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Blah blah blah.

When white people get treated like this on a regular basis let me know.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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In the past 24 hours 40 has claimed that all black people look alike and that white people gave them their freedom. But he's not racist, ya'll!

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I tried staying out of this crap thread as long as I could.

But you know what? Y'all don't get it unless it's put in your face.

This is the crap that the black and Latino community goes through on a regular.

Here it is, all of video, and yet people still got the nerve to deny it. And that what's sucks about the whole situation.

Honestly at this point I know y'all couldn't care less. Y'all don't have to live through it, so what does it matter to you?

Columbus, I'm glad you spoke up about this bro.

But when you say you don't care about social issues during elections, maybe you should. Just a little bit.

Cause blacks and Latinos, aka myself, lurker, Clem, Chs. Our communities have to deal with stuff like this on a daily basis. Not weekly. Daily.

Social issues matter to us bro.

Last edited by Swish; 08/07/16 12:42 PM.

“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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Not great police work at all. But I've been stopped plenty of times in my life. Yes, I'm white. But that has nothing to do with it. Because my point is I can't imagine myself being argumentative and resistive like that from the beginning.

If you're black and you are expecting to be treated unfairly then that is all the more reason to politely answer the questions and comply with simple orders.

What is the point of hesitation in giving your name? What is your reason for resisting a simple pat down for a weapon? Is it because you think if you give your name something bad will happen? Do you think if you comply to the weapon pat down and they find no weapon that it will go bad for you?

If you resist either of those two simple requests it gives the appearance that you do have something to hide. Patrick had nothing to hide, so why did he react that way?

Is this the way you would act if confronted by the police?


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Originally Posted By: CHSDawg
In the past 24 hours 40 has claimed that all black people look alike and that white people gave them their freedom. But he's not racist, ya'll!



Swish said he guesses all blacks look the same.
I said we all look the same.
This is true especially when you are unfamiliar with a race of people.
Isn't this why the lineup at the police station has dropped out of favor?

You guys can make every issue a race issue if it pleases you but I will call you on it when it is not.

Dismissing everyone who has a different opinion from yours as Racist and bigoted is foolish and will only serve to strengthen the Racists when something occurs that really is racist.

Have you ever wondered why the cries of BLM falls mostly on deaf ears and is so quickly dismissed? See above.

Last edited by 40YEARSWAITING; 08/07/16 01:06 PM.
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Yes, it's exactly how I would react.

They had no warrant. They didn't ask for ID.

So guess what that means? No crime was being committed.

No crime was committed.

No crime was committed.

If a cop ask my name, I HAVE before replied "why?"

Because guess what? That's NOT A CRIME


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Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
I find no evidence of racism until such time as the Police officer admits he acted out of racism. Until then it is only an emotional reaction to the events by Swish.

I rest my case.


So unless a bank robber admits he did it, no bank robbery happened?

Got it!


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What?
So you are saying you know what the officer was thinking when he made the arrest and it was racist? rolleyes

Yet that compares to a guy caught robbing a bank?
Do you know what the bank robber was thinking too?

Get back up there, in the wind.

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Originally Posted By: Swish
Yes, it's exactly how I would react.

Good luck with that.


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Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
What?
So you are saying you know what the officer was thinking when he made the arrest and it was racist? rolleyes

Yet that compares to a guy caught robbing a bank?
Do you know what the bank robber was thinking too?

Get back up there, in the wind.


The bank robber wasn't robbing a bank. He was just making a withdrawal without the sufficient funds in his account and had to ask for other people's money. It was just a standard bank procedure, unless, of course, the man admitted to robbing the bank.

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To try to say that there is no racism among police officers is no different than saying there is no racism in any other profession. That's ridiculous.

There are racists among plumbers, roofers, welders, construction workers and cops. It exists in every profession. To claim you have to wait for someone to admit it for you to believe it's there is nonsensical.


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I have an issue w/you--and some others.

You constantly want to talk about how you are being targeted by others yet get upset when people point out how much harm your own people do to one another.

It seems to me that you are furthering the divide rather than trying to bridge it.

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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
To try to say that there is no racism among police officers is no different than saying there is no racism in any other profession. That's ridiculous.

There are racists among plumbers, roofers, welders, construction workers and cops. It exists in every profession. To claim you have to wait for someone to admit it for you to believe it's there is nonsensical.


Who ever said there is no racism?
What proof of racism do you have on the arresting officer in this case?

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when have I ever got upset?

Last time I checked, I was one of the main ones bringing up issues within blacks.

But I get it, I have to be unbiased while everybody is allowed to constantly talk trash about us.

Kick rocks.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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Quote:
So you are saying you know what the officer was thinking when he made the arrest and it was racist?



What I'd like to ask is this:
"Why is it NEVER a race-related incident with some people?"

