DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Pope says Christians should apologize to gay people

lol, oh man, absolute crap storms all over social media right now. arguments, mud slinging, name calling, the works!! fire storm!!

...i'll just sit this here:

http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/26/world/pope-apologize-gays/

Aboard the Papal Plane (CNN)Pope Francis said Sunday that Christians owe apologies to gays and others who have been offended or exploited by the church, remarks that some Catholics hailed as a breakthrough in the church's tone toward homosexuality.

"I repeat what the Catechism of the Catholic Church says: that they must not be discriminated against, that they must be respected and accompanied pastorally," Francis said at a press conference aboard the papal plane returning from Armenia.
"The Church must ask forgiveness for not behaving many times -- when I say the Church, I mean Christians! The Church is holy, we are sinners!"
As he often does during unscripted moments -- particularly papal news conferences -- the Pope spoke expansively, saying the church should seek forgiveness for a number of historical slights committed in its name.
Groundbreaking Moment
"I believe that the church not only should apologize to the person who is gay whom it has offended," he added, "but has to apologize to the poor, to exploited women, to children exploited for labor; it has to ask forgiveness for having blessed many weapons."
The Rev. James Martin, a Jesuit priest and editor at large of America magazine, called the Pope's apology to gays and lesbians "a groundbreaking moment."
"While St. John Paul II apologized to several groups in 2000 -- the Jewish people, indigenous peoples, immigrants and women, among them -- no pope has ever come close to apologizing to the LGBT community. And the Pope is correct of course. First, because forgiveness is an essential part of the Christian life. And second, because no group feels more marginalized in the church today than LGBT people."
The Pope's comments came in response to a question about a German Cardinal who said the Catholic Church should apologize for being "very negative" about gays. The Pope was also asked whether Christians bear some blame for hatred toward the LGBT community, as horrifically demonstrated in the Orlando massacre at a gay night club that killed 49 people on June 12.
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Sorrow. Dismay. Pain. #PopeFrancis, when I mentioned Orlando massacre.
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Repeating the teaching of the Catechism of the Catholic Church about respecting and not discriminating against gays, Pope Francis said that one could condemn certain behavior.
"One can condemn, but not for theological reasons, but for reasons of political behavior...Certain manifestations are a bit too offensive for others, no?
"But these are things that have nothing to do with the problem. The problem is a person that has a condition, that has good will and who seeks God, who are we to judge? And we must accompany them well."
'Immense Blessing'
Francis first uttered that rhetorical question -- Who am I to judge gay people? -- in 2013, also during a news conference on the papal plane. His comments were hailed as a breakthrough for a church that has historically condemned homosexuality, often in harsh terms. Francis has not changed church doctrine that calls homosexual acts sinful, but he has shown a more merciful approach to people on the margins, including gays and lesbians.
Francis DeBernardo, executive director of New Ways Ministry, a Catholic gay rights group, called the Pope's remarks "an immense blessing of healing."
"No pope has said more welcoming words to LGBT people than when Pope Francis today offered his recommendation that the Church -- indeed all Christians -- should apologize for the harm religious traditions have caused to LGBT people. The pope's statement was simple, yet powerful, and it fell from his lips so easily."
As is often the case, the Pope's press conference encompassed a number of controversial questions. Here are the Pope's answers about Brexit, former Pope Benedict XVI and why he used the word "genocide" to describe the murder of more than 1 million Armenians in the early 20th century.
Brexit
"For me, unity is always superior to conflict, but there are different forms of unity and also brotherhood. and here I come to the EU -- brotherhood is better than enmity or distance and bridges are better than walls.
"The step which the EU has to take to recover the strength of its roots is a step of creativity and healthy 'separation;' that is, to give more independence, more freedom to the countries of the EU, to think of another form of union, to be creative in jobs, in the economy..."
"There is something that is not working in that unwieldy union, but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater, let's try to jump-start things, to recreate .. today the two key words for the EU are creativity and fecundity."
Genocide
Pope Francis said that while Turkey has, "a right to protest," he has always used the word genocide, since his time in Argentina, and again last year quoting John Paul II so "it would have sounded very strange," he said, not to use it again.
"In Argentina, when you spoke about the extermination of Armenians, one always used the word genocide. I did not know another word ... When I came to Rome, I heard the other words, 'The Great Evil' and the Armenian term which I do not know how to say, and they told me that ... using 'genocide' is offensive, that you have to say something else. I have also spoken about three genocides of the last century, always three, first the Armenian, then Hitler, and the last one is Stalin."
"After I heard the tone of the President's speech and also with my past with this word, which I uttered last year in St. Peter's publicly, it would have sounded very strange not to say the same word."
Two Popes?
In response to a question about whether there are two Popes in the Vatican, a story which had received headlines recently because of a comment by Pope Benedict's personal secretary who said that the Pope Emeritus was part of an "expanded papacy," Francis said, "There is only one Pope."
"[Benedict] is the Pope Emeritus, the wise grandpa. He is the man who guards my back with his prayers."

