DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum I’m a Skins fan who has watched RG3 for 4 years & analyzed the film. Here’s what you can expect.

Of course he agrees with those parts of the article!

The fact that we got him for next to nothing, minimal risk or harm to us, is one of the few things that keeps my composure in check when I pass thoughts about us signing him an him being here.

'Serious time' was the weight of my thought. I used "serious" because in such a short blurb I'd have preferred less humor. I was fine with what he said. He has every right to his opinion which carries more value than most. He's at the top of any credible list. He's always been knowledgeable and fair. I was just wishing he'd have given the Browns more time or less joking in the short podcast.

It's OK if someone speculates.

As long as those speculations are negative.

Its interesting.

I remember when Greg used to drool over Griffin, even had him ahead of Luck iirc. So here's Greg; hasn't watched a practice or even spoken to Hugh.

But by 'reading between the lines' Greg is saying that Hugh is saying that RGIII can't play? Okay.

Funny how Mary K, who has been to practices and spoken to coaches; writes that Hugh and Pep are all in of Robert.

Greg's conclusion, despite not having watched a practice or spoken to Hugh, is that Griffin is going to have "apparently" play better.

Well Robert is now with the Browns.
And hear that he can't throw the passes he needs to throw for Cleveland.
You can only hope he has overcome his problems.
But would not be surprising if he is not under center for week 1 or the preseason for that matter.

It's not even training camp yet.

Geesh.

Let's at least wait for the 1st session, of the 1st day of training camp before we bury the guy, and decide that he'll be nothing but a failure here.

I don't know if he'll be able to recapture his rookie magic or not ..... but deciding that the guy has failed in early July is complete folly.

Correction: he's already failed to this point, he is that guy; deciding that he will not be the same guy this time around and that Hue can save him and his career is what needs patience.

Robert Griffin III and the Cleveland Browns: a match of hard-luck misfits

Maybe in a way Cleveland and Robert Griffin III were made for each other. The city has never had much luck with their football team and Griffin didn’t have any other suitors when Washington released him last winter. Sometimes the best opportunities are those where hope comes in limited quantities.

The NFL never knew what to do with the second pick in the 2012 draft once a defensive lineman named Haloti Ngata fell on his leg that fall, keeping RG III from being a dazzling runner again. Unable to do what he did best and run, the rookie of the year was suddenly a failure in everybody’s eyes. He laughed too much. He laughed at the wrong time. He was too honest. He wasn’t honest enough. He was too compliant. He was too un-coachable. He was too smart. He was too dumb. His hair was wrong. Now, the coach who wanted Griffin so much that he traded three first-round picks to get him says his exuberance was a lie and that he didn’t want Griffin at all.


The Cleveland Browns have 99 problems. A quarterback is just one
Read more
For a city desperate for its football resurrection story the best man to write that tale might the quarterback who rose to the top and then washed to the bottom in less than four years. It’s not like someone better will be walking through the Browns’ front door. All everyone needs to do is stop demanding that Griffin fit into some predetermined box and embrace the fact he is different than other quarterbacks and realize there is nothing wrong with that.

He became news again this week because he’s been throwing footballs over the fence at the Browns practice facility. Cleveland’s new coach Hue Jackson has been stressing the need to abandon broken plays by throwing the ball away. Rather than toss the ball to the sideline, Griffin has emphasized his comprehension of Jackson’s mandate by heaving the ball over the two-story chain-link fence that separates practice field from neighborhood.

The throws very much fit his kind of humor, a carefree act in the tedium of football practice, yet they have caused eyes to roll and tongues to cluck because NFL quarterbacks aren’t supposed to throw footballs over the fence. There is nothing wrong with him doing this, of course, the Browns are valued at $1.5bn, they can afford to lose a few footballs when the neighbors don’t throw them back. But other NFL quarterbacks don’t throw balls over the fence on broken plays. And since other quarterbacks don’t throw balls over fences at practice, the fact Griffin does has apparently made him a problem again.

Immediately came the tired old cries about RG III. He’s a showoff. He’s selfish. He’s obsessed with drawing attention to himself. His crime was throwing footballs over a fence during team drills but suddenly it has become the prime example of why he can’t lead a team. Even his explanation for the throws “you know just being coachable”, is being parsed into a demonstration of the kind of passive-aggressiveness that seemed to infuriate many in Washington.

All because he threw some footballs over a fence during minicamp.

