DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Mean while back in France !

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/2-hostage-take...topstories.html

Priest has throat cut ..

Same attack, British report.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...nch-church.html

EVERY DAY ... But no biggie .. It's not coming here .. *rolls eyes*

Guess what Germany is FINALLY doing today ... There talking of ENDING ASYLUM ...

OUGHT OH .... They finally smartened up .. It only took 5 attacks in 9 days ... OK .. 4 attacks in 9 days .. One was from Iran but he was just a whack adobo ..

He wasn't from Iran. He was from Germany.

Swish he was German/Iranian .. Or Iranian/German ..

Nothing is going to change until we stop splitting hair's already ..

You just had a priest have his throat slit and you want to talk about above .. Please !

Well I didn't bring that up. Diam did. How about you check him on that instead of coming at me?

*LOL* ... Good thing u don't have an agenda Swish ..

I took him out of the count and said he was COOKOO .. Yet u still feel the need to point out the fact u think he's from Germany ... *L* .. OK .. No agenda there ..

Now here's posting without an agenda .. Actually there is an agenda ... It's called getting the facts out ..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/07/...ing-centre-gun/

"The German-Iranian student lived comfortably in a fifth-floor apartment in the middle-class Munich suburb of Maxvorstad with his parents, one of them a taxi driver and the other a department store worker.

Mostly home to immigrant families, the well-tended apartment block sits next to a luxury Maserati car dealership.

Thomas De Maziere, the German interior minister, said Sonboly's parents were asylum-seekers from Iran who came to Germany in the late 1990s."

I could have cut that short .. But that's LYING IMO ..

So as it turns out he technically was from Iran ... But moved to Germany as a very young child .. That was raised in an immigrant community ...

Bottom line Swish .. HE WAS COCCO PUFFS ... Out of his mind .. Something I said initially ..

But like u said .. Your only agenda is the facts and the truth" ..

2 other things I find fascinating Swish ...

- why would u come to this thread and focus on that ...

- and I actually mentioned GERMANY THINKING ABOUT ending asylum ..

Bouncing ball Swish .. Follow the bouncing ball Mr. Swish ..

I'm not focusing on anything.

I simply corrected you. I was raised in the military, all over.

Does that mean I'm from Turkey?

You talk about identifying the problem, but then you're failing to identify the problem.

The whole thing is a cluster over there in Europe. The attack are ramping up.

My point is try to separate if you can. Sometimes they just aren't related.

Personally, I am tired of this racial crap. Does it really matter where they are born? The commonality has been their religious beliefs.

I know one actual 'African-American', being a person born in Africa that has immigrated to America. Her dad was an Egyptian Arab, and her mom was British. She was a pale girl with delicate features and dark hair. Does that make her an 'African-American' as the divisive policies of our country say, or does that euphemism mean 'black'? Is the black guy I used to work with an African-American, or is he actually British? It's all pretty stupid as I see it.

Now back to the attack in the German McDonalds. So far, I have seen that he has no islamist ties, that he does have islamist ties, that he yelled 'ahallu akbar', that he didn't, he was a neo-nazi, he was a loony obsessed with mass killings. I personally don't trust the German government, as they did everything they could to block the press on the mass sex assaults on New Year's Eve. To me, this eventually comes back to integration and uncontrolled immigration.

If I was to move to another country, I could see that I would be expected to blend into their society, instead of trying to force them to mine. I would be expected to learn their language, instead of expecting to find all the government forms in mine. It is up to the immigrant to adapt, not the host country. This is what multiculturalism has brought us, and it needs to stop.

Look Gentlemen ( and Ladies ) : I am not come back at or putting down anyone .. If it came over that way please except my apology's .. The point is this Terrorist campaign by any or all , is way out of control at this point and starting to spiral .. May I suggest that we / all / put are collective heads together and stomp this crap out ..

It won't be solved by us, only by good Leadership in Washington.

It's all good. Most of us know that you mean well. I agree that we should all put our collective heads together and come up with solutions to the problem of widespread terrorism. It has gotten out of control.

This quote by Erik is so true. Waterdawg you lived abroad for a good many years, how did you adapt?

To coin the current term of choice by the left, he's "deflecting". This is the term used when a point is made that there is no response possible that reflects any intelligence.

How am I deflecting?

I corrected him. And why do you always say something about my intelligence?

And that can be done without losing your own sense of being an American.

Well I had the advantage on spending time over sea's in my Military life for starters .. When I moved down to Central/South America I made a point of not being the Ugly American / learned Spanish and worked very hard at making friends and trying to appreciate the Latin Culture .. Now don't get me wrong , everything wasn't hunky dory all the time .. The biggest challenge for me was discussing Politics's and keeping my cool ( sound familiar .. lol ) Still have friends I stay in touch with Down there and a few in Europe

Thank U sir ... Appreciate it .. Can't wait to use it .. Gonna save my brain a lot of stress .. *L* .