I hope a good humanity discussion can come from this.

I love Pope Frank! He has accepted Atheists, Gays, Poor and Sick. He has spoken out against evils and injustices, he's not afraid of change and seems to really want to leave his mark on the world.

I hope he lives to be 120.

I really think he'd allow same-sex marriages, but he knows he'd get sacked in a minute.

Possibly the most "RIGHT" pope we've had in my lifetime.

Many will say the most " Left " Pope in their Life time ! To respond to Swish ; This will cause one Hell of a Fire storm in the Church .. Plays Right into the Islamic game plan also ( views on Gays ) .. We are truly in difficult times .. HISTORICAL TIMES ..

I keep hearing this, but what has this Pope said that has contradicted anything else any other Pope has said? Everything he's said has been in-line with the teachings of the church. He may be more outspoken about it, but it hasn't deviated from anything the church has taught in the past.

I think people are confusing "Do not hate/Do not condemn" with "This behavior is okay". The first has always been the teaching of the church (Catholic anyway, can't speak for all Christians). The second is something the Pope has never said.

This.

LOL I should have known.. No, I wasn't looking at this like it was right or left. I was thinking of Right in terms of his thinking.

Actually that's not accurate. Every pope I can think of has condemned. He's tried to include and embrace. That's my take. I don't expect everyone to agree of course.

Most have condemned the act of gay marriage. I don't remember any one Pope saying we should hate gay people themselves.

Francis himself has said that a marriage should between a man and a woman and that should not change. However, he has been much more insistent that everyone should be more inclusive of all sinners. He has probably said more about divorcees than gay people, but it's the second one that draws more press coverage. In both instances the message is the same. Love the sinner, but we aren't changing our stance on the sin.



The only difference is the focus of the message. Other Popes have focused on the sinful act itself. Francis' message is reminding us to still love the sinner.

Need a little fun some times ...

I see the main difference with Pope Francis...Before the main message from the Catholic leadership has been to be totally non tolerant and closed minded in regards to LGBT.

Welcome to the 21st century Catholics.

From my church's website (and newsletters)(Rocky Hill Congregational Church)(this is almost ten years old):

We welcome all who seek to follow Jesus, including persons of every age, gender, race, national origin, faith background, marital status and family structure, sexual orientation, gender identity and expression, mental and physical ability, economic and social status, and educational background, to share in the life, leadership, ministry, fellowship, worship, sacraments, responsibilities, blessings and joys of our church family.

How do the catholics make Holy Water? They boil the Hell out of it.

I'm not Catholic so I don't usually hear what the Pope has to say, until this one. He has developed quite the following among the center/left politically so he is getting a lot more press than any recent pope I remember.

I haven't had too much of an issue with most of what he has said, but I feel no need to make a big apology to anybody. My opinions and positions have shifted over time and I have made my peace with the gay people in my own life.. I'm good with that.

Meh. Nothing has changed.

Homosexual sex, Adultery, Theft, Coveting, Murder, on and on are all still Sins and anyone who sins falls short of God's Glory.

Hating people for their sins as you commit sins of your own is folly and all have sinned.

In the end, we all ride in the same boat. Without God's Mercy we all would perish together as we sailed over the falls.

First off nobody should ever apoligize for what the Church says. The Church IS NOT the people. If somebody needs to apoligize it is for what they said or did. NOT for what somebody else, or a building said.

Church of cannibis apologizes to no one.

and I would not apoligize for it, nor would I stand up for it. I Would never let a "Church stand up nor condem me

Intolerance...

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=8b6_1467049194

What? The scene looks like a music festival, and then his ass waltzes on in there and yet you think he's victimized?

That's like me willingly walking into a Klan rally all by my lonesome and somehow surprised about whatever outcome might happen, or at the very least, thinking they were gonna be nice and polite to me.

In other words, huge reach.

As usual you can't see beyond the nose on your face. You can not see the Gay community who constantly cries for tolerance, being completely intolerant of the Christian.

The KKK does not ask for your tolerance, ever. They just ask you to live somewhere else because they can not tolerate you.

Who would you consider to be more honest?

It would have taken a much more intelligent and confident individual to ignore the street preacher and carry on. This individual appears to be neither.

