DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum A Closer Look at the Passing Game-Hue/2016

Is that statistically speaking?

I don't know, but probably the Rams, Titans, 49ers, Ravens, Lions, and Vikings are in contention for those spots.

and





Well ed.........I think you are pretty intelligent and I enjoy your research. On the other hand, you seem to ignore the research that some of us have done.

You arrived on this board when the Browns signed RGIII. You seem very biased when reporting your "research." You don't acknowledge his weaknesses.

I am ONLY speaking for myself, but it's kinda hard to view you as an objective poster when we are discussing RGIII.

*LOL* .. I love u man ... Everytime u post I either learn or laugh and most of the time both ...

That was great ...

That's an interesting list Vers .. Hmmm ...

Rams .. Yup .. There possibly worse
Titans .. I dunno .. They got Mariotta and I really like Walker at TE .. Possibly but I don't think so
9ers .. Wow .. They very well could be ..
Rats - I don't see that all .. Flacco, Smith .. That blows us away right there ..
Lions - not even close ..
Vikes - I don't see this one either ...

There's definetly 3 on there .. And possibly the Rats .. Lions and Vikes .. I don't see it ..

Man .. There's bad QB'S and receiving corps in this league ..

Oh............I thought it was just a ranking of the receivers?????

IF it included the QBs, than I would definitely change my list.

My bad, bro.

Uhmmmm.........I think it might be your bad, bro. This is from ed's post:

I don't think ignore is the right term about my reaction to some of the information out there regarding Griffin.
I know you disagree and an internet forum isn't really the place for a discussion about the current state of media and the power a "source" has to shape a story. But, imo its hard to have a discussion about Griffin's perception through the media without bringing up that Mike Shanahan has been on a personal smear campaign against the kid and it has shaped how Griffin was reported on through the media.
So, yeah I question the veracity of some of the "reports" about Griffin and have posted on the record sourced articles that contradict those negative perceptions of his character.

I've addressed my opinion of his weaknesses often. I could dig them up, but I've been down this road before. Iirc (could be wrong because I've had these discussion with several posters) but I've even invited you/some other posters to a more in depth discussion about Griffin's skillset and strengths/weaknesses that weren't meant with a replies. And the offer remains(maybe not in this thread but in an appropriate one)

Now, we don't agree about all of his pros/cons or areas of strengths and weaknesses but that doesn't mean I don't acknowledge that he does have weaknesses.

Of course Griffin was the main reason I joined this forum. And if that is an obstacle for some in regards to me level of objectivity that's fine, it makes sense.

But, imo if you look at the content, tone and quality of my posts not just about Griffin but on football in general I would hope that it would lean more towards objectivity then anything else. I could be rightly accused of being an objective optimist.

LOL........I like that!

Peace----for now------brother.

Oops .. My bad .. Thanks for pointing it out ..

That does make it interesting .. Only one I see that doesn't make any sense at all is the Lions .. Golden Tate is way better than anything on any of those teams ,,, we can only hope Coleman is as good as him ..

Those were just my guesses. Not sure of actual rankings.

If I had to guess, I would say the rest of our offense gets ranked somewhere around these numbers:

QB: 30th

RB: 25th

OL: Low 20s [this after being one of the top lines in the league last year.......losing Mack and Schwartz is a lot to overcome. Plus, Bittonio regressed last year.]

And we already know they have our WRs at 30th. I would put them at 31, only ahead of SF, but whatever.

Not looking like we'll have a great offense this year. Gee, that's something new.

But ... but ... but we sucked last year. Losing those guys can only help, not hurt

::clicks link::

49ers and Rams, respectively.

I'm not entirely sure we deserve to be ranked as high as we are.

Plus the Lions signed Marvin Jones..who the Browns didn't even bother looking into to.
Wow that trio of Moore Hawkins and Coleman just screams playmakers.
I can see the Browns opposing DC losing sleep on which WR is his number 1 CB going to cover.
This offense is going to be scary.......scary bad.

From the link:

12. Ravens (but the comments indicate strong disagreement with this)
23. Lions
24. Vikings
27. Titans
28. Chiefs (because they are awful after Maclin)
29. Eagles
30. Browns
31. 49ers
32. Rams

The ones that blew my mind were Patriots at 1, Redskins at 3 and Raiders at 18. (TEs were included in these rankings)

Cleve - thanks man .. WOW ... The pats .. At first I was Iike WOW .. BUT WHEN U INCLUDE TE'S .. Oops.. Sorry bout the caps ..

There actually pretty dam good ... Maybe not the best ... But pretty darn good ...

Redskins? .. What am I missing here? .. That ones mind boggling ..

Don't agree with the Chefs either .. They have Kelce at TE .. He's a BEAST ...

Not sure how they have the lambs below us .. They at least have Austin ... Guess your splitting hairs at this point ..

Vers/Purp/Stripper - It's OK to be this bad at the receiving position this year .. Next year .. NOT ACCEPTABLE ,.. Some of these youngin's need to mature quickly and be ready to be major contributors ..