Cjrae is a cool guy!

Well, according the O's, the country is safer than ever before. What terrorism? Oh look, another life lost due to beheading. What terrorism?

Dude ... What's your problem with O ... He was right ... Did the sun not come up today and were the birds not chirping ... Sheesh .. We all know that if the sun rises and the birds chirp all is well ..

I see trees of green
Red Roses too
I see them bloom
For me and you
And I think to myself
What a wonderful world

Louis Armstrong

http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/26/opinions/why-terrorist-attacks-opinion-peter-bergen/index.html

(CNN)Mass casualty terrorist attacks in Orlando, at the Istanbul airport, at a café in Bangladesh, a market in Baghdad, the Bastille Day celebration in Nice, and on Tuesday the murder of an elderly priest in Normandy, all carried out by ISIS or in the name of ISIS. And that's just in the past several weeks.

Peter Bergen
Peter Bergen
After each one of these attacks the first question is: Why? Why would anyone kill complete strangers who are dancing at a nightclub, or eating at a restaurant, or folks attending a holiday fireworks display, or an 86-year-old priest?

There are five deep historical currents that are influencing these events. At the macro level, ISIS is not itself the problem — though it certainly amplifies existing problems — but rather it's the symptom of five major problems that are driving jihadist terrorism around the globe and will continue to do so even when ISIS is contained and largely defeated.

Five reasons
1. The first major problem is the regional civil war in the Middle East between the Sunni and the Shia that engulfed first Iraq, then Syria and now Yemen. That regional civil war is being driven by a variety of factors including the failure of the largely Shia Iraqi government to give Sunnis a real place at the table and the brutal civil war that the Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad is waging on his largely Sunni population. Also in the mix is the role that Iran and the Gulf states have played in fighting each other in Syria through proxy forces such as the Sunni militant groups that are supported by the Gulf states and the Shia militias that are supported by Iran.

This regional sectarian war was amplified by Saudi Arabia's invasion of Yemen in the spring of 2015 to fight what they believe to be Iranian-backed Houthis who had recently seized control of the Yemeni capital.

The civil war across the Middle East between the Shia and the Sunni empowers groups like ISIS and al Qaeda who claim to be the defenders of Sunni rights against Shia attack.
Until there is real political accommodation between the Sunnis and the Shia in countries such as Iraq, Syria and Yemen and some kind of rapprochement between the mortal enemies of Iran and Saudi Arabia, these sectarian wars will grind on.

Don't, however, expect such an accommodation in the short- or medium-term. The Syrian civil war is already in its fifth year and the principal players in the conflict both inside Syria and outside of the country show absolutely no sign of making even the first tiny steps toward setting up a real peace process. And, as we have seen, the West does not have much of an ability to make this happen either.
2. A major problem is the collapse of Arab governance around the region. Think of ISIS as a pathogen that preys on weak hosts in the Muslim world. In fact, there is something of a political law: The weaker a Muslim state, the stronger will be the presence of ISIS or like-minded groups. So, in Iraq, Libya, Syria and Yemen -- countries that are completely failed states or are largely failing states -- the presence of these groups is strong. In Muslim countries with somewhat competent governments such as Indonesia, the presence of these groups is relatively small.

3. As result of the first two problems, there are unprecedented waves of immigration from the Muslim world flooding into the West, in particular to Europe.
Germany alone has taken a million refugees. European countries simply do not have the ideological framework the United States has in the shape of the "American dream" that has helped to absorb successfully wave after wave of immigration to the States, including Muslim Americans who are well integrated into American society. There is no analogous French dream or German dream.

4. Massive immigration from the Muslim world into Europe has amplified a fourth problem, which is the rise of European ultranationalist and protofascist parties.

These parties define themselves as deeply opposed to immigrants and are ultranationalist in flavor. These parties once played a very marginal role in European politics but are now doing well in Austria, France, Hungary, Poland and Switzerland. The rise of these parties is reflective of the rising anti-immigrant sentiment in many European societies that in turn amplifies the feelings of alienation that many Muslims feel in Europe.

5. Muslims in Europe live largely separate and unequal lives. An indication of how marginalized European Muslims are is provided by the following bleak statistics: The proportion of the French prison population that is Muslim is estimated to be around 60%, yet Muslims only account for about 8% of France's total population. In Belgian prisons there is a similar story: 35% of the prison population is Muslim, yet Muslims only make up 6% of the overall population.

