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With all the talk of Quinn, Thomas, Bentley, Wright and the overall progression of the offense, I think an important piece of our defense is being forgotten about.
Brodney Pool. His growth is essential to the growth of our defense, and if he takes the Sean Jones leap, it could give us a HUGE gains in our defensive backfield. We could easily have the best safety tandem in the AFC North, if not one of the best in the NFL.
So, all you people with "people who know people," how's he coming along?
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I wouldn't count out Hamilton.
He could win the starting job instead of Pool.
I'm always intrigued by guys that switch to a position after they are well into their college careers. They are wild cards.
He could turn out to be the player they thought Pool would become.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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.. " I wouldn't count out Hamilton. " .......................................................................... I think this is going to be a real battle to watch in training camp .. I look for Hamilton to be a gamer ! 
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If Pool makes the same leap as Jones did last year, then we will be set at safety. Jones surprised me.
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Justin Hamilton S Hamilton (6-2½, 218) ran his 40s in 4.54 and 4.52 seconds. He also ran the short shuttle in 4.04 and the three-cone drill in 6.66. In addition, he had a 42½-inch vertical jump, a 10-foot-6 broad jump and 19 lifts.
http://www.sportznutz.com/nfl/draft/2006/pro_day_results/virginia_tech.htm
Pool
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He's the top ranked safety on NFL.com
1. Brodney Pool, Oklahoma (6-1, 207)
Did not work out at the combine. He ran his 40s in 4.53 and 4.55. Had a 39-inch vertical jump, 10-foot-8 long jump, 4.30 short shuttle and 7.19 three-cone drill.
Justin has the measurebles to compete with Pool. He lacks experience. He played running back and reciever at Va Tech
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336 yards on 75 carries (4.5 avg.) and 3 TDs along with 34 receptions for 369 yards (10.8 avg.) and 1 TD in 39 games on offense.
http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/team/player.php?id=499
He is very athletic and did possess ability coming out of college as a safety
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Hamilton is the type of player that you need to take a shot on because of his combination of size, natural athleticism, smartness and competitiveness. He is a very well-built defensive back who comes up quickly in run support and has the playing strength to be a strong and physical tackler at the point of attack. He does not consistently use his hands well to take-on and shed blocks and is still improving at taking-on and shedding blockers quickly. He has the playing speed to chase down running plays in pursuit and can get out to the sideline to help in pass coverage when he reads the pass quickly. He is not a very productive safety in terms of tackles or big plays made after switching to defense from receiver, but he has the size, athleticism, work ethic and smartness to take a shot on him. Overall, he is a long-term developmental prospect who is unlikely to get on the field to play defense for a couple of seasons, but he has the talent to make plays on special teams while developing into a solid backup safety.
STRONG POINTS
Hamilton is a very good natural athlete which helped him to make the switch from receiver to safety so easily. He is a smooth and fluid athlete who changes directions very easily and can accelerate in the other direction fast. His good playing speed gives him sideline range vs. the run and pass. He comes up quickly in run support and is a willing tackler who does not back away from contact. He has good size for a safety and, with his aggressiveness and toughness, has shown the ability to be a good, strong and physical tackler out in space; especially in run support.
WEAKNESSES
Hamilton is very raw as a safety and is still learning the nuances of the postion. He does not always read and react to the play fast. He will get out of control at times which leads to him not making some tackles he should make. He does not consistently move through traffic quickly and does not protect himself from low/cut blocks.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2006/hamilton_justin
I know Justin has the drive and work ethic to succeed. If Pool falters, I believe Justin will step up and fill his position. I am certainly biased but I feel I am not being blinded by it.
#gmstrong
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Ya know what...
Here's what I think could reaaaaaaaaally benefit us. Imagine running the nickel or dime packages with Jones, Pool, AND Hamilton on the field. After watching Pool play corner from time to time last year, i think it would look absolutely lovely with Jones, Pool, and Hamilton on at the same time. With 3 safeties there, it could allow us to use more complex zone schemes against spread offenses and it could give us greater run support on draws in situations like that.
I'm excited about the prospects we have for the upcoming seasons. I think the talent we're acquiring will allow more complexities that Romeo made his name in NE with.
"It has to start somewhere
It has to start somehow
What better place than here?
What better time than now?"
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I can't wait to see IF Romeo can live up to his hype as a defensive whiz.
