DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum RGIII Cont'd

Thanks Purp.

Robert Griffin III looked shaky in Browns’ practices

Posted by Michael David Smith on June 17, 2016, 5:29 AM EDT
link

Robert Griffin III may still be the favorite to win the Browns’ quarterback competition, but he hasn’t earned the job yet. And in the Browns’ offseason program, he didn’t inspire a lot of confidence that he’s going to be a great player in coach Hue Jackson’s offense.

According to Pat McManamon of ESPN, in the six practices open to the media, Griffin had as many bad throws as good ones, passes that were tipped, intercepted or should have been intercepted.

Griffin also showed poor footwork and seemed eager to throw safe, checkdown passes, and he didn’t make a lot of big plays or do the things that would show off the great athleticism he displayed as a rookie.

This is, of course, just practice, and for Griffin it’s practice in a new offense. On the other hand, in practice the quarterback doesn’t get hit, and Griffin’s biggest problem has been an inability to recognize and react to the pass rush. If Griffin is struggling even when he’s wearing a red jersey and playing against defenders who can’t hit him, things could get worse when the regular season starts.

Or, in the worst case for Griffin, he could be on the bench when the regular season starts.

I know that's the way it works, but I always laugh when one reporter uses the words of another reporter to write a story. Apparently Smith can't find a real source from the team or he didn't even see things for himself.

I guess if I'm going to listen to someone, it's probably Kosar. Not that his praise was without holes, but at least it's his own opinion..LOL

Daman/EO...click the link I posted with the story and you can clearly see the article was on the PFT website. PFT is the website started by Mike Florio.

Repackaging stories is what PFT does and it does not make them a bad source of information.

Below is the Pat McManamon story...now we can complain about that source, ESPN...or we can accept the possibility that Rg3 is having a tougher time adjusting to Hue's offense than we want to believe.


Robert Griffin III's offseason work lacked that 'wow' moment


Jun 15, 2016

Pat McManamon
ESPN Staff Writer
The focus on Robert Griffin III come training camp will be intense.
The Cleveland Browns have been through quarterback scrutiny the past couple years with Johnny Manziel, but Manziel drew attention mainly for the things he did off the field. Griffin will be under the microscope for his on-field actions.

The story of a former second-overall pick and rookie rockstar trying to piece together his shattered career will be one of the better ones in the NFL. Already, one national NFL writer -- Don Banks of SI.com -- has named Griffin among the top stories to watch in training camp.

The Browns were the only team in the league that reached out to Griffin to be a starter this season. They were the only team in the league to offer him with the kind of money he wound up taking. Griffin didn't so much choose the Browns as they chose him.

Hue Jackson clearly believes he can weave some magic with Griffin. The Browns coach does not lack for confidence, and Griffin seems to be trying whatever Jackson wants.

Tell him to slide? He slides, then pops up and yells loud enough for the neighbors to hear: "Who says he can't slide?"

Tell him to throw the ball away? He throws it over a 15-foot fence that surrounds the practice field.

Tell him to stand in the pocket? He says he'll play any style Jackson wants: read-option, true-option or in the pocket.

Griffin has seemed to embrace the opportunity Jackson has given him -- on and off the field. He sprinted from drill to drill. He clapped loudly before calling his first play in the huddle. He took part in numerous community activities. He took a low-key approach in interviews (though he did refer to a "mic drop" statement -- no pressure, no diamonds).

All of which is progress.

On the field, though, is where Griffin has to prove critics and doubters wrong. Griffin did not play a down for Jay Gruden in Washington last season. Mike Shanahan, the coach who guided him to his rookie of the year award and playoff season, said after Griffin signed with Cleveland that the only way he could succeed was to go back to the read-option style he ran his first season in Washington.

The challenge for Griffin remains the same as it was when he watched last season: At times in every game, a quarterback has to stand in the pocket, read the defense and make a throw. He has to be fundamentally sound. He has to use technique. He has to master the craft of playing the position.

It would be nice to say that he showed that he was doing just that in organized team activities and minicamp. But in the practices open to the media, for every good throw Griffin executed, he had a bad one.