We're YOUNG and I mean YOUNG at this position ...

Stripper - good point about Jones ... Forgot about him ...

He really produced with Hue there ... Not sure why we didn't even sniff at him .. ESPECIALLY WITH ALL THAT CASH!!!!

Wonder if Hue got MONEYBALLED on this one ...

FWIW, I don't see Moore making the team this year.

Well, now that Gordon is back, things just got muddy for some other receivers.

If you draft 3 4 rookie WRS (most NFL teams don't do that but leave it to the Browns to) then you have to also bring that veteran WR to accelerate their growth.
There isn't one current Browns WR that's not a rookie
That hasnt even racked up more than 70 catches or 1000 yds
In a season even the resumes of the vets are average.
With all that cap room the Browns did nothing to bring
In a difference maker at WR.
It's a passing league.
The rules favor the offense. Just look at the numbers
But judging by the Browns they are clueless when it comes
To building a offense.

Me thinks.that last WR will ask Josh out for a few drinks in week 2 and there spot is secure ...

You don't need the veteran staple when you have excellent coaching. That is what will make or break this team. The coaching leap we took this off season, I believe, will be the catalyst to becoming a playoff contender. I think players in the past may have had a better chance at success has the coaching been up to par. Now, I think they have been given the best possible situation to succeed.

You can only coach the talent you have, or don't have as the case may be.

Disagree with some of your points, Hawkins has 5 yrs in league, he knows Hue's O, he can lead...Chad Johnson, assist coach could help, our coaches are experienced...Browns have no O, well they hired THE BEST HEAD COACH available- a respected O coach....time will tell, our O could be GOOD, who knows yet before the first snap.....GO Browns!!!!

Adding Josh changes a lot.
Week 5 starting WRs could be: Gordon, Coleman and whomever stepped up during weeks 1-4.
Gordon & Pryor on the outside w/ Coleman in the slot?
Gordon & Coleman outside w/ Hawk in the slot?
Gordon & Coleman outside w/ Rookie in the slot?
Gordon & Rookie (Louis/Payton) on the outside w/ Coleman in the slot?

Josh Gordon vaults this receiving corps up several notches

It's been a long time since Gordon played competitive football. When he did he was coming off a ten game suspension. He was rusty and had no prior experience in the offense. He failed miserably and it was obvious both physically and mentally. It was also obvious it weighed negatively on his psyche.

Now he comes back. He comes into a a new offense in which he has had no prior experience. To complicate matters he is on the NFI list with an injury. He will miss a lot of camp, thereby missing practice in this offense with his teammates. Those who do participate have already been through OTA's and will be way ahead of him at the position in terms of knowing the offense.

To further complicate his return he is suspended the first four games. That's four more weeks missing reps in the system as he falls further behind his teammates in experience.

If Gordon misses only two weeks of camp with his injury it would add up to him missing all of the OTA's and six of the first eight weeks of 2016. He will have participated in only two weeks of camp and none of the first four regular season games to start the season. By week 5 of the regular season he will have worked only the third and fourth weeks of camp, with all the starters decided by the third week. He'll likely not play much, if at all, that third week since it's the dress rehearsal for the regular season. He'll probably play a lot in the fourth preseason game but not with the first team nor the starting QB.

Missing all but four games over the past two years and then missing OTA'a and six of the first eight weeks of this season does not bode well for him to hit the ground running by game 5 of 2016, either physically or mentally, in this new offense.

To complicate things even further, if his return is not complicated enough to this point, is his need to succeed in his personal life well enough to stay on the team.

I don't look for any meaningful contribution from Josh Gordon until late in the season or maybe not even at all until next season. Of course, if he keeps his nose clean then he could be the equal of the team gaining more than a successful high first round WR pick in the 2017 Draft without even having to draft one.

We all remember him as his league leading season and so it's hard to fault anyone for having hope. But so much has happened, or more accurately not happened with him since then, that his return is not a lock to work out in any aspect be it physically, mentally or in his personal life.

I think he has a much bigger hill to climb than some realize.

A lot probably depends on how much he's able to do here in the next few weeks (both mentally and physically). He's gotta immerse himself into everything to get back into the groove.

Points are valid about Gordon,BUT he hurt himself keeping in shape-looking at him, he's still a freak, mental/he's changed in MHO, he WAS in denial, he's now been to rehab, has continuing care (NOT alone), and the circus is GONE- Manziel, Farmer, etc...replaced by Sashi/Brown/high character guys who want him to succeed...I think he finally has WANT TO...that is huge in my opinion....time will tell, him on the field has to scare folks....AND no mention of Pryor, who COULD be a force himself......GO Browns!!!!

Those are factors many wish to rationalize around, not put into play or simply dismiss. The odds of Gordon having any major impact this season are slim. The facts you outlined show the reality of the situation. For some reason people seem to indicate that working out has a lot to do with being football ready. It doesn't.