We will see...
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I think that is the most overrated concept out there. Just because a HC was a great OC or DC does not mean that will translate to his new team. It is up to their OC or DC to be great. You see examples of it around the league...Billick and Dungy to name two.
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Well, IF Pool and Hamilton come along, and then this McDonald kid and Eric Wright both blossom, combined with Jones and Bodden our secondary is going to be flat our sick and deep. '08 is looking better all the time
Browns is the Browns
... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.
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1st String
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He could turn out to be the player they thought Pool would become.
I think many people forget that Pool is still only 23 years old.
To put that in context, he's two years younger than Hamilton and Jones, and the same age as Quinn and Joe Thomas. He still has his whole career ahead of him.
**Insert clever signature here attributed to some historical figure that sounds interesting but has been taken completely out of context.
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Jones surprised me.
He didnt surprise me... 
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Really?
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Really?
yea.. cuz Georgia breeds DEFENSE!! u didnt know? 
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"He could win the starting job instead of Pool."
I think that is highly unlikely. Yes, Hamilton has the measureables but he still is very raw. I happen to think Hamilton was a great acquisition for a 7th round pick. Glad we were lucky in that area. But only if Pool fell flat on his face would Hamilton win the starting job.
RAC is pretty good with his defensive evaluations. He's made it clear he wants guys to know the system before going out there as a starter - unless there are no other options as in injuries. Just like they felt Jones was ready they seem to feel Pool is ready. They seem to know what they are talking about. They seem to have the film and the breakdowns. They seem to have him in the classrooms.
It really is possible that:
a. Phil Savage actually knows talent when he sees it.
b. RAC actually can evaluate young talent and know when they are READY.
Pool is a very talented individual who is not afraid to hit. He has the makings to be a great FS at worst an Avg. one. It is possible that we have one of the best tandem safeties in the NFL this is one of the exciting things to look for in this upcoming season.
Hamilton...still raw but up and coming depth. I'm sure actually his progress is what made us feel Russell was obsolete. But make no mistake about it. Pool has the makings of a Great Safety - this is year 3 and I'm looking forward to see his progressive strides.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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All Pro
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He's progressed enough to have already won the starting Saftey spot opposite Jones.
There's no chance, barring injury, that Hamilton starts over Pool.
[color:"white"]
Go Browns
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"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Quote:
I'm excited about the prospects we have for the upcoming seasons. I think the talent we're acquiring will allow more complexities that Romeo made his name in NE with.
After watching the latest RAC Int vid, I have to say I am somewhat disappointed. He talked about the offense having to learn a new system and that they're all working hard to do that, but then when he talked about the D he said the new guys are learning it, but it's not too complicated anyway. It didn't sound to me like they were planning on installing many new defensive schemes. He talked about how you give the players what they can handle and if they can't handle what you give them you start subtracting. Admittedly he was talking about the O at the time, but the message was the same. No new schemes until the guys show they can handle what they've been given. To me, that doesn't bode well for a more complex D this year. Now of course maybe I'm wrong, maybe they're secretly installing all sorts of blitz packages and designed schemes to confuse the offenses, but it sounded to me like he was just happy that the guys are satisfactorily executing the schemes they already know. I guess we will see. 
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/hfMNC7T.jpg) "I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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I'm sick of running the most vanilla 3-4 known in football history.
Blue ostriches on crack float on milkshakes between the sidewalk titans of gurglefitz. --YTown
#gmstrong
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My point exactly. The man made his reputation in New England through disguised defenses and mid-game adjustments. I want that here. Now. Right now.
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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I'll not get into who should start over who,but I do like the potential all three bring,each one something different.
Pool brings athleticism.SJ is a football magnet,the ball will find him.Hamilton is football savvy.All 3 on the field at the same time,in a bastardized version of the cover-2 or a 3 safety cover-3,would look pretty good.Good coaches find ways to get the best players on the field.
Indecision may,or maynot,be my problem
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Quote:
Quote:
Really?
yea.. cuz Georgia breeds DEFENSE!! u didnt know?
What is Georgia? Is that a song? 
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yea..
ITS GREAT... TO BEEEE... A GEORGIA BULLLDAWWWGGGGG
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I don't expect Hamilton to beat out Pool. I do expect him to continue to make strides and be ready to take over if Pool falters. Pool is still very young and talented. I have read on line things that were said back before the 2005 draft where he was talked about maybe sliding in the end of the first round.