Muslim citizens in France are 2½ times less likely to be called for a job interview than a similar Christian candidate, according to a researcher at Stanford University.

Many French Muslims live in grim banlieues, the suburbs of large French cities (similar to housing projects in the United States), where they find themselves largely divorced from mainstream French society. According to the Renseignements Généraux, a police agency that monitors militants in France, half the neighborhoods with a high Muslim population are isolated from French social and political life. The French term for these neighborhoods is equivalent to "sensitive urban zones," where youth unemployment can be as high as 45%.
None of these five problems is easily solved.
All these feed into ISIS' narrative that Muslims are under attack by the West and also by the Shia as well as by any Muslim who doesn't share their extremist ideology.

Case study: The Orlando killer
This simplistic ideology is appealing for men like Omar Mateen, who carried out the Orlando nightclub attack that killed 49 last month.
While Mateen pledged himself to ISIS during his attacks, a more complex stew of personal traits and resentments also propelled him toward violence. As a child Mateen was angry and disruptive in class and was disciplined more than 30 times in elementary and middle school. Age 14 he was expelled from high school for fighting. On the morning of the 9/11 attacks, Mateen told classmates Osama bin Laden was his uncle.
As an adult, co-workers remember that he claimed to have connections to both al-Qaeda and Hezbollah, terrorists groups that are at war with each other. His first wife says he was abusive and couldn't control his temper.

Mateen had a dream that had faded. He desperately wanted to be a cop and took selfies of himself wearing New York Police Department shirts, but he was dismissed from a Florida police-training academy in 2007 because he threatened to bring a gun to campus and was falling asleep in class.
Eight years later in 2015, Mateen tried once again to become a police officer, applying to the police academy at Indian River State College in Fort Pierce, but he was turned down because he admitted that he had used marijuana in the past and also for what the college termed were "discrepancies" in some of the information he included on his application form.
Mateen's grievances festered. By carrying out a terrorist attack as a self-styled "Islamic fighter" pledging allegiance to ISIS, Mateen was finally the heroic figure he believed himself to be, rather than the going-nowhere security guard at a golf resort community that he was at the time he opened fire in the Pulse nightclub in Orlando.

Jihadist terrorists in the West such as Mateen are generally motivated by a mix of factors, including the militant Islamist ideology promulgated by ISIS; dislike of Western foreign policy in the Muslim world; a need to attach themselves to an ideology or organization that gives them a sense of purpose; and a "cognitive opening" to militant Islam that often is precipitated by some kind of personal disappointment, like the death of a parent, a recent divorce, or some kind of failure in the workplace.
For many terrorists, carrying out an attack allowed them to become the heroes of their own story.
With ISIS likely headed toward defeat on the battlefield in the next year or so, it's helpful to think about the constellation of deep historical currents that produced the would-be caliphate -- because if we don't start thinking seriously about how to fix those problems we will find that after ISIS there will arise a similar terrorist organization that feeds off the toxic problems bedeviling both the Middle East and Europe.

So like Obama has said all along : It's all about Jobs ?? Righhhhhhhhhhht !

no, it's not only just about jobs.

**disclaimer** not defending terrorism. since yall like to pull that nonsense around here. just UNDERSTAND the enemy so we can figure out how to CRUSH them. ***disclaimer***

i've been telling y'all over and over again. look at how people get radicalized.

that article that Saint posted. you can almost apply that to the state of inner cities around the country.

i don't understand why you guys are so quick to shoot down this idea, especially you Water, since you're one of the main ones saying you want to figure out solutions.

especially you bro. i mean damn you lived overseas like i have. don't sit there and tell me that you haven't seen the obvious:

the more poverty, the more crime. that is a constant in ANY country, anywhere.

it's not the SOLE reason, but it's a huuuuuuuugeee portion of the problem.

y'all won't listen to me, and i've lived overseas and am Turkish descent.

y'all won't listen to the countless articles and international studies that i have posted on the topic.

y'all wont listen to any body else not associated with me who say the same things.

so i can only assume you only want solutions that satisfy your blood lust.

Swish , I don't know anyone who will not except the fact that #1 Education and # 2 poverty are PART of the root cause for violence .. However , what we are witnessing now ( in my humble opinion , lol ) goes way beyond that .. There have been many a terrorist with an education from a fine family ?? Trust me Dawg I am not casting aspersions nor do I have the answers ( Yet ) ..

All I know is the biggest threat to the lives of Americans today is other Americans.

Pfft, terrorists.

No such thing as radicalized Islamic groups, anyway... terrorists, pft.

Bus them rookies to any American city and drop them on the corner, they will be dog meat in minutes.

RAT TAT TAT TAT TAT
RAT TAT TAT
RAT TAT TAT TAT TAT

Pfft, Me so terrorized!

