DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Future of Europe Hangs in Balance as Polls Open in United Kingdom

It looks like it's stabilized for now against the dollar and euro. I guess we might have to wait until morning.

Pretty shocked. Our phone has been ringing all night and our email and facebook exploded. Everybody we know in the UK plus their friends and family are shocked, disgusted and very disappointed.

We are actually going to the UK in a couple weeks. Maybe I should order my pounds tomorrow?

Erik, I'm more than willing to publicly eat my fair share of humble pie...I'm humbled. But, it's less about me and my failing to see this happening and more about something much, much bigger. This could be the end of the European Union. I don't think that's a good thing and from what our family and friends say they too can't see a silver lining in this.

But, we will have to wait and see once the dust settles.

Wow. Was not expecting that. Glad I shifted my pounds to Aussie dollars years ago.

11% drop. the euro took 4%.

can't wait til we go to Germany on vaca in august!!

While I understood why Britain wanted to bounce, I hope they know what they're doing.

The EU is still their largest trade partner. While they of course can trade with other non EU countries(obviously) this is gonna put a good dent in trade while they negotiate their withdrawal.

Even BBC and others are saying there's a possibility of a recession happening.

I'm happy for our military stationed around Europe though. They are about to make it rain

Here's how it could affect the US.

So in 2014, America directly invested 1.81 trillion euro, and the EU invested the same into America at the tune of 1.99 trillion.

Here's an article on some issues:

http://www.vox.com/2016/6/23/12021222/brexit-what-happens-next?yptr=yahoo

Of everything, this part stood out to me the most:


"If you are Nissan or some other car producer with major production in the UK, today, the same safety standards and environmental standards allow you to sell everywhere in the European market," Jacob Funk Kirkegaard, an economist at the Peterson Institute for International Economics, told me. But if the UK leaves the EU, "you would no longer be able to sell into other European markets, not because you face a small tariff but because you'd have to go through another set of safety certifications. This kind of thing would be repeated in every industry you can think of."

This is the Brits growing a pair , and saying yes we can ! They don't want the Nanny State of the EU running very important parts of THEIR Country ..

Maybe.

But there's already people on social media crying about how they voted for "leave" but didn't know stocks and currencies would go down.

So we will see.

What the UK needs to do is a Norway style deal with the EU.

Norway isn't part of the EU, but they negotiated certain parts that way they have access to the entire market.

But we will see. This has another whole two years to play out.

The stocks will recover, the new trade deals will be written, and the UK will become stronger. The EU is done, and it deserved to be done. The UK had the strongest currency before the EU, and it will again. France, Italy, and Netherlands are already talking about a referendum in those countries too. Germany had better hurry or they'll wind up holding the bill.

In the interest of getting a better understanding of your point of view, why do you consider nationalism a bad thing? What's the difference between nationalism and patriotism? Is there one? How relevant do you feel concerns about sovereignty are?

Based off what?

You should know better than to take definitive stances on a global economy.

Also, while I predicted Britain would bounce, you need to curve your optimism a bit.

EU still holds the upper hand in all negotiations, as they control the market. They aren't gonna make the withdrawal easy, and they have the power to make the agreement so stingy that it acts as a deferment for anybody else to bounce.

Also, there's always minor talk of other countries bouncing. Germany has been whispering about it since the day they joined.

Italy won't be next, their economy isn't doing well. Germany MIGHT, but the problem is they have big control over the EU as well.

This is why PDX asked you to read up on this bro.

From a cultural standpoint, it's why a lot of European nations have drummed up calling Germsny nazi's again. When countries ask the EU for financial aid, they're really asking Germany, as they hold a huge portion of the financial power. nobody gets assistance if Germany doesn't sign off.

This is it...they don't know what to expect next. Over 50's voted overwhelmingly to leave. I think this has to do with a Britain they remember pre-European Union. Thing is, the world and the world's economies have all changed since then. What is down the road for Britain is anybody's guess at this point.

Apparently 28% didn't vote.

If this happens here in Nov. say hello to President Trump.

Damn, I just read something that could completely screw the UK.

PDX, bro, I forgot that nations around the world invest in the UK because it serves as an entry point into the markets in the EU.

With that potentially gone...... Nations will most likely flock to Germany.... Or Eastern European countries who are practically begging people to invest in their countries, like Slovenia, Slovakia, Serbia, etc

Boy oh boy.

Based off my beliefs. What are your assertions based on?

The UK will redo trade deals, and they will favor the UK. Therefore, the UK will become stronger. The EU has been a CF set for failure from the beginning. If not, why have so many countries, like Germany, thought about getting out from the beginning? I do read up on this stuff, which should be obvious. I just think differently from you, and you don't agree with my opinions.

