DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum The 2016 Indians

Before I can decide between Pitcher A or B, I need to know B's ERA, IP, K, BB, and WHIP. When I'm shopping for a pitcher for my fantasy team, I am looking at 5 measures. In order of importance, those 5 are;

WHIP - How many base runners does he allow
K/9 - How dominant is he
BB/9 - How good is his control
ERA - How many base runners does he allow to score
G/F - Are balls hit in play more likely to be on the ground or in the air

These demonstrate his skill as a pitcher, his ability to control the other team's offense. A pitcher with great skills could still lose more games than he wins because his team can't catch or score runs. Likewise a pitcher could have a great W/L record despite having less skill because his team plays great defense and has a strong offense.

Wins are not an accurate reflection of a pitcher's skills because they are too reliant on things beyond his control.

I get that. Run support could consistently save an average pitcher.

I follow a Tribe blog, and they always bring up the HRs and BABIP on Tomlin. They scratch their head at how he's having a fantastic season despite those two stats.

Tomlin's key is how the walks don't happen when a player or two smashes a solo shot. I'm okay with that.

Hey, a rare non-Red Sox, non-Mets,non-Yankees Indians’ game on TV here in CT tonight. (Got that?)

Tonight on FS1 (Fox Sports) @ 10 pm EST: Indians @ LA Angels.

Cheese perogies……....✔
Kielbasa………………. ✔
Dijon mustard…….…...✔
Chips…………………..✔
Folgers Special Blend..✔

Unfortunately, I’m 3-5 for games I’ve seen on TV so far this year.

(My check marks turned into ✔)

But I'll bet my ✔ stays ✔

By the way,

In case you haven't noticed, The Indians have had 3 Cy Young winners in the last ten years:

2007 C.C. Sabathia
2008 Cliff Lee
2014 Corey Kluber

That's amazing.

All with great stats such as IgRF9. If you had them, maybe you won your fantasy League.

Cleveland World Series appearances in the last ten years: 0

No offense but I'll take reality.

You literally don't know what you're talking about.

Got back from my trip tonight, and I've had the game on. Holy cow, Naquin!

Unfortunately Shaw gave up the game in the bottom of the 9th. Man, a broken bat RBI base hit dooms the Tribe tonight.

quote above by cfrs:

"You literally don't know what you're talking about."

Fine, well, if Tomlin is in the All-Star game in a month, you can admit I'm a genius. (and we're both winners)

If he's not, I admit I "...don't know what I'm talking about."

Either way, argument settled (unless of course Tomlin has a complete collapse in the next month).

Let's keep our fingers crossed for a Tomlin ~ 10-2 at the break.

Because the All-Star game is a perfect way to show if a player is good or not. . .

Mike Trout broke Juan Uribe's nuts.

And my thought, as I watched, was "Why wasn't he wearing a cup?"

No one wears a cup in MLB besides the catcher and the home plate umpire.

Evaluating the Indians current (and longest of the season) 10-game road trip.

After seven games: 4-3 (great)

Up next, three games at the defending World Series champion Kansas City Royals.

If the Indians go:

0-3... well that’ll suck but the road-trip wasn’t devastating.
1-2....the road trip was OK
2-1....the road trip was great
3-0....Rapture. “And the Lord said: ‘Follow me and ye shall not be lost’”

Bryan Shaw needs to go, immediately.

Definitely a couple of tough losses for the Tribe.

Hopefully they get it turned back around tomorrow.

This isn't a short term issue either with Shaw:

Jim Berdysz
@BirdmanCLE

Bryan Shaw last 57 games

5.22 ERA
50 innings
11 HR
57 hits
29 ER

Tweet

Hopefully, Tito just sticking by his guy publicly. A change needs to be made.

Jordan Bastian Verified account
@MLBastian
Asked what his alternatives are for the eighth inning, Francona said: "I don't want an alternative." Said he won't "run away from" Shaw.

Tweet

Well, for you stat guys Tomlin had a terrific outing last night (except for no W).


................IP....H...R...ER...W.....SO....ERA....WHIP
Tomlin........7.....7...1....1....0......5.....1.28....1.00

I think the "analytics versus traditional stats (wins)" is a fun bar argument among friends. I could fight both sides. Ultimately, the truth is somewhere in the middle. If you look at one game, a win doesn't tell the whole story. However, over a year or career, the better starting pitchers get more wins than the stinky ones do. There is a connection.

As for the current series, I really thought we had last nights win. Crap.

quote above by Punch:

"... a fun bar argument among friends."

yep. Good read. I often don't really believe the drivel I spout in an "argument".

Not sure why. I think I'm making fun of stupidly stubborn people by acting like one.

Like that's a stretch for me.

The only stat that matters in wins. And wins only applies to the team. All other stats are subsidiary and used only as a means to obtains wins.

Okay bats, can you wake up?

Ouch...