Yes, but you also don't listen to those that say it's about the group that is trying to establish a caliphate and is bent on making the entire world muslim and have us all fall under that caliphate. Have you ever read up on the Iranians that believe in the coming of the 12th imam. It's almost like reading Revelations from the opposing viewpoint.

i do listen to it. i just think it's overblown.

there's how many muslims in this world?

there's how many people in this world?

and you really think a handful of terrorist groups is going to establish a worldwide order of muslims?

i'm sorry but that's paranoia. yes, we must absolutely deal with these scumbags now, but don't sit there and think i'm suppose to believe that they will be able to do that anywhere?

they can't even convince 99% of other muslims. hence why they kill more of their own than anybody else.

so please stop with the paranoia and fear mongering. that's not helping to come up with viable solutions to our problems, bro. it just isn't.

just like there's how many christians in this world?

no world order. and i'm pretty sure some groups tried back in the day.

i know who those groups are, Erik. just in case you forgot, i helped kill them off.

There have been posters who don't by the poverty excuse, even though it stares them in the face.

and terrorist can come from any background, you're right. but there's no perfect system, so you come up with a solution that matches the goal as best as you can.

we're bombing them to the point that the Air Force is saying they are starting to run out of bombs.

we're spending trillions, they are spending thousands, yet who's been more effective?

at some point we have to look at other solutions. that's all i'm saying.

And I UNDERSTAND !.. We have been trying to find the cure for cancer for decades now .. This so over the top for an old fart like me .. I just can't rap my head around it and it frustrates the devil out of me ( I got a lot of Devil in me )

The director of the FBI said it today. But we, so called islamaphobists, are merely alarmists living in a "dark fantasy". Right!!!!

To answer your question, no, I don't think a small group of muslims are going to establish a world wide caliphate, but I do think they are going to try their hardest. Just to counterpoint your arguments, how many nazis do you think there were before WWII? I would estimate it was far fewer than the current population of Iran and isis combined. Before you say it, I know not all Iranians are in on the plot, so don't bother.

Any movement fluxuates in growth, with regards to your nazi comment.

Unlike the nazi's, however, today's enemy does not wear a uniform.

Even though terrorist groups grow, they also dissolve. Just like any other group.

The nazis was also defeated, btw. I dunno if you remember that part, but there's plenty of movies and documentaries you can reference.

And what we have to do is defeat these losers but the tactics are different. The strategy is different. The solutions are different.

We will never get rid of terrorist organizations. Hell, the nazis still exist. The kkk still exist. The new black panther party exist.

But even you should agree with this point: it's a lot easier to deal with terrorist groups who are smaller like Boko Haram and al Qaeda than it is to deal with top level groups like ISIS, who are way more organized.

You have to understand what the enemy is using to radicalize people. What message they are spreading. The propaganda.

If their message is that NATO, mainly the US, is bombing and killing women and children, and then they turn on the news and it shows that US bombs just killed a bunch of civilians, well say hello to a bunch of new recruits.

****discliamer** because I know some of you like to cherry pick post*****discliamer**

I have been on record saying I would still use the military in order to conduct raids and such.

What I'm saying is that we are making it way harder on ourselves. We can NOT expect to defeat our enemy if their propaganda is being proven RIGHT on a daily basis.

Every credible source has estimates. But so far it seems we've killed slightly more civilians than militants.

Some say it's even, some say it swings the other way, slightly more militants than civilians.

But you understand that right? That's the message. The World is coming after us, and they don't care if they kill your child in the process.

Do you understand how many people get converted just with that single message?

We are literally fueling our own problem at this point. We have bombed and bombed, yet the worldwide attacks from ISIS has increased?

Obviously, our strategy since, I dunno, the wars started, have been ineffective. Hell, it's been ineffective since at least the 80's.

At some point Erik, we have to try something different.

To specifically cherry pick, "But you understand that right? That's the message. The World is coming after us, and they don't care if they kill your child in the process. "

You mean, exactly what they are doing? Exactly what they did before we went into Iraq and Afghanistan? Exactly what they've done since before this country was founded? Amazing!!! Maybe if we did our very best to kill them all quickly, instead of playing with the rules of engagement and trying to be nice, we would have ended this problem 100s of years ago.

It's a battle of ideology and religion. It always has been. Personally, I like the side I was born on more than theirs.

??

I literally just wasted my time, again, trying to explain this.

Whatever man.

Yes, you did, but that's because you keep trying to walk around what is going on. The islamists that believe in the idea of the caliphate have been recruiting like this for many, many years. It raises it's ugly head each time it's put down. The only thing we can really do is put it down and keep it there, much like we do the nazis now.