They call Germany nazis because it's an easy insult. I think PDX actually equates nationalism with nazism. They are not the same thing.

I also think these countries economies aren't doing well because of the EU. The EU is trying to make a level playing field, and it will never be one. There is never a 'one size fits all' answer. When you level a playing field, you have to bring everyone down to the same level, and that just makes everyone more poor.

Greece, for example, allows all their citizens to retire at age 50, and they go on the government dole. Once you have more people retired than paying into the system, the system collapses. The EU experiment was little more than another experiment in socialism, which fails. Just like Margaret Thatcher said, "The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." Seeing as you have said that the main fallacy is that none of these countries money was equal when they joined, they are now running out of other people's money. The UK decided they weren't going to be stuck holding the check.

Nationalism, pride in the superiority of your own nation, clashes with my internal value of humility. Nationalism promotes the idea of a dominant culture above all, and from there people push it to keep, or expand the status quo for the majority.



Not too sure, honestly. I've looked up a plethora of definitions, analysis on the two words, and lots of other commentary; everyone seemed a bit lost. I did find one commentary on patriotism that shifted the view for me.

A patriot acknowledges the strengths of their country, but then sees how it can get better. I feel a true patriot, in America, stands up for the rights of not only the majority, but also of the oppressed. This acts as a stark contrast to a nationalist of pushing for the status quo of what makes America great, and to keep it great.



Self-governing gives no qualms to me, Devil. I just think the UK exit occurred due a "fear of the other". The same kind of fear that gives rise to buffoons like Trump.

Mine are based off the markets, past deals, present deals, and other situations that are relative to this situation.

It's why I ask you to be more detailed, as you seem to base your arguments off emotion, rather than finances.

The nazi line is a lot deeper than just an insult. You need to read up on how Germany essentially controls the finances in the EU.

While I don't agree wit bother nations calling them nazi's, I see why they would imply that with regards to their economic and financial grip on the EU

The world is going to globalism and this is just one last effort to try and slow it down.

I woke up to a Facebook wall completely dominated by the Brexit and all of our friends and family are at a loss for words. Some are humorous, and even scathingly funny just as you would expect from the Brits. But, most are literally clinging at straws as to what is next.

I read this letter from the Archbishop of Canterbury. It gets a bit "godly" towards the end but, I can see past that as one would expect it to given who has written it but, it is still a good read. I thought I would share it here for those who have taken an interest in this historic vote.


From the Archbishop of Canterbury:

Following the UK's vote to leave the European Union, I've made this joint statement with the Archbishop of York John Sentamu:

"On Thursday, millions of people from across the United Kingdom voted in the referendum, and a majority expressed a desire that Britain’s future is to be outside the European Union

The outcome of this referendum has been determined by the people of this country. It is now the responsibility of the Government, with the support of Parliament, to take full account of the outcome of the referendum, and, in the light of this, decide upon the next steps. This morning, the Prime Minister David Cameron has offered a framework for when this process might formally begin.

The vote to withdraw from the European Union means that now we must all reimagine both what it means to be the United Kingdom in an interdependent world and what values and virtues should shape and guide our relationships with others.

As citizens of the United Kingdom, whatever our views during the referendum campaign, we must now unite in a common task to build a generous and forward looking country, contributing to human flourishing around the world. We must remain hospitable and compassionate, builders of bridges and not barriers. Many of those living among us and alongside us as neighbours, friends and work colleagues come from overseas and some will feel a deep sense of insecurity. We must respond by offering reassurance, by cherishing our wonderfully diverse society, and by affirming the unique contribution of each and every one.

The referendum campaign has been vigorous and at times has caused hurt to those on one side or the other. We must therefore act with humility and courage – being true to the principles that make the very best of our nation. Unity, hope and generosity will enable us to overcome the period of transition that will now happen, and to emerge confident and successful. The opportunities and challenges that face us as a nation and as global citizens are too significant for us to settle for less.

As those who hope and trust in the living God, let us pray for all our leaders, especially for Prime Minister David Cameron in his remaining months in office. We also pray for leaders across Europe, and around the world, as they face this dramatic change. Let us pray especially that we may go forward to build a good United Kingdom that, though relating to the rest of Europe in a new way will play its part amongst the nations in the pursuit of the common good throughout the world."

Germany controls the finances of the EU because the German mark was the strongest currency when they joined. To put it simply, they are the EU when it comes to finance.