Vers has been disapointed in him so far which makes me wonder some. Before someone says anything, I don't always see things the same as Vers. It is hard for me to see a lot of what happens in the secondary from watching the games. I rely on the opinion of other posters who I find to be knowledgeable.
However the seondary shakes out I hope it is enough to overcome our deficiencies in the pass rush.
#gmstrong
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Pool had his moments last year, but often looked out of position.
I think the light goes on for him this year and he has a solid year.
I think with Hamilton, we'd be having the same discussion - he's got all the physical tools, just needs to have that light go on.
Either way, the Safety position is about the least of our worries heading into TC, IMO.
[color:"white"]
Go Browns
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"I'm sick of running the most vanilla 3-4 known in football history"
Almost everyong in our system worth spit...is in their 1st or 2nd years as starters...Its rather simple...you got to walk before you run! The more they learn as a TEAM and get adept at it the more they can add...it does no good to teach something that is dependant on knowing and being good at the basics of the D.
RAC stated that this year with more of the starters proficient in the basics - they can throw more in. Blitz packages is one of the throw ins.
JMHO
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Quote:
RAC stated that this year with more of the starters proficient in the basics - they can throw more in. Blitz packages is one of the throw ins.
JMHO
I must've missed it when he talked about adding more this year, tab. When did he address that? (In his last presser he talked about how simple the D was.) 
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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I've personally been disappointed with Pool. The guy looks like a great FS with amazing range, but he looked lost at times last year. Oklahoma has normally had well coached DB's because they were taught to play disciplined, zone coverage oriented pass defense, so when Pool struggled last year, I was a bit surprised. Granted, he did have to play CB a few games, so I feel for him.
I know a lot of Browns fans didn't like Russell, but the guy was steady and rarely made mistakes.
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"I must've missed it when he talked about adding more this year, tab."
Almost positive it wasn't this last Presser 6/5...I think it might have been the Late May Presser when OTA's just started??? or possibly after the draft?
But he said it...I remember it was in response to a question so it was after his speech thing and in the Q & A's....
JMHRecollection
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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More Home Page fluff, but since there's been much interest in Brodney... Pool's time is now Steve King, Staff Writer 06.10.2007 It's two years later than most people thought it would happen, but Browns safety Brodney Pool might get his chance to be a full-time starter in 2007. Pool, now entering his third season, has been working with the No. 1 defense at free safety throughout the practices in the organized team activities, and should still be when the Browns open the regular season on Sept. 9 against the Pittsburgh Steelers. Pool actually started eight games -- or exactly half the season -- in 2006, but there needs to be an asterisk attached to that. The Browns were so depleted at cornerback because of injuries that they used the athletic, 6-foot-2, 208-pound Pool, who has good speed and coverage skills to go along with his size, as a hybrid cornerback in four games. Then when the injury bug spread to the other part of the defensive backfield and starting free safety Brian Russell was lost for the year with an infected elbow, Pool moved there and started for the final four games of the season. But Russell was allowed to go to the Seattle Seahawks in free agency in the offseason, thus clearing the way for Pool to move in as the permanent starter. It is where he was expected to be all along. The Browns were ecstatic at being able to get Pool with the second pick of the second round, at No. 34 overall, in the 2005 NFL Draft. Under new general manager Phil Savage and new head coach Romeo Crennel, the Browns were moving in a new direction, letting both of their starting safeties from the previous three years, Robert Griffith and Earl Little, depart after the 2004 campaign. The Browns then signed Russell, a restricted free agent from the Minnesota Vikings, and the thought was that he would be paired with Pool in the starting lineup. It seemed to be a good mix -- the veteran Russell, who is more than happy to share his knowledge with younger players, acting as a coach on the field in helping Pool It didn't work out that way, however. Russell did indeed start in 2005, but his partner was not Pool but rather Chris Crocker, a holdover from the previous year. Pool played in 13 games that year, appearing mostly in the dime package. When Crocker was traded to the Atlanta Falcons in the ensuing offseason, it was assumed that Pool, albeit a year late, would join Russell at safety in 2006. The rise of Sean Jones was legitimate. He took his good play right into the regular season, getting off to a fast start and ending up tied with Daven Holly for the team lead in interceptions with five. Jones is back for 2007 and could be paired with Pool. Finally, it's the latter's time. "It feels good to be in there," Pool said after practice the other day. "I've prayed about it and thought about it a lot." "What people don't realize is that I was just a young guy when I came here (he opted for the draft after his junior season at Oklahoma)," he said. "I had to be patient. I had a lot to learn. I knew my time would eventually come, and it has." He added, "My situation was a lot like that of a young quarterback coming into the league. If they rush you and put you out there before you're ready, you'll make a lot of mistakes and mess yourself up. You can ruin yourself. "But I didn't have to go through that. I was able to sit on the side and watch. I was able to develop slowly." Pool is hardly a finished product. He's still just 23 -- by only several weeks, in fact -- and is still getting his feet wet in the pros. He has plenty of room to grow. But now that growth will be on the field -- all the time. Being so much more mature and knowledgeable than he was in 2005 -- or even last year, for that matter -- he can handle it. Home Page
"I am undeterred and I am undaunted." --Kevin Stefanski "Big hairy American winning machines." --Baker Mayfield #gmstrong
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A year or two ago I think either Phil or Romeo said Brodney Poole was the best athlete on the team.