Who knows if Griffin’s knees are strong enough to keep him in the NFL? His transition from college-style runner to pocket passer has been a rocky one. The proper footwork for such and adjustment has not come naturally. Physically, he might not be a professional starter, but the idea that he is immature or self-centered to lead a team is ridiculous. Nobody complained about his behavior when he was winning in Washington. Criticism came only after his knee splintered on national television.

He is a sensitive man, which is what everybody in Washington struggled to handle. Between his childhood with doting, military parents and coaches at Baylor – just an hour from his home – he was never properly prepared for the duplicitous world of the NFL, where coaches and players worry about protecting their own jobs than helping others. He was too innocent for Mike Shanahan, who continues to invent new narratives to humiliate him.

Even now, after Washington rejected him, Griffin retains an enthusiastic innocence that is both charming and off-putting for an NFL that has a preset impression of what a quarterback should be like. When asked this week if he has changed, he smiled and then shook his head.

“I feel like you can’t let life happen and change who you are,” he said. “It can grow you as an individual, you know adversity is an opportunity for your character to be tested but you can’t let it change who you are. I believe people are genuinely good, maybe I’m a fool, I don’t know. But I genuinely believe people are good until they prove you wrong.”

Now he is here, in Cleveland, with an organization that leads the league in reinvention. The Browns have just emerged from two ruined years as the lead story on TMZ, the breaking news alerts whooping every time outgoing quarterback Johnny Manziel was spotted in Vegas or found handcuffs wrapped around his wrists. Every start around the Browns has crashed in disaster. Jackson is their sixth head coach in nine years and there’s no sense he lasts more than a season or two if he doesn’t fix things fast.

Jackson likes building up young quarterbacks. He likes identifying flaws and then fixing them. More importantly, he is honest. He won’t mislead Griffin or stab him in the back.

He must see something that can be saved in RG III. Otherwise, why would a new coach in his second – and maybe last – attempt at being a head coach take a shot on Griffin when the Browns could have held the second pick in the draft and take North Dakota State’s Carson Wentz. Why is he willing to stake his reputation on Griffin unless he is sure he can save RG III?

“Listen, he’s improved we’ve all seen that,” Jackson said Thursday at the end of the Browns veteran minicamp. “There’s another step.”

Griffin is too talented for most to believe his career is over. Those few weeks when he led Washington to an NFC East championship say he has the ability to be very good again. He just needs a coach and a team willing to believe.

Cleveland turned out to be that team. The Browns and Jackson were probably his only option. And together they try to mend his game back together. This should be the perfect match: the broken quarterback spit out of Washington and the city that has long been a punch line desperate for their football team to win again.

They each might be the best chance the other is going to get.

From a link on the page the Terrell Watson story was on

More accurately, he had exceptional success, followed by failure. To focus on the reality of his failure while not acknowledging that the success ever took place does not tell the complete story. No argument that patience will be mandatory if he will ever be able to approach that success again.

The throws very much fit his kind of humor, a carefree act in the tedium of football practice, yet they have caused eyes to roll and tongues to cluck because NFL quarterbacks aren’t supposed to throw footballs over the fence.

From the article.
I don't recall hearing/reading anything about wagged tongues and rolled eyes...

During minicamp there were several articles from more than a few different media outlets that suggested that throwing those balls away, over that high fence, was an act of passive aggression displaying Griffin's displeasure with Jackson's expectation to not take negative plays. Additionally there were several articles that characterized his spinning the football after a slide as an act of arrogance and a confirmation that his professed humility is false.

I won't be finding any of these articles for those who challenge my characterization of their conclusions. I feel no compunction to do so. Either take what I say on its own merit or do not. That's each reader's choice.

I will take your word for it. I don't think you are a guy who lies.

I will say that I found the article annoying. Everyone in the world is wrong and RGIII is a victim. Gag!

Regarding throwing the ball over the fence. I don't like it. Wouldn't such throws result in intentional grounding calls? Why not work on doing what you should do during the game?

No intentional grounding if he's out of the pocket and it makes it past the line of scrimmage.

Is it really about throwing it over the fence or is it about being decisive? Lots of drills don't directly relate to what one does on the field, like receivers catching smaller objects from the JUGS. When it is time to throw the ball away, throw it all the way away. If he thinks being able to remember throwing a ball over a fence will help him take better care of the ball, more power to him.

LOL..........I know the rules.

Nice effort.. But when the Browns traded T Rich... Browns fan told Colts fans We are pissed... you got a deal.

