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So how does this square with Jesus loving us sinners enough to come to earth to die on the cross to save us from the sins he hated?


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I agree 100 percent Jules that the exact quote “Hate the sin, but love the sinner,” was never said by Jesus, in fact I don't believe it is said anywhere in the Bible even one time by anybody. If my memory is correct? That quote was made by Mahatma Ghandi.

So

1. Jesus never said it. I agree with the writer 100 percent.

2. It’s cowardly and morally inconsistent.

I disagree with the writer on this part. He says "Let’s be honest here. Whenever any Christian uses the phrase LTSHTS, it’s never in the context of anything other than gender identity and sexuality" He is wrong I have used the exact phrase hate the sin but love the sinner many, many times when talking about telling lies, stealing, committing murder, giving false testimony, etc, etc, etc so I myself have not just used them in the context only of gender identity and sexuality.

3. It’s a relationship-killer.

It could be if either one of the parties involved believe it was said out of hatred and malice, and they are hard headed enough to not try to understand, love, and forgive each other since both parties involved are sinners. Hell ever person that has ever walked this earth other than Jesus is a sinner. If you believe in God and the Bible.


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Jesus told us to love each other regardless of sin because we are not the one who is to judge people. That is God's job. Before Jesus God did not love sinners. In fact he hated sinners.

There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him:haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are quick to rush into evil, a false witness who pours out lies and a person who stirs up conflict in the community. Proverbs 6:16-19

He almost wiped out mankind for it when he purged the world with the great flood of Noah. He definately hated the sinner as much as the sin.

Even Jesus was open about why he ate with sinners. It was not because he accepted them but because he knew their lifestyle was a sickness and the only way to cure it was to lead them to REPENT of it.

After this, Jesus went out and saw a tax collector by the name of Levi sitting at his tax booth. “Follow me,” Jesus said to him, and Levi got up, left everything and followed him.Then Levi held a great banquet for Jesus at his house, and a large crowd of tax collectors and others were eating with them. But the Pharisees and the teachers of the law who belonged to their sect complained to his disciples, “Why do you eat and drink with tax collectors and sinners?” Jesus answered them, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.” Luke 5:27-32

His greatest show of love was to talk a sinner and lead them to REPENT. He didn't accept their lifestyle. He didn't accept their sin. He loved them. Offered them a place by his side IF they repented of their sin.

I think many people mistake Jesus eating with sinners as him accepting how they lived. No he went to the sinners and told them to change and give up their sinful lives and start a new life free from sin. People then hated him so much for it they murdered him for his troubles. Sinners don't like being told their life is sinful. They fight it and get man to accept them instead.

Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them. For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world. The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever. 1st John 2:15-17

John then goes on to tell you how to identify an Anti-Christ.

Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also. 1st John 2:22-23

So in short ...

God hate sin and the sinner. Even with that hate of sin though he is pure love so he seeks to save us from that sin and redeem us through the sacrifice that his son has made for us. His simple requirement is that we simply ask to be forgiven. His tough requirement is that we must repent our sinful ways and give them up. Without repentance there is NO salvation.

This idea that just because God loves everyone that you can do whatever you want, live however you want, and that so long as you go to church that you have your fire insurance paid for is insane. Jesus said, "GO AND SIN NO MORE." "I ... COME TO CALL ... SINNERS TO REPENTANCE"

Jesus never accepts sin as being okay.


You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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This has been a fun read.. though I haven't been able to focus much on the 2nd page because after this..

Quote:
Oh I'm sure he was probably fairly strong but it was that wirey farmer type strong, not the bulging muscle type strong


I've been sitting here in my head going..



Am I the only one that pronounces hyperbole "Hyper-bowl" instead of "hy-per-bo-le"?
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I am up t Hebrews on my latest trek through the Bible, and this jumped out at me:

Hebrews 10: 26-31: If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God. Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think someone deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified them, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.” It is a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.

John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
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Remarried Catholics must avoid sex and live like 'brother and sister,' archbishop says



http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/...snap-story.html

The head of the Roman Catholic Church in Philadelphia is closing the door opened by Pope Francis to letting civilly remarried Catholics receive Communion, saying the faithful in his archdiocese can only do so if they abstain from sex and live "as brother and sister."

Archbishop Charles Chaput, who is known for strongly emphasizing strict adherence to Catholic doctrine, issued a new set of pastoral guidelines for clergy and other leaders in the archdiocese that went into effect July 1. The guidelines reflect a stance taken by Pope John Paul II.

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"Undertaking to live as brother and sister is necessary for the divorced and civilly remarried to receive reconciliation in the Sacrament of Penance, which could then open the way to the Eucharist," the guidelines read.

Church teaching says that unless divorced and remarried Catholics received an annulment — a church decree that their first marriage was invalid — they are committing adultery and cannot receive the sacrament of Communion.

Chaput says the new instructions stem from Francis' sweeping document on family life released in April. That document — called "The Joy of Love" — opened a door to divorced and civilly remarried Catholics.

Pope Francis eases the way for divorced Catholics, but reiterates opposition to gay unions
Pope Francis eases the way for divorced Catholics, but reiterates opposition to gay unions
Francis didn't create a church-wide admission to Communion for divorced and civilly remarried Catholics, as some progressives had wanted. But in the April document, he suggested that bishops and priests could do so on a case-by-case basis in what could become a significant development in church practice.

The now-sainted John Paul II, in his 1982 document on the family, proposed the brother-sister option for divorced and remarried couples as the only way they could receive Communion.