I do believe it takes time and hits before your body gets adjusted to football. Its why I hated the campcupcake stuff under pet. I know u are risking injury with a lot of contact in camp but I honestly believe it is just as big of a risk to go without the contact and hitting and without you have a soft team that doesnt like to wrap up and form tackle and you have a team that isnt willing to stick their nose in there and take the big hit to protect the runner.

Gordon hasnt had any real contact in 2 years. its gonna take awhile for his body to get into football shape and also his mind to get into football shape.

+ dudes can still get injured with no contact. When I did my ACL there wasn't a player within 30 yards of me, same with ankle ligaments. The Fullback just got concussed during a running drill lol.

Rusty? Yes.

Failed miserably? I guess to each his own.

Ok, to each his own.

What is your response to his chances of contributing starting on game 5 considering his long layoff and lack of opportunity to prepare for the season?

To me, some of your comments seem giddy that we'll be getting the league leading WR as though he just did that last year in this offense.

You'll have to clarify/quote these 'giddy' comments in order for me to know what you're referring to.

That stuff for instance. Given Gordon's long layoff and his limited opportunities this training camp, (partially due to his injury which has him on the NFI list) and learning a new offense along with being suspended the first four games all while other players are practicing and progressing, it seems to me that he'll be way, way behind everyone else by the 5th game of the regular season.

That's all I'm questioning because I see the hill he has to climb as being mountain-sized with little opportunity to climb to a starter position.

I like Gordon a lot. The car dealership he worked at during his year long suspension is in my small hometown. Everybody there said he is a great guy. Plus, most of his problems have been minor in so far as the measurements above the limits. I don't see him as a bad guy. I see him like my nephew who has only ever made a few very small legal mistakes but has never gotten away with any of them. It has him unfairly known as a guy who is always in trouble with the law.

I have loads of hope for Gordon, both as a person and as a Browns player. I just see it being a long way back as opposed to your "Week 5 starting WRs could be:..." comment.

I'm not trying to fight about anything. I think we just have differing opinions of his chances this season. Of course, I could be wrong.

Evidently Chad Johnson has left the team to take care of some personal matters. Hue said that he learned that this business (coaching) is hard. The team is unsure if he will be returning, or not.

Lol, sure seems like you're trying to fight about something.
You actually said this:
I have no idea how what I posted suggests that Gordon will be leading the league as if he did it last year nor does that equate to 'some' of my comments being giddy.

If thinking that Josh will start week 5 is being 'giddy' then guilty as charged.

In 2014, after missing 11 games and being away from the team those for those 11 games, he came in and started.

Apparently so.

Look, it seems you want to have an argument...which is fine. But, I don't see how the argument you are trying to have stems from my posts. Now are there some posts that are similar to your accusation? Sure, but guess what? They're not my posts.

To me thinking Josh will start week 5 making giddy statements as if he'll lead the league in receiving

Bad structure in my "league leading" sentence. He WAS a league leading WR and I felt that your comments made it sound like you think we'll be getting THAT GUY out of the gate. Not that you implied that he would lead the league THIS year.

You are then "guilty as charged" as you do seem 'giddy' that he will start week 5.



And he stunk it up. He was immediately thrown into the starter role after being with the team for one week following not being with the team for eleven weeks. He had one week to learn the new offense and to get into game shape. As a result he gave up on some routes and missed balls. Overall he looked overwhelmed, upset with himself and seemed to develop an attitude.

He is faced with very much the same situation this time. Missing a lot of time, new coaches, new offense and very little time to catch up with his teammates. It's looking like he'll have two weeks of camp and then game 5. A positive this time he didn't have before is this time he'll be around his teammates, will meet his coaches weeks before his first game and will be in WR meetings all camp. And then there's the third and fourth preseason games to play in.



I explained how the opinion I garnered from your posts differ from my own opinion. It's not an argument. It's a difference of opinion. I'm simply trying to point out that I feel his path to being a starter is a hard one whereas you feel he'll start game 5. That's not an argument.

Could you explain how his path to being a starter won't be as difficult as I presume, thus enabling him to start game 5?

You can feel however you like about my comments but that doesn't in any way change what actual my comments were. I'll gladly defend my comments, I'm not gonna argue over comments you 'feel' I was making.


Lol, as I said before to each his own.
11 game lay off, away from the team:
5 games/5 starts 24 catches 303 yards 12.6 ypc.
Spread out over 15 games: 72 catches and 909 yards.

In what world is that stinking it up? Lol, his 1st game back he had 8 catches for 120 yards.

The opinion you garnered from my posts? You mean the conclusion you leapt based on my stating that Gordon will be starter week 5 and speculating where he might play X, Z or slot.

Well not quite, you could have disagreed with my opinion that he'll start week 5 without claiming that I was giddy and that I thought he would be a league leading receiver. Also, thinking Josh will start week 5 doesn't mean that I think his path to being a starter won't be hard. I've made no comment in regards to whether his path will hard or lined with rose petals.

I could but first I would have to think his path won't be difficult. That's your assumption.

Well, there you have it. It was a fight. You won.

Is there a link