There was a deep throw for a touchdown that ended minicamp, but before that three short passes were tipped, one was intercepted, two others could have been.

In individual drills, Griffin showed off the magic arm that can be so impressive. But in team drills, he threw a lot of short routes, at times displayed poor footwork and often took the checkdown.

OTAs lacked a "wow" moment for Griffin, a stand-up-and-take-notice moment. That lack could be caused by many factors, including what the coach requires on a particular day, but it seems like at some point a throw or a read or a pass would attract attention.

It didn't happen.

Now, there were only six practices open to the media, so that moment could have happened in a closed practice. But it still seems like there should have been at least one in those six open practices.

Griffin is working with as young and inexperienced a group of receivers as the Browns have had in recent memory. Six receivers are rookies or in their first year, one is trying to move from quarterback to receiver (Terrelle Pryor) and the most experienced is a special-teams standout (Marlon Moore). ESPN's Bill Barnwell ranked the Browns’ top three skill players as the league's worst group, and Pro Football Focus ranked the Browns' roster 31st in the league. All that youth must grow with a new quarterback.

Jackson said his offseason approach entailed throwing everything he could at the players to see what they could handle. Once he had learned what they do best, he would pare the plays back to those they would do well with and concentrate on just those in training camp.

In theory, a more focused approach should help the quarterback and the offense.

Griffin can grow into a successful starter. But he showed in the offseason that there is work ahead, and that work will intensify as the season approaches.

Hue Jackson’s QB reclamation project continues.
link

See how history repeats itself with the Browns no matter the regime?
Charlie Frye was a projected 6th to 7th draft pick.
But the Brown takes him too high
The only team to show intrest that high and yet make
Him a starter
Jake Delhomme....only the Browns offered him starters money
And a starting job
Robert Griffith...31 other teams deemed him unworthy even of
A looksie even as a BACKUP...
Yet the Browns are smartest front office in the NFL and sign him
RG3 doesn't have the mental makeup to turn the fortunes of franchise
That has defined failure and a culture of losing.
Too much for him to take on.
But Hue was desperate to find a QB to fit his system.
He's taking a huge gamble on RG3.
IF RG3 CAN'T GET IT DONE....THEN WHO DOES HE TURN THE REIGNS
OVER TOO?

RG3 has been with this set of receivers and in this offense for a few weeks. Did you really expect him to have great chemistry and look amazing at this point?

Let's wait at least till preseason game 3 before we start freaking out.

Have you ever tried to learn a foreign language? I could pick up vocabulary pretty easily. Learning conjugation and sentence construction wasn't too bad either. Trying to hold a conversation in that other language, that was tough. Trying to hold a conversation with someone else who is also learning the language only increases the difficulty. Now imagine trying to hold a conversation with 11 other people all learning the language at once.

I imagine installing a new system is something like that for a QB. If the job were quick and easy, anyone could do it, and we would have found our guy long since. Give the guy a chance at least. Unrealistic expectations only lead to disappointment.

It is interesting to me how much of Griffin's narrative is basically copied verbatim from Mike Shanahan.
This article, like many doesn't acknowledge that (a) Griffin was coming off a torn ACL (b) this injury was worsened by the coaching staff playing him (and calling read-option) with full knowledge of his injury (c) Mike says Griffin 'demanded' read-option be removed/Griffin says no 'demands' were made and the fact of the matter is that Mike Shanahan called read-option in 2013 and Griffin executed those plays. (d) Lost in all Mike's bitter fired coach blame game rhetoric is that THERE SHOULD BE NOTHING WRONG WITH A QB SEEKING TO BE DEVELOPED IN THE DROPBACK PASSING GAME

I always feel compelled to address the narrative surrounding Griffin with Mike Shanahan because too much of it is inaccurate.

Franchise player is injured. Coach knows franchise player is injured yet calls plays that put him in harms way. Franchise player sustains further injury. Franchise player loses trust in coach. Franchise player coming off a knee injury seeks to be developed more as a passer. Coach apparently has an issue with this 'demand'. Franchise player continues to execute read-option, which despite popular suggestion remained a part of the offense. Coach sits player last 3 games of season. Team has horrific QB play loses remaining 3 games. Coach is fired for a litany of reasons league worst defense, historically bad special steams, terrible W/L record during his tenure, injuring franchise player etc.

