DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... GOP convention in Cleveland

But you see what Im getting at. It wont work because the culture here is completely different. Bernie failed because his tax plan was obsene. You yourself said you wouldnt vote for him because of his taxes. It just wont fly in this country. Trying to compare usa to europe doesnt work. Its not remotely the same.

@Eve, not arch. Must have hit the reply button.

People would be saving a ton of money despite the taxes. The benefits themselves of being able to buy all of the nation's equipment in just massive amounts of bulk is estimated to cut down health care costs by well over 30% itself.

That said, of course their will be fat, it'll be the U.S. citizens' jobs to find it and eliminate it.

The interesting thing is that those countries considered 'nasty socialist' do not have an effective tax rate much higher than America. The U.S. has a couple big disadvantages though in having a higher percent of people who, how do you say it... do not contribute much to society. We also foot most of the bill for military spending. That is an enormous expense in and of itself.

Like I said, socialism is more on a sliding scale. Think of it more along the lines of, can you realistically get rich? Certainly in the U.S., high earners generally will pay something like 40-50% of their income directly to various levels of government, but you can still get rich through your own hard work and ingenuity. In many countries the answer to that would be a resounding no, not without having a direct hand in massive crime or government corruption or something along those lines. High earners in those socialist European countries are generally not paying a whole lot more than what a high earner would pay in California although it depends what country we're talking about.

Healthcare costs wont go down until big pharma and ins companies are regulated.

But they are in bed with politicians.

So it will never happen.

Everyone is in bed with politics. It's a nasty orgy that needs to end. Big Pharma is certainly one of the worst ones.

im with you, and i've made that argument already about taxes and bernie's ridiculous nonsense.

I'm simply making the point to Day that chalking everything up to "social programs gotta go" is a bit ignorant.

And to Haus that just because it benefits people doesn't mean it's a bad entitlement thing.

I just think about all those middle/upper class people that lost almost everything when the recession hit. they weren't broke. they weren't poor.

but if it wasn't for these socialist programs, a lot of these families would/still be on the streets.

you're not gonna get an argument from me when it comes to getting rid of the people that abuse the system.

but the reality is that the majority do not. it's been debunked. sometimes being the best country isn't about how you take care of the rich; it's how well the people in poverty or hit rock bottom are treated.

i think we can do better, but i like the programs we have. hell, we don't even need MORE programs. we should just focus on making the ones we have more efficient.

I'm not advocating Socialism, but Denmark (252), Norway (321), Iceland (351), and Sweden (311) all rank pretty highly on that list.

It's not a liberal or conservative thing Eve. It's a simple matter that both speeches have passages that are almost identical.

Of course, a Democrat is going to try and draw attention to it. Not sure of the value of that, but you know it's going to happen.

If the roles were reversed, any bets on how republicans would react? I'd say the exact same way.

So calling people out for their beliefs is really and truly a waste of time, don't you think?

i dont think anyone is saying that social programs need to go. Its just the extra waste in running/managing them. Like the 500$ hammer, or too many layers of mgmt, bad contractor agreements, or other wasteful practices. It needs to become lean and mean like a proper business would. The problem with the government is that there is no threat of being fired, so they spend money willy nilly and dont care. Zero accountability.

And what about Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, Poland, etc. that are much poorer, despite following a more pure form of socialism (state control of the economy) for much of the 20th century?

Russia is a communist nation.

Belarus still has huge ties to russia. EE was under the iron curtain a lot.

you need to keep in perspective just how recently some of these countries in EE gained their independence from being a soviet state, bro.

That is the whole idea. Anywhere you look in the world, market economies outperform state-run economies (whether you want to call it communism, socialism, or whatever). See Eastern Europe vs Western/Northern Europe, or North Korea vs South Korea. Even China lags badly because of it (compare them on a per capita basis to Japan or South Korea), although they have had several decades of continued growth now that they have leaders who are not incompetent.

I think part of the confusion is in labeling the United States a capitalist country and some of these Northern European countries socialist. There is some truth to it but again it is a sliding scale, the ladder being slightly further along on the scale than the U.S. has historically been. Switzerland is a good example of what a strongly market/capitalist economy can achieve.

I understand that either party would complain about this. I think its mostly a petty waste of time to argue about. I found the RNC disappointing last night because it was mostly attacks and not talking about issues. Just like I am sure the DNC will be disappointing and will be nothing but attacks and feel good words without substance.

I have zero confidence in either of these parties. Hence I am voting for Gary.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! We might agree on a candidate...

Why did you have to take a break from training your flying monkey army to post that? Why?

LOL Gary is the great uniter! The common ground between repubs and dems!

