan?...I doubt it.
When Haslam bought the Browns in 2012, I doubt that he knew the FBI and IRS would come calling on Flying J in 2013. Haslam has spent far more on settling lawsuits than re-signing free agents and I'm not convinced that Haslam's money issues at Flying J have not had an effect on the operation of the Browns.
The Browns appear to be operating as cheaply as they possibly can, IMO. Allowing free agents to leave rather than signing them to second contracts...that has been going since the Flying J raids.I think it is safe to say the Browns will once again be one of the franchises with the most cap space available in 2016...and that trend has been going on for the last 2 yrs or so.
It's damn hard to build a winning franchise when the owner is not willing to invest in the good players drafted by the his own franchise. Just look up the spending of the most successful franchises in the NFL...look at the Steelers, the franchise Haslam claims to be using as a model
to build theBrowns after....Haslam isn't even close to the Steelers Way of operation.
Why?
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...I'm not convinced that Haslam's money issues at Flying J have not had an effect on the operation of the Browns.
What are you inferring here, Mac? That the Browns and Pilot are financially tied together?
When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the losers...Socrates
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[-
.Haslam isn't even close to the Steelers Way of operation.
Why?
[/color]
The ~ FIRST THIRTY years the Steelers never saw a playoff game it wasn't until steroids and Chuck Knoll that they started to win. And if you are referring to today's Steelers it's that 80+ years in the making it didn't happen in 4 or 5 years.
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Whose ego? Schwartz for thinking he was worth $8-10 million, or the FO's refusal to take back a good player who tested the market as found it a bit less inviting?
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The Browns made up their decision about Mack almost a year ago. When they drafted Erving. You don't draft the top ranked C in the draft if you plan on seriously negotiating to re-sign your starting C.
That was almost a year before the FA market opened this year.
Intoducing for The Cleveland Browns, Quarterback Deshawn "The Predator" Watson. He will also be the one to choose your next head coach.
#gmstrong
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appear to be made with a focus on money 1st...
Bowe's contract was for $12.5 million with $9 million guaranteed.
Bowe has no place in the discussion I'm attempting to have and you know it!
Sure it does. You are wondering if Haslam is shifting money from one corporation to another to cover costs in the other. The example of Bowe is that we didn't seem too concerned with money when we signed him.
If everybody had like minds, we would never learn. GM Strong ![[Linked Image]](http://www.dawgtalkers.net/uploads/small-gator-chomp.gif)
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The Browns made up their decision about Mack almost a year ago. When they drafted Erving. You don't draft the top ranked C in the draft if you plan on seriously negotiating to re-sign your starting C.
That was almost a year before the FA market opened this year. That's one way of looking at it. Another (the one they talked about at the time of the draft) is that Mack not resigning was very real possibility and drafting a top ranked OL who had a history at both C and T was a wise INSURANCE policy. edited to add...maybe wise shouldn't be in there, unless, of course, Irving develops into a better than average C. Too early to tell.
Last edited by W84NxtYrAgain; 05/28/16 04:50 PM.
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The Browns made up their decision about Mack almost a year ago. When they drafted Erving. You don't draft the top ranked C in the draft if you plan on seriously negotiating to re-sign your starting C.
That was almost a year before the FA market opened this year. That's one way of looking at it. Another (the one they talked about at the time of the draft) is that Mack not resigning was very real possibility and drafting a top ranked OL who had a history at both C and T was a wise INSURANCE policy. I think you are right about that.. Otherwise, why make Mack that good of an offer.. If they'd have made up their minds, why bother making an offer.
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appear to be made with a focus on money 1st...
Bowe's contract was for $12.5 million with $9 million guaranteed.
Bowe has no place in the discussion I'm attempting to have and you know it!
Sure it does. You are wondering if Haslam is shifting money from one corporation to another to cover costs in the other. The example of Bowe is that we didn't seem too concerned with money when we signed him. Why did the Browns offer Mack and Schwartz both more money than the teams they signed with  , offering more money doesn't look like the FO you are trying to paint them to be.  The " appear to be made with a focus on money 1st..." doesn't seem to hold water.
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offering more money doesn't look like the FO you are trying to paint them to be I know that wasn't directed to me, though it could read that way.
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