See how that turned out......

Media did make a story out of Griffin throwing the ball away and sliding.
The very idea that a QB throwing the ball away and sliding in practice become a story is a glimpse into how Griffin was covered/scrutinized by both mainstream and local media.

How many times have we seen QBs launch the ball into the sidelines or stands throwing the ball away?
But, when Griffin does it in practice its a story.

But stuff like this is what I think the article was referring to:

I recall reading some of the articles i.e. the slides and throwing the ball into someone's back yard, but I didn't get the impression a big deal was being made of it, even by the writers.
I thought it was more of an indication that Griffin III was having a little fun.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jun/10/robert-griffin-iii-cleveland-browns-minicamp

Good article w/ a different then usual slant. Rare to read an article sympathetic toward Griffin. And not only sympathetic but the author notices and points out Mike Shanahan's inaccuracies in his comments about Griffin and how often he makes them. (How many ex-HC do you see dishing dirt about players?)

But, I do think he's wrong here:

Right now if you go by the media perception it seems more people think his career is over then not.


Either way, Griffin will have to get it done in games.

It depends on what you mean by 'big deal'. For me, even saying that you read some articles about Griffin throwing the ball away and sliding is making a bigger deal then it warranted.

Hearing about any QB throwing the ball away and sliding at all during OTAs or training camp imo should be and is a non-story.

Oh, I get it now. If he says something negative, he is a bozo. If says something positive, he is exactly right.

I love logical thinking.

Dude can't hit the broad side of a barn .. Other than that .. WOOOHOOO ..

Ya .. I know .. He has a high completion % ..

STATS ARE FOR ...... Come on boys .. Someone help me out here, I'm getting old, the memories fading ..

IF he wins the starting job out of the gate .. We can talk after 8 - 10 starts .. If he doesn't start til Josh gets hurt then all we'll have is that sample size ..

I watched with my eyes .. HES VERY INNACURATE ..

As usual on time will tell and this will play out .. Talk to u after 8 - 10 starts ...

One other thing .. I keep reading about Shanny this, Shanny that ..

Gruden is the one that derailed him in Washington, not Shanny ..

I agree with tabber that it's a new start and he checked his ego at the door ... But let's not forget that in a previous life he got a fresh start with Gruden and got in his dog house in a NY second ..

So please let's tell the ENTIRE HISTORY and not a revisionist version of it ..

Shanny hurt RG3 and has plenty of blame to shoulder for his part .. BUT THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH GRUDEN ... RG3 has to own that one also ..

Ok .. C u after 8 - 10 starts ..

Crap .. I've all ready ruined any credibility I may have had .. *L* ..

And RG3 is stepping into a BRUTAL situation ...

- GREEN AS HELL RECIEVERS .. Unless Gordon comes back were going to have one green ass recieveing corps .. And due to that youth it wil more than likely be a bottom feeding group once again ..

- questionable OL ..

- everyone will be learning a new system ..

- guess that's about it ..

OK .. My plan is to C u in 8 - 10 starts .. But don't rule out me being back in that many seconds ..

I think a lot of people want to blame other people for RGIII's failures, but he fell out of favor w/two different coaching staffs. Gruden is known as a super-positive coach and he grew tired of RGIII real quick.

A lot of people? (And his "failure" is a presupposition that isn't an accurate reflection of Griffin's production.) I don't see many people that blaming other people for Griffin's "failures". If you look at the media coverage and media perception surrounding Griffin its all negative and with the help of Mike Shanahan all the blame is laid solely at his feet. I'm curious where your perception of 'a lot of people want to blame other people'.

And Griffin "falling out of favor" is broad simplification of what happened. But, even if we went with that characterization of events does him falling out of favor make him a bad QB? His 2 years w/ Shanahan were good.

With Gruden it was obvious to anyone close to the situation that early on in the process Griffin wasn't his guy. People rarely go back and look at what actually happened with Gruden but if you do go back and look at the games and his production in those games very few people would think his play warranted a benching or the rhetoric that followed.

I'm so tired of discussing non-football perception when it comes to Griffin. I'm excited for the games.

But, the blame for Griffin falling from franchise QB to castoff is a shared blame by both the player and the organization.

It is anyone's right to accept/discard what the sports media writes. But, imo the way Griffin was covered and characterized was atypical and clearly agenda driven. So the media perception of the player imho paints an inaccurate picture of him as a player. And, apparently its a characterization that Hugh doesn't subscribe to.