It's not as simple as saying, "Look whose economy is better." because of the geopolitics that have gone on for the past 80 years. For example, Cuba's health care system might be the best in the world, their literacy rate is comparable to the United States. Their doctors are extremely well praised across the world and assist the UN more than anyone else. However, their economy is in shambles due to the geopolitics of Soviets vs. The US. Yes, they're extremely restrictive, but the U.S. has been sponsoring coups and assassination attempts for decades. Their restrictiveness is a result of it. Nothing is as simple as comparing the two. Especially with how little communisism is actually ran within the world.

Why would a democrat ever like Gary's policies to eliminate a lot of federal agencies in the United States.

Democrats would like him because he is socially progressive. Moderates of either side would like that he is fiscally conservative.

Also, how do you get that from this?
https://johnsonweld.com/issues/

I do support them. Cops, firefighters, military, etc.

I just think there's a huge amount of waste in overseeing many/most of the other programs.

Plus, once a program (not police, ff, military, etc) gets put in place, reducing it is simply not possible.

See, "we" constantly come up with new programs to help the poor. All the gov't. needs is just more money.


Heck, just right around here I can't tell you the number of people that are scamming the gov't. for benefits. It's pathetic.

Here is my thinking on the matter. First, I liked Bernie but feel betrayed now that he has endorsed Hillary. I will never vote for Hillary or Trump. That leaves me with Gary Johnson or Jill Stein.

Right now Johnson is almost viable at 13% in the polls. His libertarian platform does contain several things I like, even though some I don't. Add this to the fact that his ticket is made up of two Governors and they have some experience at the executive level (much more than Trump and comparable to Hillary).

Jill Stein is Bernie 2.0. She even offered her position to Bernie for a third party run... I like her platform a lot. But the problem is she is only at 5% and when you listen to her she sounds a little too utopian. Add in that (although she is a doctor) she doesn't have executive experience that I'm aware of nor am I aware of any office she has held.

So if I don't want to waste my vote (which will most likely be wasted anyway) I have to choose the most viable candidate that is not Hillary or Trump.

Did you even read your link? Look now, I've been very keen on Gary Johnson and Libertarians like him for longer than you have.


I could see the socially liberal angle.

edit: nevermind

I need to add that Gary Johnson needs to add medicare for all in some form to sell me. I'm also not crazy over his idea of managing global warming at the state level or not at all due to cost analysis.

I'm all for reducing the government, internet freedom, restoring individual freedom...

I'm not a fan of minimum wage as I think it sets a base pay that becomes a target pay and the economy will adjust to whatever it is set at regardless of how often it is adjusted.

I prefer reinforcement of collective bargaining and free market. BUT we have to stop the Oligarchy.

If Jill Stein can pick up steam I'll go with her, but until then Johnson is my screw you vote to both the GOP and Dems.

Dude, your first quote says nothing about getting rid of federal agencies. And as far as the second one, common core is universerally unpopular. No one will cry to see that go.

If you were to hear his speeches over the years then you know he's wanted to gut the power of the EPA. But what about the second quote? Did you read that one? He's for the elimination of far more many agencies that his website doesn't list.

Another classic example of someone not researching what they're voting form. A major reason why we have Trump and HRC as the nominees. You really do reap what you sow.

I can only go by what what his website says. But to say it will go beyond that is fantasy as congress will never agree.

Nintendo did more in one day of pokemon go to fight obesity than Michelle did in 8 years.

Yet you support Bernie that wanted to double the size of government.

They are counting delegates. What does it mean if a state passes?

https://gma.yahoo.com/antonio-sabato-jr-...topstories.html

That's how we roll now?

So disrespectful. Might as well have some of y'all posters giving speeches.

Its just a lame attempt to get the female vote.

Could you even call that an attempt tho?

Well he was a beloved star on a day time soap opera. So stay at home moms will like him.

Its so random an weird to have him on there, its the only thing I can think of.

Trump officially clinches nomination.

Useless delegates crying foul. Blah blah blah shut up faceless dellys

Hey Swish,
You know when you are a washed up actor, and you NEED to get paid, the quickest way to do it is talk crazy at the republican base. That has got to be the quickest get rich scheme around. When he started talking and did the ABC interview later, I said, he is trying to get paid quickly. Sabato actually said " His name is not a Christian name"!! How freakin idiotic do you have to be to say that!!.. Unless you trying to cash in!!

Have a good one Swish!.. And yes, some of these repubs that post here could do a better job!.. And that is scary!

Lol yea man. That's how they got Stacy Dash on Fox News. She ain't been poppin since the mid 90's.

So could some of you libs.....buy hey, I've always liked you DinDC....hope life finds you well. Keep it real my friend. There is room for everybody to learn a little something.