DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum A Closer Look at the Passing Game-Hue/2016

I don't know a lot about Pryor as a receiver, haven't watched him run maybe 3 routes tops.

I remember watching him both in college and in the NFL as QB and marveling at his athleticism.

Hearing about him as WR I thought it was interesting but wondered if he really wanted it.

I think he has the skillset to do it. Other QBs have famously made that transition.

Looking at him vs say a Braxton Miller, its hard for me to view Braxton's upside/potential as a WR is greater then Pryor's. I know Braxton made the switch in college with some success. But Pryor is already an NFL veteran, having played arguably the toughest position in the NFL and now has a season at receiver in the NFL under his belt.

Are you actually serious, or just being deliberately obtuse?


You post an article whose title is "Cleveland Browns Wide Receiver Josh Gordon in the Hue Jackson Pass Game Part II", and even the link has his name in the freaking URL, but you think *I* am the one that brought him into this? You post that and think people won't and shouldn't mention him?
The entirety of your post began and ended with Josh Gordon. It was Josh-centric.

I think maybe you've been smoking with Josh a little too much, maybe

The best thing about Pryor last year was his blocking down-field.

He has been a work in progress, and I would think that it would be almost impossible to make the transition from QB to WR while missing almost all of training camp. We'll see how he has progressed this year, with, hopefully, a full camp.

Jim Brown: Josh Gordon 'ready to take responsibility'

By Marc Sessler
Around the NFL Writer

The Cleveland Browns have yet to learn if Josh Gordon's indefinite suspension will be lifted in time for Week 1, but Hall of Fame running back Jim Brown believes the receiver is making progress.

"I've talked with Josh twice on the phone, and the last time I talked with him he sounded very motivated and I think he was in rehab and feeling good about it and discovering some things about himself," Brown, an advisor to the team, told Mary Kay Cabot of The Plain Dealer during a Browns Foundation golf outing Wednesday. "He really seemed ready to take responsibility for himself."

NFL Media Insider Ian Rapoport reported in April that Gordon failed another drug test in March, prompting the NFL to deny his application for reinstatement. The wideout can reapply after Aug. 1.

Brown told Cabot that he wasn't certain whether Gordon attended inpatient or outpatient rehab for substance use, saying he believed Gordon was at home when they spoke. Brown added: "His way of expressing himself, the responsibility he was taking made me feel really very motivated about his chance of getting back."

Brown went on to suggest that coach Hue Jackson and Browns owner Jimmy Haslam would welcome Gordon into the fold if he's reinstated.

"If he adheres to the demands that the league put on him, and he carries that out," said Brown, "I'm sure they'll be very happy to have him back."

It's a complete mystery, though, whether the NFL will agree after issuing multiple bans over the years on Gordon, who hasn't played a game since December 2014 and was spotted, in April, hanging out with free-agent quarterback Johnny Manziel in Southern California.

The Browns, meanwhile, made it clear they aren't counting on Gordon after selecting four receivers -- Corey Coleman, Ricardo Louis, Rashard Higgins and Jordan Payton -- and tight end Seth Devalve -- in this year's draft. Still, adding Gordon -- the NFL's leading receiver from 2013 -- to Jackson's offense would go a long way toward helping the Browns compete.

"He would really be a great addition," Brown said. "He's a great receiver and I think he's a pretty nice young man, but in today's society, substance plays a big part. ... He's trying. It's up to him."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...-responsibility

We'll see.

I see no way that the Browns can afford to take yet another chance on him.

None.

I see no way even the "new slate" motto being applied to Josh.

Only if it can be rolled and lit

It's gonna be interesting to watch the receiver depth chart separate itself.

I feel like Coleman is a lock as the #1 WR but #2 seems wide open.

