DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... White Lives Matter!!!

11 officers shot, 3 dead. 2 snipers. No one in custody. Possible bomb planted. I hope they nail the pos who did this.

You can "play by societal rules", but I'm saying those rules suck. In a lot of respects, American society is awful. I'm not saying I'd rather live elsewhere, but Americans as a whole are self-centered people. We tend to look at how things directly effect us and along with that how things affect the groups we identify with. The problem is that we tend to put those groups in neat categories/black and white when there aren't straight lines to go by. We're all really one big group. Playing by the same rules is only going to lead to the same results. We as a people need to find a way to change the game.

You keep mentioning "YOUR" ancestors and your society,... your etc. If you trace things back far enough, we have common ancestors. You are the one who says he's going to play by those societal rules which I think makes it as much your society as mine. We need to find a way to move from me and mine vs you and your into we, us, and our. We need to become a society that is inclusive rather than divisive.

I'm really not your enemy, Swish. I think it's awful what has been happening. I just don't think your approach is going to fix the problem. If the past is any measure, it seems to only perpetuate the issue.

4 dead now, three still in surgery and 2 in critical. so far

The person of interest turned himself in. Another suspect was in a shootout and is now in custody. They are still looking for another suspect.

http://www.cbsnews.com/live/

Watch that.

And, he wasn't involved in the shooting.

I find it extremely odd that he would bring a rifle to an incident like this and he is not involved.

Geeze, sounded like a warzone in downtown Dallas. Heavy powered rifles getting used there.

They've got a black mercedes on I-35. They saw someone running to it with a camo duffel bag.

Texas allows long guns. How is it any different than others using their second amendment rights for protection?

I briefly looked over the texas law and it allows open carry of hand guns. I dont think a long gun is a hand gun

Regardless though, its not that he open carried, its that he brought a long gun to a mass murder.

Not getting sucked into this; please read Swish's and Clem's post. They just reeled off truth bombs.

I'll keep commenting on developments going on.
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Just for the record, If you assume I care what people write on this forum, you would be mistaken.

Listen to those two. They've lived what many of us haven't.

Sorry but it doesnt intrest me that much. If I want a realistic view of black life I will go talk to my neighbors.

Well, it's Texas. Open carry is allowed, big or small guns. Just because he's got the gun, doesn't mean he's out there using it. I'm sure quite a few in the protest had guns on them too, doesn't mean they used them or intended to use them.

I saw a report that the camo guy handed over the gun to an officer as the shooting started to ensure he wouldn't be implicated (leaving his ID with the officer) and then left as everyone else did.

This all just sucks.

I'm sorry Swish, I agree with you. The two most recent cop shootings appear to be wrongful use of lethal force but I can't get behind the notion that this is now a green light to throw away peaceful protests and that all cops should be lumped into the same grouping (if I can paraphrase you).

I don't have the answers. I want the violence to stop, on both sides. You may not believe me, but the hero of my lifetime has been Jackie Robinson. I wish he were alive to help us through this awful crapstorm.

@Swish and Clem - I don't want to downplay the officer involved shootings (murders as far as I'm concerned) or the struggle of minorities in America, but I need to talk about Dallas.

The degree of planning and coordination are making this look much more like a terrorist attack (domestic or not). At this point, 11 wounded and 4 of the 11 are dead. A female suspect from the vicinity of the garage in custody, two suspects from the mercedes chase (with camo duffle bag) in custody, negotiations (standoff) with a fourth suspect actively shooting at police in the parking garage. None of the suspects are being cooperative, the active shooter says "The end coming", "they or he will kill many more" and "they or he have/has planted bombs".

The Chief of Police and Mayor just spoke for the second time and the Chief said he was awaiting a plan to bring this to an end. He also cautioned that they do not know if all those involved have been discovered or exactly what scale of opposition they are facing.

This looks like a well planned attack and I just don't think it's related to the BLM Rally. I think the BLM Rally provided the opportunity. I won't be surprised if this gets much worse.

I forgot to mention that one civilian has been injured as well. I imagine the civilian is collateral damage.

Sad day for America.

In my family, I'm the #2 kid in my generation. The only other cousin who is older than I is Denise. We call her 'Neecy.' One of my favorite family pictures is of Neecy, age 3 and me, age two. We're on the porch of My Parents' first house: a tumbledown shanty on Atlantic St... underneath the city's water tower, and across the street from Std Oil Lima Refinery. I'm posing for the shot with a big cheese-eating grin on my face, and Neecy- well... Neecy is hugging me and kissing my cheek. That's her at the start of her life... and it's who she'll always be.

Denise was always the strong, quiet type. She loved a good laugh and some shenanigans as much as anyone else, but she was always grounded and solid. Always the one to warn us kids when we were about to cross the line. And, damn... always with the love and affection. Graduated 3rd in her HS class. Student Council VP. Finished her BA in 3 years. Her friends hail from all over the world, and they adore here almost as much as I do. Neecy learned from her parents responsibility, self-determination, character and leadership. She set the bar for all us kids to reach. She was the best 'big sister' I could ever have. Still is.