They are bad to watch right now...the june swoon is here. With as close as the central is, if they don't get going they'll be in last place by next weekend. We have alot of guys that need to be replaced. Napoli, Gomes, Uribe,Giminez, Santana. They all strike out and waste too many at bats. Power is nice, if you can still hit for average. Napoli has 90 strikeouts...thats just nuts Thats 40% of the time..and he's very average a first. Kipnis is underachieving as well.. We got some great young talent like Naquin, Davis and lindor, I'd be looking around to see what else we have stached in the farm league. Starting pitching for the most part has been excellent as is the bullpen, seems we say the same thing every year, our offense sucks

You're about as bad with the Indians as you are with the Cavs.

Tonight's an outlier. The last two nights were close, only a run each, and happened due to poor defense. Poor defense started the rally tonight, too.

Chill.

Tough stretch has turned a promising roadtrip into a rough one .... but the Tribe is still in 1st place.

Yep, tough way to end the road trip. We gave game 2 of the series away. Another big series coming up against CWS. DET and KC will be playing each other in the weekend series. Gotta win the series at home.

Bats need to wake up, but KC is one of the best teams in the league when playing at home.

Boy, Kluber looked pretty beat. Normally he doesn't show much emotion, but his body language when Tito pulled him showed he was pretty bummed. Hopefully, he gets some things figured out and gets his mojo back. We need to have him as tough and consistent as he was last year.

I thought when we got those two runs back in the fifth he would come out and dominate. Instead, he got shelled.

dude it was not an outlier, our offense sucks right now..I call it like i see it. They've lost 4 of the last 5 and now are tied for first after entering the week with a 3.5 game lead. Theres 4 teams within 2 games of each other. Nowhere did i say they suck, I think Tito is the best manager we have in cleveland by far. Just saying we have the same issues every year..poor offense, we have some nice pieces, but we also have pieces that probably should be replaced..jesus christ cleveland fans are so sensitive..heaven forbid anyone be critical.
Guys like Santana/Napoli/Kipnis, who we depend on to provide offense, haven't done anything in awhile, the new guys like naquin, davis, lindor have all been excellent, and i think once we get brantley back things will go better. You know the saying, can't win it in June, but you can sure lose it. They need a strong homestand to get rolling again

they are the best team at home in all of baseball..gaudy .750 winning percentage

I've been to seven games so far this season, and in all I see a young team trying to win. Our best offensive weapon is hitting for average, and just letting the pieces fall.

They had a stellar homestead, and on the road they've lost the ground they gained; this is ho baseball works. Long gone are the 90s long ball madness, a phenomenal team loaded at every position, and an almost guaranteed win.

We'll live and die based on hitting for average, and hoping the rotation can remain stout. We won't be more than a 90 win team, but we need to learn to manage the wins and losses a bit better.



I try to take a reasonable approach to sports teams. I hate running around acting like the sk is falling for all of them.

Be critical, but the overreactions get tiring.



We rely on Santana to get walks. Napoli, for his entire career, has always been very boom or bust; he's the best option we can get with our payroll challenges.

Kipnis hits right around .285, and that's considered a good average in the non-juiced era.

I would also add that we have been missing our best offensive player (Bradley) for most of this season. (not to mention also having had Carrasco miss over a month with an injury)

The fact we're contending at this stage is a sheer miracle in and of itself.

Thats my point, Tito does such an amazing job getting these guys to somehow win. If you could actually give him 1 or 2 more consistent players this team would be hard to beat. To your point about santana, yeah he gets walks, but where he bats in the lineup, i'd like to see him actually be able to hit, and yea Napoli may have been the best of the worst, but we have a pretty impressive farm league, wouldn't hurt to bring a guy up for a week or two to give Napoli some rest. Kipnis strikes out too much for my taste, he's already stuck out almost 60 times already this year, and our catching situation is a mess, i don't like gomes or gimenez. But somehow tito gets them to win which is great, I love going to games. But man he could do so much more with just a few more pieces..FO needs to stop being cheap and invest in the team. They did a great job of unloading the bourne and swisher fiasco, Maybe they are gunshy about going after someone...I think if we do, it will be a SP for a bat, just depends how the next few weeks go.

Who exactly do you want to bring up from the farm system, that plays 1B just to rest Napoli? Not even sure who that player would be. Not to mention, wasting club options on whoever it is your thinking about. Additionally, that is not the best way to manage young talent.

That's an absurd idea.

Let's not forget, the Indians are paying Bro-Hio, Bourne and Chris Johnson $20M+ this year.

Indians are having a great year considering the hand their dealt.

Doesn't have to play 1b, you can bring a utility guy or santana can place first, I wish Bradley was progressing faster, i thought after his rookie year he was going to be fast tracked

Everyone else shores up as a defensive liability at first.

So who are you calling up? When you say Bradley do you mean Bradley Zimmer?

P.S. Go Cavs!!!!

Carlos SLAMTANA with a WALKOFF win! First WALKOFF home run win for me to witness!

(Sorry for the caps. My iPhone loved to autocorrect)

Santana on an 0-2 count!!!!!!!!

Another great outing by Bauer.

Go Tribe!