Did he get a fresh start? Sean McVay the OC was there with both regimes Shanny and Jay. The Gruden's and the Shanahan's are close friends, who have coached on each others staffs.

Here is warning from Jon that proved prophetic:
http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/3208/gruden-weighs-in-on-rg-iii-shanahans



And if you look at how quickly Griffin was benched and his level of production prior to his benching it was a bizarrely quick hook for a QB that a new HC is supposed to develop.

So you are right...lets not tell a revisionist history.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Even when there isn't a shred of evidence to back it up.

You know there are different sites that record QB accuracy to far more detail and accuracy then mere completion percentage.
I've posted them before from PFF and Football Outsider's Cian Fahey and if there is one thing about Griffin that is shown by advanced stats is his accuracy.

I've literally watched every throw he's made in every NFL game (some in college too) and his accuracy jumps off the page to me. There is a lot someone can question about Griffin's game/level of development:

-experience and development in a rhythm drop back passing game
-decision making
-reading defenses
-awareness of when/where to slide
-straight line running and relative lack of 'moves' to juke/avoid tacklers
-holding the ball too long

But, saying that Griffin is inaccurate and lol can't hit the broadside of a barn makes me think you really haven't watched him play at all.

But to each their own.

Within about 60 days, the answer to RGIII will be revealed. We'll know pretty soon if we have a winner or loser or just someone that can hold down the fort until we find that right guy.

Yeah I agree. We'll see very soon IMO. He's not in the position where he's going to rapidly improve each week during the season.

We'll more likely know in about 18 months. If we expect to have the answer in 60 days, we'll probably get it wrong, and might be asking the wrong question all together.

I don't think accuracy is RG3's issue. He can throw it where he wants it to go. Now throwing it to the right place is a different issue, and one that is not solely dependant on him. Comfort and chemistry are a big part of a QB's success. RG3 didn't have that in Washington after a moderate injury was ignored and became a catastrophic injury. Will he stay healthy and have time to develop comfort and chemistry here? I don't know, but he has great physical tools, and should finally be fully recovered from his major injury.

There is much truth in what you say, but still, I think we can have a very good idea if he's NOT going to make it.

TBH, I figured McCown would've been traded way prior to this point in the season. The fact that this staff has ousted the "older" players already, there likely would be a decent demand for Josh by a few teams and etc etc - maybe hints to the distrust the staff has in RGIII.

I'm still under the impression that McCown will be opening day starter. Even through training camp where the pads and etc will make things a lil more heated in terms of competition.

One thing that Grimm said though, about him being fully healed from injury, is driven home by the almighty Tony Grossi. He said in one of his articles, RGIII is moving around great and definitely appears healthy.

He'll have a solid and legit opportunity, we'll see what comes of it here. For me, yeah, like I said above - preparing for a season opener with Josh behind center.

I'm really just hoping to see progression rather than the regression that I've been seeing recently.

It seems that for the most part players have gotten worse the longer they've been in Cleveland, QBs in particular. Last year, it was pretty much everyone.

The culture and coaching seem to be better this year. I was listening to an interview on the official Browns site and one thing that stood out to me was Orchard talking about Hue getting on everybody, Offense and Defense, constantly about getting better. And he does it in a constructive way.

Pet seemed to focus solely on Defense his first year, then solely on Offense his second year. We didn't seem to have a real sense of unity/team. Hue seems to be a better manager of the whole team which is really the HC's job.

I also like how this staff seems to have a focus on teachers, where last season they seemed more... implementers. We seemed to be trying to fit everyone into the scheme all the time, rather than getting the individual players better. There seems to be a better balance so far this offseason, but only time will really tell. I'm thinking of the Justin Gilbert stance/technique change type stuff. We spent too much time on specifics rather than ensuring good basics which would then allow us to implement those specifics.

That happens when the coaches loose the locker room. The players shut down and watch the heads roll later.

Poor, poor RGIII. The guy is a victim. Everyone was out to get him and wanted him to fail.

This type of presumption is fine for fans. I think its a disservice for the team. If Griffin's performance is uneven, some good, some equally not so good, its in the best interest of the team to make every effort to work through the problems instead of doing what Cleveland always does. I think we can all agree that he will experience some adversity. Its best for the team to figure out if he can correct those problems that are directly attributable to his own play. Having a QB on a short leash only ends in a self fulfilling prophesy.

Yeah, that's pretty much verbatim what I wrote...or is it?