DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum I’m a Skins fan who has watched RG3 for 4 years & analyzed the film. Here’s what you can expect.

I guess I just don't understand the rationale above. I try to stay out of the reading between the lines and interpreting hints.

Early on in the process it seemed clear that Hugh wanted Griffin. And its been reaffirmed by the local beat guys. Mary K, for example recently wrote an article reaffirming that Hugh and Pep are 'all in' on Griffin.


I think Griffin is being given a legit opportunity and Hugh's hallmark is building an offense tailored to a player's strengths. Griffin has rare physical skillset that in his rookie year was more productive then any season McCown has had.

It wouldn't make any sense, to me, to sign Griffin then start McCown you know? If they start McCown then it doesn't make sense to bother with Griffin at all.

I just read this article on Football Outsiders about Tyrod Taylor and I wouldn't be surprised if an offense based around Griffin skillset is similar.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/film-room/2016/film-room-tyrod-taylor

They're are probably all in on RGIII, but the ole phrase of you just can't make chicken salad outta chicken crap is likely applicable. They could've traded McCown and let's be real, probably got something decent outta it. But, we're heading into training camp with two veterans now, one of them being opposite of their youth movement flow they made clear about.

Idk, I'm not at practices, a GM, a Qb evaluator or anything but just a fan of football. It's all opinion.

So you think Hugh/Pep are all in on player they think can't play?

Did you look at the Tyrod Taylor article?

We got RGIII for a song and we wouldn't have gotten chicken crap for McCown. McCown is still on contract for another two seasons. No team was going to pick that up. But yeah we could have kept the young JM as the youth option since nobody else was out there to grab up.

It seems you fail to realize that they are all in on RG3's "potential", not what he's actually done for the past few years.

When you sign a QB, especially one who hasn't been really productive for the last three years, you're signing him for what you hope you can develop him into. That doesn't mean he will actually develop into what you hope he will. His salary speaks volumes here. It's no more than back up money. RG3 is an experiment and his contract doesn't tie the team into him. That's how you handle business when you sign a guy on hope.

For anyone to believe just because they signed him that makes him the automatic starter is fooling themselves. He's a reclamation project.

Sure, but one too loaded with possibilities/potential for us to ignore.

I actually like the signing considering the available options. I believe they signed him at a reasonable price to a reasonable contract.

I'm certainly not predicting he will fail, yet at the same time I fully realize that with RG3, nothing is a given either. I see and saw nothing wrong with taking a shot with him.

Not sure what this means*shrugs*

The paid Griffin market value, heck some would say they paid Griffin more then he warranted. But Griffin's compensation isn't the issue. The risk with Griffin is the time and energy the organization commits by giving him an opportunity to be the QB. Especially considering they had the No.2 overall pick and didn't draft another QB until late in the 3rd round.

It would be so much easier to have discussions with people/me based on what is actually written rather then assumptions.

Griffin is going to be the starter because he's the most talented QB on the roster, the staff (HC/OC/QB coach) believe in him and are going to design an offense that is built around him.

It might work out or it might fail. Only time will tell.

I'm not sure that this article has been posted previously. I've been reluctant to post it because I do feel there are several claims about RG3 that are baggage from his time in Washington. There are several remarks about his character and temperament that the writer, in my estimation, attempts to frame as current issues that have not been substantiated as concerns since coming to Cleveland. In spite of that, there is valid reasoning about why he will have every opportunity to be the Brown's starter.

Read and make your own judgements.

That writer ain't got no grammar.

A few thoughts on RGIII:

--We got him cheap. It was a good move by the FO to bring him in.

--He reportedly was not pursued by the other 31 teams. I think that is revealing in a troublesome sort of way. There are a few teams w/real QB issues.

--I haven't heard of the attitude issues since he came to Cleveland.

--He can't read defenses. That is my biggest concern w/him.

--The Browns probably want him to start.

--Blaming two coaching staffs and the organization for his failures in Washington is the kind of stuff that makes it harder for me like the guy. That may not be fair, but people are talking out of their behinds when they blame the people around him for his issues and lack of success. It's time for he and his supporters to stop blaming others, shut-up, and play football.

Since RG3 has either been diffusive or silent about his time in Washington statements made by others can be the only remarks that can be effecting your support for him.

That's true for me as well. The difference? I really want him to succeed because of all the criticism he's getting.

I said "likely", of course they feel there's a chance to evolve him, but otherwise there's also a chance to win the powerball. It's just a slim one lol.

And no, I didn't read that particular article.

I don't know, when teams are discussing the possibility of Mark Sanchez starting... then like I said, I'm sure there'd be a demand for him. He plays the starter/mentor role...

DLB...If you are talking McCown, I agree.