My thoughts on markets are also based on trends of the past, just like yours. When have you not seen an economy recover? They all recover, some just more than others. The UK(Britain) has recovered from every setback they've ever had, starting with the Roman invasion. My beliefs are not based off of emotion. They will take a hit, then they will recover. People in the world want products and services from the UK, and that will continue. Do you really think the rest of the EU is going to isolate them somehow? The EU is done.

I really wish people would put an end to using insults like 'nazi' and 'racist' so easily. It really dilutes the true meaning of those terms.

The EU is going to fail because there is never a 'one size fits all' solution. This is why people are up in arms about the current administration. Government is best when it is more local to the people, as it is more accountable to the people.

David Cameron is stepping down as PM.

this idiot:



clearly has his countries mixed up.

anyway, So the leader of Scotland is threatening to put up another vote on independence, as scotland had voted in favor of staying in, and it wasn't even close.

Same with Northern Ireland.

Scotland definitely benefited from being in the EU, so it makes since that they would try again for a vote that way they can stay in.

Go on The Donald, let's hear ya start name calling her like a five year old because ya got burnt and dusted and called a moron! Haha. Let the adult kid war between Trump and Lilly start, hahahaha.

Gosh, so pathetic. I don't see Scotland leaving the EU.

They don't have a choice unless they vote for independence.


Same with Northern Ireland. Those two areas already pissed, because Britain is going on about leaving the EU forgetting they got two other countries who depend on them attached.

The cluster has only begun.

It is really weird reading some of the happenings over there.
That the people who voted to leave only did it for immigration reasons and never thought there would be any financial ramifications and are freaking out.
That there are frantic google searches by those who voted to leave looking up exactly what the EU is and what it means from here.
That there are middle age folks in the UK that now may not be able to work or travel to the other 27 countries.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre...ntry?CMP=twt_gu


We have woken up in a different country

Jonathan Freedland

For the 48% who voted to remain, and for most of the watching world, Britain has changed in a way that makes the heart sink

EU referendum – live

Man and woman watching EU referendum results come in
‘England is exposed as a land divided: London, along with the cities of Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds and Bristol stood apart from the rest of England and Wales in wanting to stay in.’ Photograph: Rob Stothard/PA

@Freedland

Friday 24 June 2016 01.16 EDT Last modified on Friday 24 June 2016 08.30 EDT

We have woken up in a different country. The Britain that existed until 23 June 2016 will not exist any more.

For those who ran the leave campaign – and for the clear majority who voted to leave the European Union – that is a cause for celebration. This, they insist, will be remembered as our “independence day”. From now, they say, Britain will be a proud, self-governing nation unshackled by the edicts of Brussels.

But for the 48% who voted the other way, and for most of the watching world, Britain is changed in a way that makes the heart sink rather than soar.

For one thing, there is now a genuine question over the shape of this kingdom. Scotland (like London) voted to remain inside the European Union. Every one of its political parties (bar Ukip) urged a remain vote. Yet now Scotland is set to be dragged out of the EU, against its collective will.



Follow live developments as Britain votes to leave the European Union

The demand will be loud and instant for Scotland to assure its own destiny by breaking free of the UK. This is precisely the kind of “material change” that the Scottish National party always said would be enough to warrant a second referendum to follow the one held in 2014. And this time, surely, there will be a majority for independence. So a first legacy of 23 June could well be the imminent break-up of the UK.

The implications will be profound for Northern Ireland too. The return of a “hard border” between north and south imperils a peace that was hard-won and too often taken for granted. Note this morning’s warning from Sinn Féin that the British government has “forfeited any mandate to represent the economic and political interests of people in Northern Ireland”.

Of course, the divisions don’t end there. England is exposed as a land divided: London, along with the cities of Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds and Bristol stood apart from the rest of England and Wales in wanting to stay in. There is a yawning class divide, pitting city against town and, more profoundly, those who feel they have something to lose against those who feel they do not.

What determined the outcome as much as anything else was the fact that the latter group, many concentrated in what used to be called Labour heartlands, defied the party’s call and voted out. This is a deep rift that will haunt the politics of the coming era. Labour’s prospects will stand or fall on how they navigate it – and they are not the only ones.


The economy of this new, Brexiting land will be different too. The instant reaction of the markets and the plunging of the pound seemed to confirm the predictions of those who were accused during the campaign of scaremongering. The talk is of an immediate battering. True, that talk comes from “experts” – that group who, like all those in authority, seem to have been rejected so emphatically by 52% of the electorate. But events may soon prove that the expert predictions of a lurch into recession were not exaggerated. Governments and markets around the world reacted to the leave vote with horror.