Everyone agrees that bigotry exists.
Most agree that racism is a factor in society.
So I ask you: what motivates a person to immediately default to skepticism whenever these situations arise?

You yourself said (loose quote): "unsubstantiated cries of racism dilute the veracity of REAL instances of racism."

To which I counter: "what's to be done when incidents of REAL racism are treated exactly the same way as imagined ones?"


Interesting little 'social conundrum,' isn't it?


"too many notes, not enough music-"

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Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Who ever said there is no racism?
What proof of racism do you have on the arresting officer in this case?


According to your claim, any cop would have to admit to it first. Do you really believe that's ever going to happen? You set a ridiculous precedent before it can be called racism.

I believe the video makes it clear that normal procedures were not followed. It seems that you would never see it unless a cop faced the camera and said, "I'm doing this because I'm a racist."


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Racism exists, brother.

It exists on both sides, Clem.

Now, what can we do to fix it? Put all the blame on the other side?

You are much too intelligent to believe that.

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Originally Posted By: Swish
Yes, it's exactly how I would react.

They had no warrant. They didn't ask for ID.

So guess what that means? No crime was being committed.

No crime was committed.

No crime was committed.

If a cop ask my name, I HAVE before replied "why?"

Because guess what? That's NOT A CRIME

That depends on the circumstances. At best, that is needlessly antagonizing. In many situations it actually is a crime. In Ohio, you are legally obligated to provide your name, address, and date of birth when requested. More details on when that applies here: http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2921.29

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Asking why isn't a crime.

Your link doesn't say it is, either.

Just like recording the cops isn't a crime.

It's funny, you respond to that, but decided not to provide your thoughts on the incident were talking about.


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Originally Posted By: Swish
Asking why isn't a crime.

Your link doesn't say it is, either.

Just like recording the cops isn't a crime.

It's funny, you respond to that, but decided not to provide your thoughts on the incident were talking about.

I've been too busy lately to get too deep into these topics, but I've followed a few of the threads here and there. I posted that because knowing the law might just save your ... one day.

Regarding the incident you're talking about: I think both the officer and Patrick could have handled that situation better. There is a lot of blame to go around.

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Originally Posted By: PitDAWG
Originally Posted By: 40YEARSWAITING
Who ever said there is no racism?
What proof of racism do you have on the arresting officer in this case?


According to your claim, any cop would have to admit to it first. Do you really believe that's ever going to happen? You set a ridiculous precedent before it can be called racism.

I believe the video makes it clear that normal procedures were not followed. It seems that you would never see it unless a cop faced the camera and said, "I'm doing this because I'm a racist."


As usual you did not comprehend.

Maybe you can read minds as to what someone is thinking but the real world can not.
The Cop did some bad police work but to say it was because he is racist is just foolish.

If he said I am pulling you over because I hate Blacks, you got him! Racism.

If he shows a history of pulling over minorities and harassing them, you got him. Racism.

But a guy does a bad job and you want to call him a Racist is only Just and Legal in your world, not ours.

The Precedent you are setting is it is Racist to pull over a Black man. Not in America, at least not yet.

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This showed up on the op-ed pages of our local rag. Interesting read.



Police, race, and some practical steps


A FEW DAYS ago I spoke with a friend who is a retired cop. He was on his way to a forum on race, policing, and community relations at a local, predominantly African-American church. He is African-American.

He told me he was proud of his service as a police officer. And he told me that “90 percent of cops, no maybe more, are great cops.” But, he said, a small percentage of those who become cops should not be cops at all.

And then he told me about the time he was arrested and how he was in cuffs in about two minutes — after a routine traffic stop. He was cleared; the charges were dropped, but it shook him up.

He said that a police chief might have the highest and best of intentions, but getting enlightened attitudes to filter down to all the officers on his force would always be a tough job.

If you want to see if your police force is progressing on race, he said, or even whether a tragic incident is predictable, ask two questions: How does the force treat black cops? And: Do black and white cops, who are not partners, have dinner or lunch together?

There are not enough command officers in the Toledo Police Department, this gentleman said. But worse, black and white officers do not know each other.

I have to wonder aloud, again, would it not be useful for TPD officers, and city workers in general, along with parishioners at downtown and center city churches, to engage in the “Dialogue for Change” program, or some variation of it? We don’t know each other very well, white and black folks, and we need to talk more to fix this. It’s not a police problem; it’s an American problem.

I also spoke, a few days ago, with Oregon Police Chief Mike Navarre. As most people know, he is Toledo’s former chief, as well. He talked about how we can make cops and the innocent people they police more safe. He emphasized four things:

1.) Recruitment

You have to get the right people.

He used almost the exact phrase my cop friend did: Some people are just not cut out to be cops.

You have to screen those people out, but also be able to recruit from a wide sociological swath, Chief Navarre said. We need to widen the net, but even as we expand the pool, tighten the selection process. Not easy.