This is America. Americans belong anywhere in the public they would like to be......even at a street festival. Unless I missed it, the street preacher was not aggressive or engaging.

Those supporting this idiotic behavior are most likely of the same mentality.

I'm not sure I'd consider walking into a same-sex music festival with a sign that says "repent or go to hell" tolerant.

One guy got into his face, and then everyone else started dancing around him. Their counter protest made me laugh.

40 and Cjrae being irrational yet again. Surprise surprise

No surprise as you and Rocket resemble the Blind leading the Blind off a cliff.

Think I'm doing fine. All seniors who needed an English class to graduate passed on their own merits. Must do an alright job at something, eh?

Perhaps they can now speak English but after the Liberal Indoctrination that comes with educations today, what chance in life do they really have?

Reading on Facebook that he also clarified his comments, but don't let that stop the media from taking soundbites and running with it.

This is the exact quote: "I think that the Church must not only ask forgiveness from the gay person who is offended, but she must also ask for forgiveness from the poor too, from women who are exploited, from children who are exploited for labour. She must ask forgiveness for having blessed so many weapons."

He later clarified that he's speaking specifically to Christians who have made other people feel unwelcome, not "the church" in general. If you aren't going around offending or hating people, he's not speaking about you. If you are, then you should be asking for forgiveness. That's really all he said.

Sure fire way to be a popular leader these days ... let people just do whatever they want and hold no one accountable. Don't call a Sin a Sin and just surround yourself with people who have no moral compass except to surrender themselves to the desires of their flesh. This Pope does more harm than good. To fill the church coffers he panders to anyone with money to spend instead of leading Catholics to not condone sin and remove it from their lives.

"He said to them, "You are the ones who justify yourselves in the eyes of others, but God knows your hearts. What people value highly is detestable in God's sight." Luke 16:15

"Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ." Galatians 1:10

So who does a Pope serve when he just wants to make the public happy? It sure isn't God. Nothing more vile than a preacher who knows better not to condemn sin when he KNOWS that it is killing the person's soul. Depriving a person of eternity with God just because your too scared to condemn their sin and lead them back to a righteous path in life is more akin to the Devil's work. It's just sad.

What's sad as that you didn't even read what he really said. At no point is he justifying sin or trying to make everyone happy.



That's pretty much what Jesus did frequently. He talked to the woman at the well. He allowed the one woman to wash his feet with her tears and hair. He told the tax collector to come follow him. He allowed himself to be surrounded by sinners all the time, but usually when they realized that they were in fact sinners and wanted forgiveness. The people he rebuked were the ones that looked down on the sinners with disdain, despite being sinners themselves.

Jesus as a Christian myself, He really mingled with everybody in His life. In the three years He was on the earth. He had a wedding for the misfits off the streets, that normally people would not look at. Only after those He invited over for supper turned Him down.

Huh?? Jesus was only on earth for three years??

So it's better to preach hatred in your eyes?

Jeez.

A well person does not need a Doctor while the sick need Him most. Then there are those who think themselves well but are sicker than most.

Condemning sin is not preaching hatred.. In fact, quite the opposite, leading people away from sin is the ultimate form of love. As long as you are consistent in condemning sin in all of its forms, including your own.. and no, you don't have to be perfect to help other people recognize and move away from their own sins... the do not judge passage is probably the most often incorrectly quoted passage in the Bible.

I agree with the post a few above yours, Jesus loved sinners, he made it a point to hang out with sinners and socialize with sinners. He made it a point of rebuking the self-proclaimed "righteous" who were hypocrites. At no point, did he ever ACCEPT their sins.

The United Methodist Church, to which I belong, is on the verge of splitting in half over the issue of human sexuality. I have read countless articles on it, I've spoken with my pastor about it, and my primary concern is not even being addressed. The discussion is very much down in the weeds about recognizing gay marriage, accepting gay clergy, etc. My issue with it is far more simple... For centuries the church has recognized homosexuality as a sin, is it still considered a sin? If not, what led to the change. If it's a sin, then treat it like every other sin, if it's no longer a sin, tell me the Biblical reason why that change was made... it's really that simple for me. Then I can make up my mind on what I want to do about it.

This Pope's comments are really no different, he dances around about accepting and not accepting and fostering love and condemning hatred... Awesome Mr. Pope, is homosexuality still a sin in your eyes or not? Really all I want to know.

Being gay shouldn't be a sin.

Because obviously lying about being a virgin claiming you birth the son of God ain't sinning either.

Yea, obviously.

Maybe that day she was identifying as a pregnant woman giving birth. Man, you need to be more inclusive.