DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Coaching style and success

Just a quick question and attempt to gain insight from some of you who are/have been coaches or others who have input.

Is there a particular coaching style or philosophy that has proven more successful or is the measure of success more about the skill players? My guess is a team needs both.

My son's varsity and JV volleyball coaches (he plays both) are extremely reserved, flat lined and unemotional. The varsity coach does, however, have a kind heart and is a good man.

We give up many points with service errors each game.

They went 0/12 this season. According to many in the community and my Dad, the team is loaded with talent but there appears to be no spirit or enthusiasm. The varsity and JV have little comraderie and support one another very little.

JV went 2/12.

Even the banquet was low key, boring and monotone.

A few parents have spoken to the athletic director regarding the lack of a championship since 2004, lack of spirit and lack of enthusiasm. Since 2008, when the current coach took over, they have not had a winning season.

My son is in 9th grade. He is very capable as an outide hitter. There is time for him if change occurs now.

Some of the players who play JO volleyball are hoping for scholarships but it is difficult to get noticed when your team wins no games.

A local competitor is now vying for the state championship and, holy cow, what a difference! We go to their games and it is actually fun and exciting! Wish them well!

My Dad, who is now 82, was a consummate athlete. He played football at Penn State and in his younger days, played raquetball, volleyball and softball. He thinks we need a change of scenery.

Parents of team members are divided over this. My attitude has been that it depends on the reason your child plays the game. If you want to win and get noticed for a possible scholarship, then a change is at hand. If you want to develop team attitude and socialize, it doesn't matter and status quo is acceptable.

I told them I was going to bring it to the "DT experts" to gather ideas and thoughts.

What say y'all my dawg friends?

If you want your son to be in a more competitive system where he will get more exposure as an athlete, then you have already answered your question.

If you're only a team in name only, then you need a new coach. This is the tell tale sign of a coach not working.

Thanks CHS and OldCold. I do know the answers but sometimes it is hard to face.

After watching the movie Facing the Giants, I was hoping for a major overhaul in attitude with some minor changes.

Appreciate the input!

Truthfully, I've pondered this question all day. I'm not a coach. But, having played sports througout h.s., and now watching my daughter in volleyball and softball, all I can say is every coach is different.

Some are reserved, some are "in your face" (golfed with my h.s. football coach just today. In football, he was so "in your face", people that lived near the practice field complained)

I don't have an answer. But, if the team is "loaded", I would have to ask "why didn't they win any?"

I don't think there is a set answer for how a coach should be. My daughter has played for an all out coach, she's played for a very passive coach.

She's played for coaches she hates, and coaches she loves. One thing each team and coach has in common is, they know the game, and they coach the game.

That doesn't help you much, though, I know.

Hey Crjae, I don't know if this will help, but I'll give it a shot.

I played football, basketball, and baseball in high school. Played football in college. I have coached the same three sports in high school and worked for a collegiate football scouting service.

I have come across all the different styles of coaches. I do not believe that there is one style that is superior to the others. I do think that you have to be true to your personality.

Personally, I preferred the more aggressive, upbeat, demonstrative coaches when I was playing. That could just be because they were better coaches than the laid-back guys........I don't know.

On the other hand, guys like Tom Landry were very successful head coaches. They always remained poised and composed. You just gotta be who you are.

Myself, as a coach, was very passionate. Very demonstrative. My players, and most of their parents, always said loved how I could motivate. I'd yell..........but, mostly it was positive yelling, such as: "I know you are better than that. I believe in you. I know you can do this. Get it done." Those kind of things.

Being competitive is almost a dirty word in today's society, but I think that competing is a good thing. Push others to be their best. Push yourself to be your best. Have others push you to be your best. Nothing wrong w/being your best.

I am going to caution you on something, friend. Don't be part of the group that runs your currant coaching staff off. Like I said earlier, coaches should coach to their personalities. The main thing is this:

The kids have to know you are sincere. The kids have to believe in you. The kids have to know that you care more about their success than your own. The kids have to believe that can make them better.

And the above can be achieved by various coaching styles. Ask yourself this............do your son's coaches fit the above criteria? If so, don't run them off due to the team's record. Parents, especially a community of parents, often exaggerate the talent of the kid's teams and place undo blame on the coaches of said teams. I don't think many of them do it maliciously, but it's just the nature of the beast.

Don't run a good man off just because the team is not winning.