For now, he holds enough interest by our staff to not give him up. They want to see what happens in camp. If RGIII looks good enough, McCown will be a solid trading chip. If not, Josh is the starter.

Remember, when Josh played, QB wasn't the problem with this team.

I want him to succeed, too.

I'm just sick of all the excuses. The coaching staff and organization did NOT want him to fail. That is such an ignorant concept.

The guy threw teammates under the bus. He went behind his coaches' backs and complained to the owner. He used the media to say how he was unfairly treated.

I think it's time for his excusers to shut the hell up and let the guy prove it on the field rather than blaming others for his misfortunes.

I'm sorry to be a liar and be back so soon .. But I just gotta ask .. I just gotta make sure I understand this ..

The rat and Gruden were such good friends that Gruden was willing to bench RG3 even though he gave Gruden the best chance of winning ... WOW ... A 1st time head coach more worried about helping his good bud not look bad by resurrecting RG3's career then about LOSING HIS JOB ...

WOW ... Really ... Sometimes things are better left un-said and if this doesn't qualify as one of them I'm not sure what does .. If u wanna take a mulligan on that one .. Go ahead .. I'm not watching ..

PS. Kirk Cousins ABSOLUTELY STUNK in his starts when he replaced RG3 .. So the fact that Gruden went to Cousins ALMOST IMMEDEDIALY tells U just how bad RG3 was ....

U got one hell of a reach there Ed .. One hell of a reach ...

I posted facts. How you spin, twist and contort them is up to you.

Ask me something about what I actually said, not something that you invent from what I said.

Ed .. U need to help me here .. I'm ASSuming that last remark was meant for me .. Not up on board tech so the fact there's someone else's name in the reply to spot it confused my tiny brain for a sec .. Kinda like your post if it was directed at me ..

I made up my conclusion form thin air?? .. Ummm .. OK .. Please help my TINY BRAIN ..

I say he got a FRESH start with the Gruden hire ..

U say HE DIDN'T and u state two reasons ..

1. McVay stood .. U mention him as OC .. VERY DECIEVING .. What was he on the rat's staff?
2. Gruden's friendship with the Rat ..

ITS RIGHT THERE IN BLACK AND WHITE ... Your words!!

If I'm wrong PLEASE explain to me in detail what my tiny brain DOESN'T GET ..

So please tell me why u mentioned the close friendship of Gruden/ the rat if u weren't saying the rat INFLUENCED GRUDEN in a NEGATIVE WAY ..

And remember after STATING THIER FRIENDSHIP U then went and said that RG3 had STATS that didn't MERIT him being BENCHED .. So your saying that GRUDEN LET OUTSIDE INFLUENES guide his decision because the STATS that RG3 put up certainly didn't merit a QUICK HOOK ..

And the one VALID outside influence u mentioned was the RATS/GRUDEN'S friendship ... And even if the McVie influence (NO HEAD COACH IS GOING TO LET HIS ASST. INFLUENCE his decision on his QB .. The OC may VALIDATE what the HC believes off what he's SEEN SINCE HES BEEN IN THE BLDG!)

Anyhow .. Even if McVie had SUMPTIN to do with it .. WHY DID U MENTION THE FRIENDSHIP WITH THE RAT if it had NO INFLUENCE on GRUDEN'S decision to bench him ..

And REALLY .. U mentioned something Jon Gruden said BEFORE THE RAT WAS FORED and he had no idea his bro would become the HC as proof that they were in cahoots to ruin Mr. Accurates career ...

PS. The rat has had a wee bit of success with QB'S throughout his career .. No? ..

Oooops .. There goes my small brain getting off track ..

Answer one simple question please .. My small brain needs help ..

WHY DID U MENTION THE RATS/GRUDENS FRIENDSHIP? ...

I'm pretty sure I know what your response will be .. And like any good small brain chess player I'm ready for it ..

Ahhhh ... My small brain sees ... Quick reply replies to the thread originator ..

Ed - if u could do me a favor if u ever quick reply to me again .. Lead with Diam - .... Or SB - ... Short for small brain .. So I know it's intended for me ..

Thanks Ed .. Enjoy your Sunday bud ..

Totally agree. I don't know if there are many of those "excusers" around here, but yep, he needs to show up and put up. What did or didn't happen in the past doesn't really matter anymore.

Indeed! Eloquently said, mac...

Don't judge people on their past? So, if a guy rapes little kids, we should just let him go because it is unfair to judge him by his past?

No doubt a person has a past. My feeling is if you bring in a player who has a checkered past, you do need to provide him a clean slate. It makes no sense to me to bring in a guy like that, then keep it hanging over his head.

No mac, I didn't.

It's ludicrous to not view someone's past when evaluating their performance or when making predictions about how they will play in the future.