Just minutes after I posted, I went to facebook... and saw Neecy's latest post. I copy/paste it here for you to consider:



Her last words struck home with me... and perfectly state what I've been trying to say: "I don't want to be a hashtag."

____________________


Three or four posts later, I run across a post by my oldest nephew, Jeff2. Like Neecy, he's the eldest of HIS generation. Like Neecy, he's the quiet, solid type. Much more content to let his more ebullient siblings hog center stage, while he enjoys from the wings. Smart, funny, thoughtful- and a gentle soul. He's Swish's age, and the father of 3. Worked at Procter & Gamble since he got out of HS, and is as solid a citizen as you'd want for a neighbor. Here's what he wrote:



Does my nephew sound like anybody you know from these boards?
Does Neecy sound a little like her cousin Clem?
Do you see a theme emerging?


We are your friends.
We are your neighbors.
We are your co-workers.
We are Browns fans.
We. Are Americans.

...and we've always been at the epicenter of all of this, even when other 'groups' have come and gone.

_________

I know that 'developing stories' will probably snatch the limelight from the message I'm trying to send, but in a way, that's exactly my point. There will always be 'something new' to focus on, while the 'something old' remains the same. You'll probably never experience 'something borrowed' from the lives of your Black fellow citizens... so you'll never have to be concerned about being truly, mortally afraid of 'something blue.'

From the very start, this has been an unhappy, abusive marriage.

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And before you even think about trying it, let me stop you dead in your tracks. YOU never watched Your Mother weep tears of terror, as she dunked her husband's uniform 'starched whites' in a tub of black RIT dye, so he could be a less-visible sniper target at 3AM during a full-city race riot. YOU never went to bed at age 13, sleepless- wondering if you'd be called upon to be "The Man of the House, now-" at your Father's funeral. YOU never had to endure being nicknamed "Piggy" by kids that were once 'friends' from childhood, just because you Dad was a cop. YOU never had to accompany Your Father to a funeral of a cop who was slain on his watch.

So don't even try to go there. None of you.

My comments/observations are aimed at a social construct that allows 200+ years of stuff like this to happen with impunity... a social construct that encourages its citizens to excuse the behavior of people whose actions are indefensible.

That is very different from the grief I share with the families of the slain Dallas officers. These officers didn't kill Alton. They were doing their jobs in a completely different town. I can make that distinction in my mind with no trouble whatsoever.

I grew up in a Blue House. Tonight, even more of 'my family' died.


Damn it.
I should have stayed away longer. This is not healthy for my soul.


Of all the Dawgs at Talkers, there is only one person I know who is more qualified to speak out on a subject like this... and that's Devil. I lived it as a cop's son. He lives it every day. I'm certain that he will represent himself just fine when he deems that the time is right. At that time, I will listen to him with attention and respect. But make no mistake: NO other ethnic group suffers mortality/incarceration rates this high in police encounters... and that's what my posts have been specifically about.


Gatdammit, I'm sick of being surrounded by death.
Guns, guns, guns.

Sorry that you feel that way.
If I'd known that my words didn't matter, I could have saved an hour's worth of typing.

And here, I always thought that Dawgtalkers WAS a community... which would make me your neighbor.

I won't make that mistake with you again.

Hope I didn't waste too much of your time.

I am deeply troubled and saddened by the useless and callous taking of human lives that has occurred over the past couple of days.

The world is a sin filled, sick place, and more and more proof of this seems to emerge each and every day.

God bless the families of all of those who have been killed, comfort them, and grant them peace in their hearts. May God be with those who were injured, and place his healing touch upon them. I pray for all who are suffering due to such violence and hatred.

Violence is never the answer. Hatred is never the answer. It is a shame that some people seem to think that it is.

Dallas update:

5 now dead.

sad all the way around

It's odd that there is so much outrage when police kill black men, yet there is complete indifference or "I'll just ignore this" when mothers kill their children.

Clem, please don't stop writing! I for one enjoy reading your posts - I am lucky enough to have met you in person as well. You are always a voice of reason and articulate your thoughts extremely well. You and Swish (though he is a little more brash than you, lol) have really given great insight into a life most of us have never, nor will never, know.

This morning I was going back in my mind's eye and I had to go back many decades to remember the words.

They were familiar words but now, after much digging, they have come back to me, clear as a bell.

Those are the words of Prejudice and Hate. Of one sided views of the world we live in and what we considered to be "Truth". Words of how "they" are out to get us, kill us, and ruin everything we have built.

Yes, I remember those words as if it was just yesterday. The faces have changed, the colors have changed, but those words are still the same as they were in decades past.
I have heard them anew in these threads.

I will hug my best friend today and hope he doesn't belt me for doing so.

...are you talking about abortion? Or mothers going off the deep end?

Abortion and cops killing black individuals seem to be systemic while mothers killing their children is tragic, but not really a result of a perceived problem with our society. I think everyone agrees that killing one's children is wrong/horrible, but it is more of a mental health issue than a legal/societal issue. I could argue that the mother shouldn't "go crazy", but I don't think it's a choice she actively made.