I want to ask you this..........my daughter was a superior softball player. Starring for her HS was one thing, but she got her scholarship offers due to her play on her travel team. They played all over the place..........Ohio, PA, NY, NC, SC, VA, MI, Fl, etc. More college scouts available. Both my son and daughter played on AAU basketball teams.......again........lot's of collegiate scouts. Do they have something like that for volleyball? If so, I would suggest you get your son on one of those teams, provided he is capable. It's really competitive.

Arch, thank you for the valuable input. I agree and happen to think that different coaching styles may match with different personalities on the team from year to year. Can you tell me what made your daughter "love" or "hate", to use your words, a particular coach?

Vers, great insight! I am not part of the group to run off the coach but I am encouraging some assistance and new younger blood for motivation. There is a traveling league for players. My son is not yet involved in it, however. Great suggestion.

BTW, I would strongly suggest to anyone who wants to get involved in coaching to read this: http://www.amazon.com/Wooden-Lifetime-Observations-Reflections-Court/dp/0809230410?ie=UTF8&*Version*=1&*entries*=0 John Wooden's book is amazing. I haven't had a chance to read his first one, but the other one is life changing.

I can TRY. Get this, my daughter is a girl. In MY experience, girls are very different than boys in how they take coaching.

For me, an all out, intense, yelling coach was no big deal. (as long as what the coach was screaming made sense. Example: Last game of our football season. We're up 20 some points. We make the playoffs IF we win, and 2 other schools lose.

Certain play, midway through the 4th quarter. As a tight end at the time, my job was to seal the outside backer/defensive end. The dude totally lined up a good 3 yards outside of me. I didn't seal him inside. We gained about 2 yards.

Coach went ballistic. I knew I didn't do the job I had to do, and walking back to the huddle, I hear (as did most of the town) coach screaming at me, and about my failure. He's a "no excuses" guy.

There was no need to signal in a play, or to send a runner in with a play - He bellered "Arch, you have to get that guy!!! Run the same damn play!!!"

An official even commented to me on the way to the huddle, "looks like your running the same play."

The d dude lined up even further outside of me. He knew what was coming. Know what? I got him. I pinned him in.

Since the whole d knew what was coming anyway, we lost a yard on the play anyway. But, coach was happy.

The guy was rough and tough, loud, brash. Punching you in the shoulder pads if you messed up, OR if you did good. Parents bitched about the punching. Not one single player ever did. Not when they played for him, and not after they played for him. Know why? It didn't hurt me, or other players. Not one bit.

Golfed with him yesterday. Honestly, aside from my dad and my 2 grandfathers, I respect that guy more than anyone else. He was fair.

Now, my daughter wouldn't be able to handle that - at all.

She quit playing basketball due to a coach. (and I need to make it clear, my daughter was not a top notch basketball player. Good on d, good with getting rebounds, but, just not a good offensive player). That coach? All State football player for the same coach I played for. Scholarship to Army for football, 2 year starter there. A very intense person.

Just didn't work for my daughter, which is fine.

Coaches she's liked? Most volleyball and softball coaches. They coached to win, and they didn't have to yell. Much. At times, that meant my daughter didn't play much (thinking the few times she played j.v. volleyball as opposed to being on the freshman team).

But she respected and liked the coaches that flat out said "we're here to win.", and proceeded to coach that way. Coaches that put the best players on the floor/field, and, if we got up enough, then would sub others in.

Volleyball coach she didn't care for? The one that was all about equal playing time, and wins don't matter. (and if anyone wants more info on that, I'll be glad to provide it. But, in short, I know exactly why the coach did that. And I also know the coach from the previous year wanted everyone to play, but she preferred to have a V prior to putting the so called "scrubs" in.)

Coaches have different mentalities and methods. Kids take to some, and don't take to others. Girls tend to shy away from overly vocal/aggressive coaches - but the kids also know what sports are about.

So, now that I didn't help anything, people can feel free to attack.

If a coach is just coaching in order to get an enhanced pay check, I'd get rid of them.

But, I have to say, our baseball team this year: Made it to regional finals. A few parents were griping all year about him - the coach. "he doesn't know....." "he doesn't do....." "he doesn't have the kids respect..." (I even told one parent, maybe he doesn't have your kids respect because your kid is learning at home, from you, that the coach is dumb. ya think?"

The team made it to regional finals and lost the game not due to coaching, but due to errors and the pitcher in that game having a totally off day.

I'd love to coach. And, I'd hate to coach. ( I have seen some coaches play the favortism thing as well). I'd love to be an umpire, or referee, and yet I'd hate it as well.

My hockey coach in high school was pretty old school.