Coach is bitter and has been spewing against Griffin and Snyder ever since and has successful crafted a narrative of blameshift through the media. But coach will never get a Head Coaching job again. But I digress...

This is fuzzy logic to me. Griffin is not the first spread QB to enter the league. The idea that Griffin being from Baylor's offense prevents him from being developed as a drop back passer is as absurd as saying that Cam Newton couldn't be developed as a dropback passer because of Auburn's offense. Its dumb.
And, again the notion being pushed here is that in 2013 Griffin played poorly in and offense that didn't suit him. Neither of those notion is correct. In 2013 Griffin did not have a bad season and the offense which featured read-option was the best unit on the team.

Straight from the book of Mike Shanahan. And to be clear there is a lot Griffin handled poorly in Washington for various reasons. But the notion that Griffin stands alone as blameworthy for his relationship with Mike Shanahan is as silly as the notion that his production/performance was in any sabotaged or poor. Griffin's rookie + his 'self sabotaged year' stats:
~63comp%--6,4003 yds--7.58 ypa--36 TDs--17 INTs--1304 rush yds--7 rush TDs--

Agreed.


Destined to fail? Only with a HC that was "unwilling or incapable of tweaking his system". All any coach can do is teach what they know. The passing game that Jay knows is rhythm drop back west coast offense. And of the 2 QBs, Kirk had vastly more experience in that style of offense then Griffin. YET there wasn't a vast difference in their performance despite Kirk's head-start in the offense. The numbers are out there, for those interested Griffin vs Kirk in 2014 doesn't display the delta in their performance you would expect from Kirk's scheme experience. At the end of the day like Griffin, Kirk was benched for performance by Jay Gruden. In 2015 Jay chose to develop Kirk and stuck with him through a rocky start and Kirk improved over time and finished with a very strong season.


I agree with his idea above. Hue will bring plays and concepts that Griffin is comfortable with. The irony is that as much as Mike adapted the offense in 2012-2013 for Griffin those concepts weren't actually from Baylor's offense. Baylor was a spread-zone-read offense and the Redskins ran a Pistol read-option offense. But, Hue bringing in play concepts to suit Griffin will be very beneficial.

This to me, is the real difference maker. Griffin needs to time to continue his arrested development as NFL QB. And imho that development can only happen with an organizational imperative and focus on molding him into a franchise QB with patience and support.

Despite actually running read-option in 2013 (even with a knee brace on at the start of the season), despite Griffin denying that he made 'demands' to remove read-option, despite Griffin's comments in print about being willing to run...despite Mike Shanahan's previous mention that Griffin did run read option in 2013.....Mike Shanahan's current narrative about Griffin and read-option continues on unencumbered by truth.

But, yeah. I completely agree with his take on the offense. Run game focused, vertical passing with QB movement concepts and Hue's unique motions and shifts.


Agreed.

First one I found..

Frye may be the top senior QB in the draft. Which underclassmen declare could dictate exactly where he ends up in the draft. I feel comfortable calling him a 2nd round talent, but if Leinart and Rodgers go back to school, some team may pull the trigger in the late first on Frye"

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2005/prospects/charlie_frye.html




And had he not gotten hurt, I think he would of been fine. Josh McCown 2015ish. He went on to play well in relief duty for Houston after he left us..



Had we not been as interested, there is no doubt he would of eventually signed somewhere else as a backup. Brandon (fricken) Weeden is still in the NFL for christmas sakes..



No one said that.



You don't know that.



What does that even mean?



Hue is know to change his system to fit his QB. Small details I know..



What other options were there? That were also not a gamble?



Either Kessler, or whomever we draft next.

I assume we are sinking or swimming with Griffin in 2016. And based on the options, it's not a terrible idea..

No no, I never said it makes it a bad story. Don't put words in my mouth. I'm simply saying that reporters that repeat what other reporters say aren't original. Didn't say it was wrong. Just don't particularly like it.