It's great he has been studying and learning; maybe he will end up being a good player. The potential certainly seems to be there.
It seems that Pool should be way ahead of Hamilton at this time. Of course, we all hope that players like Hamilton can contribute to the team.
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Quote:
I've personally been disappointed with Pool. The guy looks like a great FS with amazing range, but he looked lost at times last year. Oklahoma has normally had well coached DB's because they were taught to play disciplined, zone coverage oriented pass defense, so when Pool struggled last year, I was a bit surprised. Granted, he did have to play CB a few games, so I feel for him.
I know a lot of Browns fans didn't like Russell, but the guy was steady and rarely made mistakes.
Pool turned 23 years old 3 weeks ago. Think about that. Then think that in his first 2 years he played CB and FS, he hasn't been able to sit and learn at 1 position like Sean Jones. He's 5 months older than Brady Quinn and 7 months older than Joe Thomas. Pool is going into year #3. He'll be a great player. The kid is the same age as most rookies.
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Pool turned 23 years old 3 weeks ago. Think about that. Then think that in his first 2 years he played CB and FS, he hasn't been able to sit and learn at 1 position like Sean Jones. He's 5 months older than Brady Quinn and 7 months older than Joe Thomas. Pool is going into year #3. He'll be a great player. The kid is the same age as most rookies.
The age thing is something that I didn't really consider, and I hope that is the case for him not emerging thus far.
But please stop saying he is going to be a great player. You don't know that he will. You and eo and everybody else who seems to think that is basing it on what exactly?
Show me on the field. I hope he turns out to be great, and I think it does often get overlooked about his age. I know that I have overlooked that. But this guy is not a shoe-in to be great, and he has shown nothing that would indicate that.
LOL - The Rish will be upset with this news as well. KS just doesn't prioritize winning...
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Quote:
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Pool turned 23 years old 3 weeks ago. Think about that. Then think that in his first 2 years he played CB and FS, he hasn't been able to sit and learn at 1 position like Sean Jones. He's 5 months older than Brady Quinn and 7 months older than Joe Thomas. Pool is going into year #3. He'll be a great player. The kid is the same age as most rookies.
The age thing is something that I didn't really consider, and I hope that is the case for him not emerging thus far.
But please stop saying he is going to be a great player. You don't know that he will. You and eo and everybody else who seems to think that is basing it on what exactly?
Show me on the field. I hope he turns out to be great, and I think it does often get overlooked about his age. I know that I have overlooked that. But this guy is not a shoe-in to be great, and he has shown nothing that would indicate that.
As a rookie, every week in dime coverage he progressed a lot faster than anyone else on the D. He made great strides. He's a solid tackler, solid speed and a knack for being around the ball. His athleticism allowed him to play CB and FS. Was he the best CB? Nope, but darn good for playing out of his natural position in a new D his 2nd year out of college. When he got to play FS, a couple times they put him close in the box and he always made solid tackles. I base it off everything I've seen on the field. I don't understand why people love to dis him. He's been in the NFL for 2 years, spent his second year playing quite often out of position to help the team.