I wonder how legit Pryor is and wonder if Hawkins or Gabriel could be the starting #2 opposite Coleman

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-10-most-improved-nfl-position-groups-this-offseason/

10. Browns’ wide receivers

Previous players: Travis Benjamin (69.8), Brian Hartline (72.1), Dwayne Bowe (60.6)

New players: Corey Coleman (rookie), Rashard Higgins (rookie), Jordan Payton (rookie), Ricardo Louis (rookie)

There were very few good wide receivers in free agency, and the draft class wasn’t as strong as previous years, so if a team wanted to revamp their receiving corps, it was going to be very difficult to do so. Despite that, the Browns found a way by drafting four wide receivers who could all see significant playing time this year. Their two most promising receivers were Corey Coleman and Rashard Higgins, who finished third and fifth, respectively, in yards per route run in 2015. While it might take a year or two for the receivers to develop, it will be sooner rather than later before they become a strong unit.

It might take a year or two for them to be a 'strong unit' and it might take forever.

Your boy rg3 is the wildcard, as a Browns fan I'd love to see him ball out.

Btw, I hope hue makes his mind up on our starter very early in camp

A reciever needs to know every route and more importantly he needs to know what route to run depending on what the defense does. He's usually got a couple choices and depending on what D he sees he runs one of them. Pretty important for the WR's and QB to be on the same page, see things the same and know what routes are being run play to play.... when they aren't you see a lot of horrific interceptions.

The nice thing is we have one of if not THE best WR coach in all the land.... He was on Coryell's staff. He was on the Greatest Show staff. I'm not the least bit worried about the WR coaching. What these rooks have Saunders will get it out of them. Just comes down to if they have it in them to be NFL players or not. I love what I read yesterday about Coach Jacksons wanting to run a tough camp. All his advisers are telling him to take it real easy and he's not buying into that. Said he's going to run it his way and it will be a bitch! No more camp cupcake. I suspect if he got the WR's gassed in OTA's he's really going to run them hard in camp. That's good. WR's need to run and run some more. Don't want to see them breathing through their mouth in the third quarter....

just to add to this thought, although Hue is pointedly avoiding 'naming a starter', it is telling that RG3 has been receiving most of the first team reps.

On WR Corey Coleman:

It's not hard to improve on when your position group was basically the worst in the NFL in 2015.
It's up to these new WR to be able beat man press consistantly and be to catch in tight windows
This isn't college anymore
They better have their thinking caps on

Good thing beating press is one of Coleman's strengths.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/film-room/2016/film-room-andy-dalton

Good article on Hue's offense w/Andy

really interesting article thanks for posting

I don't want to say "worst case scenario" because I don't believe it would be, but in your opinion do you think McCown is a guy who's game that could be elevated by someone like Hue? When we talk about the other QB's its like: Kessler: "Maybe Hue can turn him in to NFL calibre..." RGIII: "Maybe Hue can bring him back to respectability..." McCown: "We already know what we have in him". It seems we collectively just brush him under the rug and IMO I don't think we should dismiss him so handily for the following reasons:

-"We already know what we have" is the same thing many people said when we signed him. The general consensus was that he was going to be atrocious. Eotab was really the lone voice in the wilderness who laid out the conditions where he could be decent for us, and I think he was proven right on that.

-Before you get to McCown's talent level, he's an excellent example of the kind of players Hue wants on this roster. He works extremely hard, he's an absolute professional, he puts the team first, and even at his age he's shown he's willing to put it all on the line.


Clearly McCown isn't an Elite QB. Even though he played well in stretches last season, his game wasn't at the level where HE was going to get us over the top for the win. But if a rookie OC like Flip can put together an offense where he can look decent, what can a guy like Hue do with him?

I don't know. Maybe I'm just being unrealistic? lol I guess I'm just not ready to buy in to the conventional wisdom that if RGIII doesn't become what they are trying to get him to be that we are completely screwed. I won't be so bold as to predict he'd become a Rich Gannon for us, but looking at all of it, I think there is a strong possibility that he's in a position to play his best football yet ("best" being a relative term of course lol)

I guess the short question is: do you think McCown has any room to improve under a guy like Hue if he's who we end up with?

Just my $0.02 on that...