I played for Euclid, and we weren't exactly a hockey rich community or school (you have to live in Euclid to go to school at Euclid)

We were conditioned to no end. Not so much with weight room stuff, because we really didn't have access. It was more about skating. We got about an hour and a half on average of practice time per day, it varied depending on the day of the week. We spent the first 20-30 minutes of each practice skating. He would always end the practices with 10 minutes of skating. All we really practiced was skating and breakouts. We did light shooting, and penalty kills, but we were conditioned to be able to outskate our opponents in the third period despite the talent level. The Plain Dealer did an article about us back in 2000 because a writer happened to see a practice of ours after seeing other teams in the higher division practice, and was blown away by how hard we worked. I believe he actually compared it to a concentration camp.

He was not a motivational guy at all. His pregame stuff consisted of bringing in a file folder and telling us which guys were fast, which guys were strong, and how good the goalie was. He allowed the seniors and captains to motivate and inspire each other. There was no rah-rah stuff from him or his , and he left it up to the leaders to take care of the rest. I'm not sure if it's still a rule or not, but with public schools, you can't have coach lead prayer or anything like that, so we huddled around the goal as a team and said a hail mary and an our father.

High school hockey in Ohio is one single division for a state title (there are/were two divisions for the city title/Baron Cup). So our chances were never really that great to make a frozen four or anything like that, but we won a lot of games on conditioning alone, against teams that were probably better than us top to bottom.

There's not one exclusive way to coach in sports. It really depends on the players, the situations, and even the coach themselves.

I had plenty of horrible baseball coaches growing up who were bad because they were trying to be something they weren't. My hockey coach in high school was very successful becuase he wasn't trying to fool anyone. He was a guy that had been around the block a million times and knew what was best for everyone. A lot of coaches are in it for themselves, and in some situations, rightfully so, but his last year was also my senior year, so he had no other motivations other than preparing us every single day.

Nice post Spergon! Thank you for sharing. If you have no motivational leaders on the team who step up, is it not the coach's job to do so?

I see your point but when no player assumes the responsibility, I have to believe there should be some inspiration from even the most flat line of coach.

Yeah, I mean sure. If the coach is genuine? Absolutely. Kids will smell a phony from a mile away.

Maybe the coach can identify a captain, and have a heart to heart with him about being more vocal? I'm not really sure how that all works with volleyball. I've seen enough girl's volleyball growing up with cousins and girlfriends who played to know that there is a ton of unity and leadership with those teams. It's actually pretty impressive to see. There's no finger pointing, and the group really supports every kid on the team.

It's really hard to force leadership in situations like that. Especially with kids. The fact that they don't have a lot of success doesn't help. Winning breeds stuff like that.

The most important thing is what your kid wants. If he wants to stick it out with that team, he should. If he feels like he can help the team in a different role, he should talk to his coach. There's nothing wrong with a kid sitting with his coach 1 on 1 and asking about helping the team be better.

I hope their situation improves though. Please keep us updated on how things go!

I've been involved with HS athletics for basically my entire life ... father was a coach, family friends were coaches, my friends are coaches, I am one as well .. etc, etc

I sympathize with your situation because there are so many variables that go into HS athletics, success, and what to believe

I'd make a checklist in your own mind:

Does the coach put the time into the program, care about the girls, display himself as a role model, know the game, prepare for the games, etc.

Not every coach is going to have an A+ in every category obviously, but I think it's important to care about the players (whether vocally or not), put the time in, and prepare the team to succeed ... I think that's all you can ask at the HS level

As you alluded to, it's dangerous to get involved as a parent to "get a coach out" because it's not a good look and it sets a bad precedent.

Maybe the best way to approach the situation is for your daughter/her friends (maybe the team captains or more vocal players) have a heart to heart with the coach?

Sorry I kind of rambled, but maybe listening to the coach's thoughts would help you understand where he's coming from as well?

Thanks Dawgs4. I do believe the coach cares about the guys. Your suggestion of a heart to heart is a good one. My son is a freshman. Maybe a sophomore status next year will offer the confidence to sit one on one and discuss the situation.

Our friend's son just set the collegiate record for kills at Penn State Behrend. We are trying to talk him in to working with the guys over summer. We offered our back yard and fire pit for some summer fun and practice to build team morale, spirit and a chance to work on skill development.

You have all been so insightful with your commentary and experience!

Is he from Cochranton? (I'm from Edinboro) ... I just remember reading about it in the Erie Times a little while ago.

Good idea to get some other expertise involved!

Dawg4, yes, he is. His parents are my son's Godparents.

We are trying to talk him in to getting involved with the kids but he just graduated from Penn State Behrend and has a new job in Erie. And I do know that superior skills don't qualify for or guarantee a superior coach but we would be interested to give it a try!