And this offers a warning of a deep change for Britain, a shift in how we are seen by the rest of the world. For decades, we were regarded as a great place to invest in, to move to or just to visit because we were the English-speaking gateway to the 27 nations of the European Union. We had a kind of best-of-both-worlds status, close to the US, close to the European continent.

That physical geography has not changed, but the psychological geography has. Suddenly it will make much less sense to headquarter a big international firm in London, or for a Japanese car-maker to locate a factory – one that aims to sell into Europe – in the north-east of England. Why do it, if you could be in Germany instead? Why come to post-Brexit Britain, where there could soon be the hassle of visas and tariffs and all the rest? Why bother?

The risk is that Britain becomes a kind of offshore oddity, quirky but irrelevant – shut out of the action of its neighbouring continent. That shift will be felt first by the City of London: perhaps few will shed any tears for them, even if financial services are – or used to be – one of this country’s biggest employers. But eventually that new view of Britain could percolate through, affecting our creative industries, our tourism and eventually our place in the world.

All of this will take some time. Who knows, perhaps the worst effects can be avoided altogether. But we should not be under any illusions. This is not the country it was yesterday. That place has gone for ever.

Link

Maybe they all didn't completely know what they were voting for?

The British are frantically Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2016/06/24/the-british-are-frantically-googling-what-the-eu-is-hours-after-voting-to-leave-it/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_switch-google-1145a-top%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

Seems like we're all reading different reasons for the votes.

But one thing is the same: nobody expected the financial and employment consequences of voting to leave.

All well. I just dumped 300 in the market. Gonna do 500 next week.

I don't feel bad for profiting off their misery. They did it to themselves. The information was out there. They chose to ignore it.

Thanks for the reply. Your differentiation between nationalism and patriotism makes a lot of sense. I've got a few more questions for you if I can get the time to squeeze them in later.

Tack on that Obama basically said because of the vote they can count on not having any trade deals worked out with the U.S.

If Britain's membership in the EU was THAT key, even withdrawing they will still be important. And one would assume that if other countries start pulling out, that would only serve to strengthen their position by comparison.

I listened to some of his presser this a.m.... he made many distinctions between the countries. I'm not discounting the possibility he's a buffoon, but his remarks on the subject also make it as likely he was commenting on the situation as a whole from where he happened to physically be.

FWIW of course

Really? It's been 12 hours since the vote, and the lot of you are basically calling them bankrupt. The pound dropped from 1.5016 vs the USD last night to a low of 1.3246. It's already back to 1.3747. It might actually take a few weeks, and even you dropped money into the market. This is nothing, and the GBP will recover in far less than 6 months.

Yup. In the end, this will be like a lot of things in history - just a blip.

Yep. They have negotiate different trade agreements with a host of countries now. Now, what helps England with regard to us is, for example their cars, they already meet the regulations for emissions and safety an all that.

But I feel bad with those regulations with European nations, as without the EU, they all different requirements that England now has to meet once the withdrawal goes through.

Yikes.

And don't take this the wrong way devil, but it's funny to me that white people,are crying about other white people(Poland) taking their jobs. Typically it's blame the colored folk first, but they can't do that, now can they. My little soap box moment.

Anyway, as far as other countries bouncing, maybe, but since EU is literally THE market, I doubt it. People are looking at the situation with the market and the UK, and especially cash strapped countries aren't gonna want to risk that.

The EU was an excellent concept for trades, but the moment they started trying to push this globalism ideology, we seen how quick it's falling apart.

The EU needs to get back to only legislating trade if they want to continue on. Also, countries need to have more of a say in who gets bailout money.

Like Greece. Most European nations were ok with the first bailout. But the second and third? Nah bro, I'd be telling them to shove it, as well ya know?

I'll tell you this though: England was the place for foriegn nations to gain entry into the EU market.

If I'm a poor ass country like Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Poland? Bro, I'm trying to open the flood gates so that IM now the entry point into the market. I'm offering all kinds of stuff to attract foreign investors. Strong economies like Germany and such don't have to do that, but countries that the ones I named that require foreigners for economic support? Tax breaks!!!

You get a tax break!!

You get a tax break!!

Everybody gets tax breaks!! Straight Oprah on their asses.

England will recover, but I'm not talking about them. They now have a huge problem just locally they have to deal with.

Scotland and Northern Ireland rely on the EU heavy. Read what I'm saying. The UK isn't just England.

Not really.

Meh. Europe was fine before the EU and they will be fine after the EU.

Western Europe or Eastern Europe?

Because looking at history before the EU and Eurozone, I wouldn't exactly describe that as "fine".