The thing that scares me this year about the O-line is that very thing at RG - Mckinney has never played it. Much like Andruzzi is a RG by trade and was forced to play LG. Tucker was a RG and moved to RT. We play too many guys out of position, I'd have beaten someone had we moved Steinbach to LT.
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e's a solid tackler, solid speed and a knack for being around the ball.
Around the ball? 
I am not saying he won't improve, but thus far, he is Mr. Lost in Space. I've never seen a DB stand around as much as he does. He's been awful. I think he might be another of those guys who looks great in shorts but can't translate it to the field. I hope I'm wrong and I could be, but thus far........he's been putrid.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Quote:
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e's a solid tackler, solid speed and a knack for being around the ball.
Around the ball?
I am not saying he won't improve, but thus far, he is Mr. Lost in Space. I've never seen a DB stand around as much as he does. He's been awful. I think he might be another of those guys who looks great in shorts but can't translate it to the field. I hope I'm wrong and I could be, but thus far........he's been putrid.
That's your perogative, but the main reason Ralph Brown got torched in pre-season and on many regular season ones was because Russell was out of position, not Pool. Ask the people you know. I was fortunate enough after the pre-season games to speak with someone and I thought Russell was out of position, his response was "yes, he was way out of position which is why Brown looked like he was chasing the play."
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Legend
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"Pool is a very talented individual who is not afraid to hit. He has the makings to be a great FS at worst an Avg. one."
Thats the only post where I mentioned the word "GREAT" but you must read every word not just one and then Claim - "You and eo and everybody else who seems to think that is basing it on what exactly?"
Don't mis-represent my position - yeah I'm a positive guy but you guys who wish to discredit me by making up stuff on my opinions and brushing it under the table with no validity make me a little testy.
He has the makings to be a great FS...if you cannot see the difference from that and a poster Saying he IS A GREAT SAFETY ALREADY then I'm sorry.
I'm a lot more real and spot on in my observations than you think - sometimes read a little slower. Skimming through a post and picking up on one word does not give you my opinion...yes I included the word "GREAT" but nowhere did I claim him as Great. 
JMHO - Again 
Defense wins championships. Watson play your butt off!
Go Browns!
CHRIST HAS RISEN!
GM Strong! & Stay safe everyone!
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,331
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,331 |
So you think he is a future hall of famer EO This is his make of break year. I have seen some of the good points soup and others have pointed out about the kid, and I have seen some of the bad points Vers. and others have pointed out about him. IMO he is going to step up his game this year and suprise a few people.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618
Hall of Famer
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Hall of Famer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,618 |
I hope he steps his game up, but I can't see how it will be a surprise. Most people on here talk about him like he already is a very good player. They have from day one. I say he is the most overrated player on the team. In reality, he has done very little on the football field. He has not been instinctive, is rarely around the ball, and his good speed is negated by the above.
Another thing...........Pool doesn't get ripped for some of his poor play because he is NOT the guy you see getting burned by a receiver. The reason..........he is usually so far out of the picture that the fans don't notice him. Mr. Lost in Space. LOL
Now..........I am not saying that he will always be bad, but I do agree w/you that this will be a big year for him. He needs to start making some progress. Let's put it this way.........if he hadn't been picked so high, I doubt he would be thought of as the starter. I do know that Hamilton outplayed Pool in his limited time last year.
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters compared to what lies within us."
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,331
Legend
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 27,331 |
Quote:
I hope he steps his game up, but I can't see how it will be a surprise.
We all hope he steps up his game.  but I still think it will be a suprise to many if he does. Not everybody on this board thinks he is good.
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In reality, he has done very little on the football field. He has not been instinctive, is rarely around the ball, and his good speed is negated by the above.
IMO that has been because he has been over thinking and not playing. Like I said thats just my opinion and I have no facts or inside info to back that up. But this will be his make or break season.
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Pool doesn't get ripped for some of his poor play because he is NOT the guy you see getting burned by a receiver. The reason..........he is usually so far out of the picture that the fans don't notice him. Mr. Lost in Space. LOL
Oh great if he gets beat this season I will have the mental picture of him waving his arms and yelling *danger, danger, warning Will Robinson* 
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I do know that Hamilton outplayed Pool in his limited time last year.
I agree 100 percent Vers. and the thought of having three good safety's makes me drool.
I AM ALWAYS RIGHT... except when I am wrong.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum So, how's Brodney Pool
progressing?
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