Let me try this one-----------we should expect Erving to play as well as Joe Thomas this year because it is unfair to judge a player by how they played in the past, right?

You can believe what you want, mac.

My point is that I don't want you--or anyone else--to scoff at me for using a player's past performance to help speculate on how he will play in the future.

j/c:


Top 60 Quarterbacks For 2016

RANK, PLAYER TEAM BYE

1. Cam Newton CAR 7
2. Aaron Rodgers GB 4
3. Russell Wilson SEA 5
4. Andrew Luck IND 10
5. Drew Brees NO 5
6. Ben Roethlisberger PIT 8
7. Carson Palmer ARI 9
8. Tom Brady NE 9
9. Eli Manning NYG 8
10. Blake Bortles JAC 5
11. Philip Rivers SD 11
12. Tyrod Taylor BUF 10
13. Tony Romo DAL 7
14. Kirk Cousins WAS 9
15. Derek Carr OAK 10
16. Marcus Mariota TEN 13
17. Matthew Stafford DET 10
18. Andy Dalton CIN 9
19. Jameis Winston TB 6
20. Ryan Tannehill MIA 8
21. Matt Ryan ATL 11
22. Brock Osweiler HOU 9
23. Joe Flacco BAL 8
24. Ryan Fitzpatrick FA --
25. Jay Cutler CHI 9
26. Teddy Bridgewater MIN 6
27. Alex Smith KC 5
28. Jared Goff LA 8
29. Colin Kaepernick SF 8
30. Sam Bradford PHI 4
31. Robert Griffin CLE 13
32. Paxton Lynch DEN 11
33. Geno Smith NYJ 11
34. Jimmy Garoppolo NE 9
35. Mark Sanchez DEN 11
36. Carson Wentz PHI 4
37. Case Keenum LA 8
38. Blaine Gabbert SF 8
39. Josh McCown CLE 13
40. Brian Hoyer CHI 9
41. Christian Hackenberg NYJ 11
42. Chase Daniel PHI 4
43. AJ McCarron CIN 9
44. Mike Glennon TB 6
45. Cody Kessler CLE 13
46. Bruce Gradkowski PIT 8
47. Drew Stanton ARI 9
48. Kellen Moore DAL 7
49. Jeff Driskel SF 8
50. Jacoby Brissett NE 9
51. Matt Schaub ATL 11
52. EJ Manuel BUF 10
53. Cardale Jones BUF 10
54. Scott Tolzien IND 10
55. Dak Prescott DAL 7
56. Connor Cook OAK 10
57. Matt McGloin OAK 10
58. Chad Henne JAC 5
59. Brett Hundley GB 4
60. Matt Moore MIA 8

http://espn.go.com/fantasy/football/stor...ks-quarterbacks

Vers, you played. What was the worst injury you ever saw or experienced? How long did it take you or that individual to get back to full strength?

The last time RG3 was fully healthy for a calendar year was leading up and into his rookie year. Every season since he's dealt with injuries in some way, shape, or form. On the NFL stage, do you really expect injured players to be able to compete at a high level?

You can look at the past, but not all of the circumstances are the same. Will he stay healthy? Will he be productive? I don't know, but he has shown that, when healthy, he can be productive.

j/c

for me, the worst part of an injury was mental. in other words, when I was able to return my mind would keep my body hesitant and unsure. It would always take me a while to get back to 100% comfortable.

These are rankings for Fantasy Football based on a particular point system.

I know they are. I'm the one who posted it.

Is the take away to steer clear of RGIII in any upcoming fantasy football drafts?

The takeaway is that it is interesting to see which teams are the most unsettled at qb. You can ascertain that information by looking at which teams have the qbs ranked closest together, such as Denver, Cleveland, the Jets, and Philly. Another takeaway is to look at which qbs are expected to more--or less--productive than other qbs.

You can scoff at fantasy football stats and/or get all haughty about it, but throwing for TDs and yards are usually good things, while throwing picks and fumbling the ball are not good things.

Btw.........I posted another article that had nothing to do w/FF, and RGIII was ranked 32nd and the lists were very similar. It's not a huge leap to see why guys like Cam, Rodgers, and Wilson are ranked so high on that list and why guys like Sanchez, Bradford, and Gino Smith are not.

Can't get too worried about what they say in FF as it relates to IRL

That's probably because you don't understand how it works.

I still try to avoid bargains for the sake of bargains, like clearance sales on parachutes. I hope RG3 pans out, but JM may well start. Hopefully we feel we got value or at least our money's worth for the new QB vet. Fingers crossed.

Which comes back to a point I've tried to make. "Our moneys worth" is something that causes you to look at what they paid. They are paying RG3 back up money. There wasn't a bidding war for his services. He did not command starter money.

So our hopes should actually be that we got more than our moneys worth.