Back to the lives mattering issue-The problem with "peaceful" protest is that they are often in actuality aggressive protests. Even when they are peaceful, they often don't present solutions for the problems they are railing against. Violence is not a good answer. Stacking wrong upon wrong doesn't make things better.

Perhaps starting programs where police and African Americans interact cooperatively can lead to better understanding and decreased violence. Picking different sides of an argument rarely leads anywhere but fighting. Maybe coming together is a possible answer.

Of course you are.

No I agree bro.

This looked like an actual operation.

Now if you wish to see solidarity, check out the Dallas hospital where the murdered officers were taken. They are standing vigil for their fallen officers. That, my friends, is solidarity and where we can learn about coming together.

Black women are 5x more likely to have an abortion than white women.. it's not a few police shootings that are controlling the black population.

Incredibly sad on the Dallas event. I just tuned into the story this morning. It's by far a crappy way to start the day reading the article outlining those events.

Whether someone's else's actions are right or wrong in a headline you get from the media and random, sporadic video clips and etc - doesn't give anyone the reason to do something like that.

My heart goes out to the fallen and their families.

I am still trying to gather my thoughts before I reply on this subject, but for now I will repeat my last facebook post.

Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass, because it never will. It's about learning how to dance in the rain while everybody is watching. Believe me I have very few reason's to dance according to most people but I am out here dancing my ass off. We all have to learn to dance in the rain. To love each other and to always be there for each other. If I can spread those feelings to those that I love (That means every one of you who reads this) then my life will have been worth something, and if you can all do the same then your lives will always mean something. Please do me a favor and love your family as well as your neigjhbors,, friends, and your enemies.

Can anyone explain to me why some folks are surprised that the murderer was troubled by BLM and went to these lengths?

I guess when a group chants "pigs in a blanket, fry them like bacon" why would anyone be surprised about this incident. Interviewees of this AM are seemingly surprised.

Not attempting to be rude or disrespectful, just struggling to make sense of all the surprise with regard to these murders.

None of the murders of the last four days make any sense.

The suspect said:
...he was upset about "black lives matter"
...he was upset about the recent police shooting
...he was upset at white people
...he wants to kill white people, especially white officers
...PD will eventually find IEDs
...he was not affiliated with any groups and that he did this alone

I saw the Minnesota footage late last night, I felt like I was going to throw up. You can hear it in the voice of the cop...fear, terror, and "OMG what just happened?" And it sounded like he was crying too. The sounds of the kid in the cop car were awful. Heck, even the governor of the state was calling it out yesterday. I'm just stunned. I don't see how that can be defended.

And I'm glad the Tennessee cop was kicked off the force for saying on Facebook that he would have shot 5 times in the same situation, as opposed to the 4 shots that were fired.

The Minnesota situation is truly tragic.

If the officer was frightened, just think of Mr. Castile's fear and the fear of the two passengers in the vehicle. Why did no one try to help him? Why did they simply stand by while critical seconds ticked away?

Officers need to stay off of social media with their ignorant thoughts and focus on how to be better.

Jist thinking out loud and in words as I struggle to process these horrific events that have traumatized our family. We have friends in Dallas. It is a nightmare.

j/c

I've waded a bit through this thread and I just want to deposit these thoughts/observations of recent events;

* All lives are not equal. Never has, suspect never will. From Hillary to me, to Clem, to Swish, to Arch to whome ever on the board, to the guys who got shot. Some people get away with "murder" others don't.

* White kid goes missing=national news; black kid goes missing=barely makes the local evening news

* Cops kill black man=national outrage; blacks kill black men on a daily basis=nothing . . . no outrage from ANYONE blacks included. And I think that's part of our problem. Lives don't matter unless we deem it so.

* 8 years of a black mans' presidency and we seem to be heading to worse race relations, go figure.

* Some people want a discussion on race relations but that requires a dialog. However, what we get is a monologue and a "sit down, shut up and listen" to me mentality. To have a real dialog means that whites are going to say things blacks won't like, it isn't racism, just life as they see it. Same with blacks, they will say things whites don't like but it isn't racism, just life as they see it. When will calmer heads prevail??

* My wife works in a prison. There are guys there my age (45) who have been in PRISON/JAIL 5,6,7,8 times. WTF?

* If we're going to move in a more positive direction we need less repeat offenders. We need more dialog, we need less discriminatory outrage and be more consistent on the preservation and sanctity of a human life.


I don't know how these cops are gonna weasel their way out of the shooting of these black men.
I fear for my wife's safety, she loves her job (counselor) but I am really nervous this morning.....


Thank you Swish and Clem. And thanks to everyone else on this board who are trying to have a civil if not heated at times, discussion.

Go figure?

The current negative race issues show a direct resentment that the majority of U.S voters elected a black president. From day one many American's and some posters here have never excepted Obama as their president and they never will. Many are in Congress and politics. Many are our relatives, friends, teachers and doctors. Race relations bad or good are taught and instilled in us at a young age.