I don't know that McCown himself will get elevated, but I think we could see better results simply because I think the offense can work better than last year's and I think that these coaches can get more out of the WR's. So, McCown will be McCown, but he can (and I think will) still look even better in his new surroundings.

Say what you will of McCown, but he's still the best QB we've had since The Return. Better than Holcomb, better than Anderson - I think folks may already be forgetting things like the three consecutive 300-yard games (including the monster 457 against Baltimore). Not saying that he's the answer to anything long-term, but he wasn't the problem last year.

If there are any doubts with RG3, at the very least, we'll be plenty Ok with McCown at the helm.

I hope one of our young QBs can beat McCown for the starting job. I like McCown but he isnt a long term answer and he is gonna make really stupid throws off his back foot for no reason that will cost you games. But he is gonna be hard to leap frog in camp.

This QB competititon is full swing right now. If Kessler and RG3 want to challenge Josh, they have to come back into camp with complete knowledge of this offense. You simply are not gonna beat him out trying to learn while he is doing.

I tend to agree Prp. McCown is gonna do some things that would make me pull my hair out if i had hair but you can win games with this guy. Also he didnt have anyone other than Duke last year that was capable of taking the small play and turning it into the big play.

Even if Josh wins the job, the #2 man better be ready cause, He is gonna be going in soon enough.

^
This (and for Purp too!)

Mourg, I 100% agree that we didn't have anyone other than really Duke who had the ability/potential to score form anywhere on the field. If the potential we have on this year's roster pans out, I don't think we'll see anymore 15-20 play drives designed to keep us in a game by keeping the other offense off the field.

I don't think McCown is a long term answer either, and I hope my post didn't come off that way. I just don't feel like the RGIII thing is an all or nothing deal as in: either RGIII studs out and we have it all, or RGIII flops and the cupboard is bare at the position. When it comes to rebuilding the team, if we don't have "The Guy" to build the future on, the next best thing is a guy who can competently execute the offense because you can still develop the other 52 on the roster.

Thanks for the input guys

Basically - McCown is a Bridge Guy, but he's old and probably has at most a year or two left in the tank.

RG3, is NOT a long-term answer to anything for us, but hopefully he can become the longer-term Bridge Guy. Although, with his athletic talents, if he can get the mental side of the game at the same level as McCown, then perhaps he CAN be something.

Either way, the two of them are placeholders - they aren't meant to solve the puzzle. They are there to buy us time and be just good enough to allow us to be able to evaluate and grow the rest of the offense while we work on finding The Guy.

Kessler? Right now, he's just A Guy. He'll make the roster because we drafted him and there is no way he'd clear waivers to make the practice squad, but I expect that there is little chance at all that he is able to leapfrog either of the other two. He'll get the nod over the other backups by default.

I think Hue/Pep/Al are gonna help all the QBS on the roster play their best football.

I think both the scheme and the personnel have improved.

These are the types of articles that I love. Xs and Os and in depth analysis.

As HC I can only imagine that Hue will push his unique concepts even further.

[quote=PrplPplEater] Basically -
RG3, is NOT a long-term answer to anything for us, but hopefully he can become the longer-term Bridge Guy. Although, with his athletic talents, if he can get the mental side of the game at the same level as McCown, then perhaps he CAN be something.

So prpl, you are just like the rest of us, we just do't know at this point.
My hope is he CAN but I will also accept if he CANNOT

of course we don't know. Even the coaches don't know. lol, even Vegas doesn't know.

If we knew, we wouldn't be talking about it on a message board.

Hue Jackson success as the Bengals OC won't immediately
Translate to the Browns becoming this offensive juggernaut.
He is inheriting a offensive with young skill players especially at WR.
RG3 isn't exactly a genius when it comes to reading defenses
Josh McCown well his record is well known.
It's a challege on both ends for coaches and players.
Jackson had alot of formation and shifts in Cincy.
You need smart players to pull that off.
Time will tell.

Have you ever posted on DawgTalkers?? Even if we did know we'd still be going back and forth about how the other Dawg doesn't know lol

Is this intended as reply to something I wrote or you're Just Clicking?