AFC North Q&A: Did Browns make right move bringing in Robert Griffin III?

AFC North Q&A

Today's question: Was the Cleveland Browns' move to bring in Robert Griffin III a smart one that will yield positive results, or is it another case of the Browns casting wildly at any solution on two feet?

Jeremy Fowler, Pittsburgh Steelers reporter: This has the makings of another Browns blunder, though there are a few factors that make me understand the move on some levels. A successful RG III in Cleveland would be a terrific story. There’s still ability at his core. If Hue Jackson simply didn’t like Jared Goff and Carson Wentz enough, then good for him for sticking to his convictions. But here’s to guessing either Goff or Wentz or both will be an above-average NFL quarterback, so why not rebuild with one? On the surface, it looks like the Browns simply overanalyzed this. Trading with Tennessee for the No. 1 spot would have been feasible, and there were whispers the Browns really liked Goff. This offensive roster isn’t equipped to flourish with any quarterback not named Brady, Rodgers, Roethlisberger, Wilson, Palmer or a few others. Griffin III won’t have enough around him to showcase a rehabilitated skill set anyway. Seems doomed from the jump. Maybe the Browns knew that about their roster and acted on a stopgap as a result.

Coley Harvey, Cincinnati Bengals reporter: As the AFC North reporter who witnessed Hue Jackson’s offensive wizardry up close the past two seasons, I’m going with the first choice here. Signing RG III was a smart move that will yield positive results. With help from new Bengals offensive coordinator Ken Zampese (the Bengals’ previous quarterbacks coach), Jackson turned Andy Dalton into one of the league’s best quarterbacks last season. As Cincinnati’s offensive coordinator, Jackson led an offense that was among the best in the red zone (ranked fifth) and on the scoreboard (seventh). The Bengals also had the NFL’s fourth-best QBR. While we’re probably not going to see Griffin lead the Browns to an 8-0 start like Dalton did with the Bengals last season, don’t be surprised if the Griffin experiment works better than expected. He wasn’t just some warm body brought in to fill a spot on the depth chart. Remember, Griffin is only in his fifth season, and he’s in a system that should be better suited to his skills.

Jamison Hensley, Baltimore Ravens reporter: Does it really matter who is starting at quarterback for the Browns? This team is devoid of playmakers and suddenly has holes in a once solid offensive line. Every Sunday is going to be a struggle to get past midfield, much less in the end zone. There is no supporting cast for whomever the Browns put at quarterback. That’s why it is going to be impossible to truly evaluate Griffin. Hue Jackson has a history of instilling confidence in quarterbacks and getting the most out of them. But Griffin is in a no-win situation. Literally, there is a chance of no wins for Cleveland. There’s a lot to like about the Browns’ offseason, from cutting Johnny Manziel to stockpiling draft picks for the future. It’s all about building for 2018. When the Browns put themselves in a position to contend – yes, that could happen – Griffin won’t be under center. Cleveland’s franchise quarterback is someone who will be taken in the 2017 or 2018 draft.

Nope, not the only one. I don't care who wears the uni. The players are mercenary. They care about the paycheck, not the city or the fans. All I care about is how the team plays. Who does the playing is irrelevant.

This is a lie. You constantly harp on Vick, Roethlisberger, Manziel, Gordon, etc. for their off the field actions.

After the Cavs win, I really want to believe.

so says a 5-12 team smh

How do you reason the Browns will actually beat the 3 other AFC North teams this season?

I thought Tab answered that very well already with his "kicking their butts" comment. But hey I'll let Tab speak for himself.

The Ravens will be back. They had a fluke season last year (injuries, I believe).

Hensley is a hack, though.

Based upon what? As the Cavs have recently shown, past history doesn't mean much.

Name an above-average impact player on their roster that isn't either old and on the decline, coming off a major injury, or both.

They lost at least two guys on the O-Line like we did. Osemele and Monroe. Maybe a center, too as I'm only seeing 2 rookie C's on their roster though some G/OC's, too. They were desperate enough to sign Trent Richardson at RB.