In Francis' revision of that document, which conservatives like Chaput have criticized for sowing confusion, Francis made clear that John Paul's proposal was simply unrealistic and unhealthy for families.

In a footnote to "The Joy of Love," Francis wrote that many people, while acknowledging the brother-sister option, "point out that if certain expressions of intimacy are lacking, it often happens that faithfulness is endangered and the good of the children suffers."

The Philadelphia guidelines say Catholics in same-sex partnerships, civilly remarried parishioners and unmarried couples living together should not be permitted to serve on parish councils, instruct the faithful, serve as lectors or dispense Communion.

Such "irregular" relationships "offer a serious counter-witness to Catholic belief, which can only produce moral confusion in the community," the guidelines state, acknowledging it is a "hard teaching."

The new guidelines also address Catholics "who experience same-sex attraction." Chaput says such parishioners can still live out a heterosexual marriage with children, despite that attraction. Others in same-sex relationships should avoid sexual intimacy.

The guidelines, posted on the archdiocese website, urge leaders in the archdiocese to offer compassion, love, guidance and respect to all parishioners.

Bishops wield enormous authority in their dioceses in laying down such guidelines and interpreting church doctrine. Since Francis only offered bishops the option of case-by-case allowances in his April document, Chaput with these guidelines is clearly opting out for the church's nearly 1.5 million members in the Philadelphia Archdiocese.

Pope Francis: Catholic Church should apologize to gay people and others it has marginalized
Pope Francis: Catholic Church should apologize to gay people and others it has marginalized
After the papal document was released, several U.S. bishops said that, according to their interpretations, Francis' statement did not require any change in the practice of barring Communion for Catholics who divorce and remarry without an annulment.

The Rev. Thomas Reese, senior analyst for the National Catholic Reporter, said Wednesday that he thinks Francis is empowering bishops to make their own judgment calls on how church teaching should be applied in their diocese.

"Somebody in the diocese next door could release a letter that says something totally different," Reese said.

Robert Bankle, a retired editor of a construction publication who volunteers as a greeter at Philadelphia's Cathedral Basilica of Saints Peter and Paul, said Wednesday that he sees the guidelines as a clarification Chaput was obliged to make.

NEWSLETTER: Get the day's top headlines from Times Editor Davan Maharaj >>

"If something's not clear, let's make it clear, even if it's unpopular," said the 75-year-old from Bucks County, just outside the city. "If you want to be a member of the Catholic Church, these are the guidelines, these are the rules, these are the laws." If people disagree, he said, "don't be a Catholic."

Mia Trotz, an 18-year-old college student from Philadelphia who was selling water ice outside the cathedral, said she didn't think the guidelines made sense.

"The whole part about being a good Catholic or Christian is helping people or being more accepting of people, but most of the time they're going against what they're telling you to do," she said of church leaders.

"I'm Catholic but I don't agree with everything they do or believe, so it's kind of hard to be Catholic sometimes."


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Yep, that is Catholic teaching. Get an annulment of your first marriage and you are free once again.

"What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder."

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I had no idea this was even a thing. Wow.

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Unless a religious 'decree' begins with the words the Bible says, you need to take it with a grain of salt.

There are two biblical reasons for remarrying: Death of a spouse and Adultery.

So long as either of those two requirements are met you don't need an 'annulment' of your previous marriage from the church or special permission to receive communion.


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This is another thing that Christians argue about.

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I was raised Lutheran-Missouri Synod, and not even my ultra-conservative pastor preached about this.

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Catholic teaching...

An annulment (formally known as a “declaration of nullity”) is a ruling that a particular marriage was null from the beginning—that is, something was gravely wrong at the time the wedding vows were made and it prevented a valid marriage from coming into existence.

Much more on the subject...

http://www.catholic.com/blog/jimmy-akin/...-know-and-share

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I attend a Roman Catholic church in my village on Sundays. The majority of the service gets conducted in English, but the homily gets told in the native language.

I even do scripture readings from time to time.

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Originally Posted By: MrTed
Unless a religious 'decree' begins with the words the Bible says, you need to take it with a grain of salt.

There are two biblical reasons for remarrying: Death of a spouse and Adultery.

So long as either of those two requirements are met you don't need an 'annulment' of your previous marriage from the church or special permission to receive communion.



Actually if you going by what the Bible says then there is no divorce unless one spouse was a non Christian. Adultery is not cause for divorce. It would be cause for execution. Therefore if your spouse is dead because they committed adultery then you are no longer married because they are dead.

If the church is unwilling to execute the punishment for adultery then IMHO they have no right to complain about a remarriage even though the bible says its wrong. Divorce in the Bible doesn't allow for remarriage but for a married couple to live separately and during that separation if one of them commits adultery then they are both guilty of adultery because of the sin they committed in denying each other sex.

So either forgive it and move on or execute the punishments of the law. God hates divorce. He flat out says it. Then Jesus came along and said render unto Caesar what is caesar's. If we view marriage as being under the authority of Caesar and not under God's then I theorize that it's not a sin to accept a civil divorce and remarry because it is legal. It's a terrible legal policy to be sure but then only sinfree solution I see after divorce is to abstain from sex the rest of your life because if you marry someone else according to Jesus then you are committing adultery. It's the same situation Gays are put into where they have sexual desire but they have to give up sex or live in sin.

I feel bad for divorced people who try to live according to the bible because there is no comfort to be found there.


You can't fix stupid but you can destroy ignorance. When you destroy ignorance you remove the justifications for evil. If you want to destroy evil then educate our people. Hate is a tool of the stupid to deal with what they can't understand.
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