I'm not/nor do I recall anyone saying/expecting an offensive juggernaut or anything close.

Article on read-option/zone-read and its impact on an offense, through the prism of the Seattle Seahawks aka "NFL's best zone-read team'. Griffin's skillset would allow Hue/Staff to use similar zone-read concepts as Seattle to build the offense around Griffin.

The article also explains how the zone-read helps the offensive line block.

Why Seattle is the NFL’s best at the zone read
https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-why-seattle-is-the-nfls-best-at-the-zone-read/

^^The zone-read QB run threat freezes the backside contain player(s) in this case.

Usually though zone-read allows the offense to account for 1 defender without actually blocking them.

Just clicking that's all

JC Didn't know where to post this

https://twitter.com/ochocinco/status/752907098061537280

Chad JohnsonVerified account
‏@ochocinco
What a blessing Hue Jackson is, see y'all in Cleveland on the 28th, no cleats this time just knowledge


Chad Jawson is coaching the Browns a bit at Minicamp it appears.

Chad Johnson asks Hue Jackson for job with Browns
By Conor Orr
Around The NFL Writer
Published: July 12, 2016 at 02:05 p.m. Updated: July 12, 2016 at 08:49 p.m.

Welp, it's the middle of July and we're still a few weeks away from meaningful football. Time to see what former NFL star Chad Johnson (Ochocinco) is up to.

Follow
Chad Johnson ✔ @ochocinco
Gonna ask Hue if I can join the Browns coaching staff as a "route running specialist" assistant receiver coach, what's the worse he can say.
1:18 PM - 11 Jul 2016
739 739 Retweets 1,343 1,343 likes

Follow
Chad Johnson ✔ @ochocinco
@Browns Can you ask Hue if I can come in & work with the receivers, thanks.
7:50 PM - 9 Mar 2016
1,529 1,529 Retweets 1,841 1,841 likes


And then this when asked why he hasn't asked Bengals coach Marvin Lewis for the chance to come back and help out the Bengals:


Follow
Chad Johnson ✔ @ochocinco
I wasn't even allowed in the locker room when I came back, I doubt I'm welcome as a coach. https://twitter.com/StevenWMatthews/status/752673186458796032 …
9:25 PM - 11 Jul 2016
65 65 Retweets 168 168 likes


Later, Johnson hinted he might indeed have some sort of budding role under Jackson in Cleveland.

Follow
Chad Johnson ✔ @ochocinco
What a blessing Hue Jackson is, see y'all in Cleveland on the 28th, no cleats this time just knowledge
12:46 PM - 12 Jul 2016
2,626 2,626 Retweets 3,563 3,563 likes


Yeah.

All opinions aside, Johnson's request comes at an interesting time. On Monday, the day he tweeted about helping out old wide receivers coach Hue Jackson in his new gig, NFL Network re-ran the Hard Knocks season from 2009 which featured the Bengals. Johnson was obviously a star for many reasons, including the revelation that he ate McDonald's before every game. His sideline antics contrasted nicely with Lewis and then-defensive coordinator Mike Zimmer's death stares.

On the field, he was a menace. It was easy to see the type of respect he garnered around the league, especially during a moment of foreshadowing when Johnson talked to Patriots coach Bill Belichick on the field before a preseason game.

We're not pumping Johnson for the job, but we are reminding people to watch that season of Hard Knocks to see how excellent of a route runner Johnson really was. Perhaps he turned some people off with the Ochocinco lifestyle, but there was no doubt that he was an insanely crisp route runner and one of the fastest game-speed receivers of the era.

UPDATE: A person familiar with the situation clarified Johnson's tweet for us: Hue Jackson, a good friend of Johnson's, has invited him to training camp to spend some time with the team's receiving corps. So we might be witnessing the birth off CoachoCinco (h/t @BovaConstrictor for the A-plus nickname idea) though not in an official capacity with the Browns.


http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...job-with-browns

Too much!