Why bother to suit up in 2016 and play? I mean it is Hensley, for cripe's sake. Perfect crystal ball, expert of hyperbolic exaggeration, unencumbered by proof, and out in front with other haters. Critics are legless men who teach running. Case in point. Based on nothing, it counts for nothing. Crss reference Cavalier detractors and a winning Tribe.

Believeland. Make him eat crow . . . or some lesser rat-bird species.

So eloquently put

He is the Bard.

Yup.

Reckanize a True Playa when ya see him.

I mean this in a good way: I can read Bard's posts and know it's him before I look to see the username.

5 wins is something we struggle to achieve. No one will see us as a serious opponent until we prove we are. We have not been that since ... jeez I don't know. DA's one big year? And that was an anomaly.

I dismiss the idea we don't have any playmakers. That guy is full of crap.

I believe that both Crow and Duke are playmakers. Big play Gar is a playmaker. I am certain that Coleman is a playmaker.

I understand how some people are a show me first type. That's cool, but we are going to win some games this year....and by some, I am not talking about 3-4 games.

So I am not the only one that feels the need to use a half a roll of Charmin, and three charmin wipes after I read anything that butthole types.

Hensley is just a guy pandering to his audience. Nothing more, nothing less..

I don't think Hensley was very far off w/his evaluation of the Browns.

Oh I don't know, I think we've got some playmakers.. He makes it sound as if we are void of all talent. And we aren't. He makes it sound as if our Oline was perfect before and now it isn't. What it was is pretty good and at this moment is just unproven and unknown.

in other words, he's just making it up as he goes along.

You may want to re-read what he said. He talks about the Browns having a good off-season and building for the future. Haslam himself, has said this is going to be a multi-year rebuild.

I think that some people are making things up, but it wasn't the reporter.

Try again

j/c Daman



Duke, Crow and Barnidge are playmakers, with the potential to get better. Coleman, Pryor & Higgins are potential playmakers.



This is still a major question mark. There could be a major hole at center, or it could be a problem spot while he develops, or he may prove to be adequate by the end of camp. No way of knowing now. Also, they have yet to solidify the RT position. Will it be Pasztor, Drango, or Bowie? Or Greco if none of them step up? There may be a couple major holes, or they may figure it out, but it's a potential problem that has yet to be solved.



Pure speculation at this point. I have a feeling Hue will find ways to get us past midfield, getting into the end zone could be much tougher, but we won't know anything until we see what kind of playmakers we actually have, see how the system comes together, how quickly the players learn it, and see if the QB is any good at all.



This is a huge question mark. Assuming it's RGIII, we've had all kinds of conflicting reports. The good news, he seems to be saying and doing all the right things. He seems to be putting in the work. The bad news is, there are concerning reports of accuracy issues. If that is true, the team is screwed, especially if those accuracy issues stem from a lack of proper footwork and an inability to read the D quickly enough to anticipate where he's going with the ball.

It's easy for a writer to make snap assessments, but he also has about a 33% chance of being correct. He may be completely wrong, the offense may end up as merely mediocre, or it could end up being a complete cluster with sub-par talent and no QB. At this point in time, it's anybody's guess.

All I am saying is that no one is going to respect us based on how we look on paper or how much potential we have. We will not get respect until we earn it on the field.

Surpassing 5 wins once in the last 8 years won't do it. We need to win games, pure and simple. The respect will come.

Respect is earned, not given.

You can't overlook age at times especially "old teams"
I've seen teams go with a veteran roster and lose.
I've seen teams go with youth and lose.
I saw a Browns franchise under MANGINI sign aging vets
And embarrass themselves
I seen a young roster under Farmer and lose badly
You have to have a balance I think.
As far as the Steelers go they are a very very talented
Roster with the best QB in the game and a solid front office and they draft well.
Their oline is elite. They have studs in the front 7.
Oh yeah and the best WR in the NFL.
The Ravens had too many injuries to overcome in 2015.
They are a border line wild card team.
The Browns might be stronger faster but it matters little
If the QB can't put scoring drives together and the defense leaks like a rusty pipe.