Many more types of people, Mr. Navarre added, should consider the possibility of being recruited to be cops. But they need the right motivation as well as psychological and physical profile.

Police chiefs need wide discretion, he added, so they can hire young people who had minor infractions as kids.

2.) Training

Mr. Navarre is convinced of the importance of rigorous training. It has to be more than classroom stuff, he said. He told me that the FBI does “reality-based training” and “scenario-based” training. Both are quite useful, he believes.

A huge part of training, the chief believes, as Toledo Chief George Kral also maintains, is communicating — the art of saying to the person stopped: This is what I need from you, and this is what you can expect from me. And saying both things in a respectful way.

Some cops will think this is Kumbaya stuff. Actually it is prevention of escalation and violence technique.

3.) Fitness

The chief believes in a continuing emphasis on — indeed requirement of — physical fitness.

He doesn’t like out-of-shape cops. He says a cop in good shape is less likely to use a gun.

4.) Manpower

Finally, from his work with police chiefs on the state level, the chief has concluded that too many small police departments are not properly manned. And police officers with adequate back-up make fewer mistakes.

If one man is covering the whole town from midnight to 8 a.m., the town is not big enough to have a police department, he said. Some small town departments, he believes, should be merged with other towns, or shut down and town policing turned over to the county sheriff.

Bill Bratton, who has just retired as New York City’s top cop, and who, legitimately, could be called a law enforcement genius, had three great principles — in Boston, New York City, and L.A.: Comprehensive training and re-training for police officers; enforcing social norms that uphold neighborhood integrity and street viability; and recruiting cops who look like the people they police. Mr. Bratton is high on practical steps, derived from the craft of policing, like Mike Navarre’s. He also gets pretty feisty when “activists” bash cops or get in the faces of the cops who are protecting the activists’ right to protest.

In the United States, in the election year of 2016, we are loath to admit that two ideas usually set against each other can both be true. But of course, that is the truth about truth — it is more often binary than uniform.

● Being a cop is the noblest and toughest thing in the world.

There is also a systematic racism at work in our society, often manifested in the administration of justice.

● We need more dialogue between the races and, yes, more sensitivity about race on all sides.

But even more we need honest dialogue. Not politically correct talking around each other.

● As much as we need dialogue, we also need to focus on the kind of sound and practical steps Mr. Navarre describes.

Two things can be true: Black lives matter and blue lives matter.

And so do the not-so-small investments we make in our safety forces and best policing practices.

Keith C. Burris is a columnist for The Blade.


http://www.toledoblade.com/Keith-Burris/2016/08/07/Police-race-and-some-practical-steps.html


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I also wonder if out of shape cops are more likely to use their weapons?

Because, ya know, they are out of shape.


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Or if people would like you know, not run or fight it wouldnt matter what shape they are in. Maybe ya know, instead of punching a cop and running, take your ticket and go home....just a thought

I know this is a waste of time, but it makes me feel better from time to time.

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Originally Posted By: Clemdawg



But even more we need honest dialogue. Not politically correct talking around each other.


Your post was interesting and informative but this one right here...

rofl brownie rofl

Had my fingers burned on that one two many times!

Your problem, no longer mine!

Nuff said.

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The wages of running is death. I never knew that?


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Because people support a police state, then whine about big government.


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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So run = justification to shoot?


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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Originally Posted By: Swish
So run = justification to shoot?



That's not what he said. Not even close, swish.

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Originally Posted By: Swish
Because people support a police state, then whine about big government.


Cooperating and making it safer for yourself and the police when the police want to talk to you doesn't equate to a police state. And the few times people have appeared to cooperate and ended up getting injured or killed anyway, almost everybody wants the police held accountable.. Most people oppose asset forfeiture, most oppose no-knock warrants, most oppose privacy violations...

Your rhetoric on this is a bit over the top and generally in response to the fringe few..


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Sure it does.

Y'all want 100% obedience to police force.

Can't ask why. Just accept the ticket like a good little dog

Just take whatever the cops tell you to do. No questions asked

That's not over the top. That's clear as day. Look at the posters that already defended the cops over the video I posted

Obey.

Yet I'm suppose to believe that when it comes crunch time, y'all won't fold to big government?

Your rhetoric shows I'm not over the top. Not even a bit.


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Why the heck would you even want a cop who can't keep up with the physical aspects of his job? People have became too politically correct these days. We want fat cops. Ha.

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Fat cops matter


“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

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We've been down this road before, if you can't tell me from whoever "Y'all" is, I'm not going to spend 20 minutes writing a post to explain it.

Just lump me in with anybody who favors a white dominated fascist police state I guess.. I'm tired of arguing about it.

Still makes me wonder though why you have said I'm one of the posters on here that you respect if that's really how you think I feel...


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My typical line to a cop who had pulled me over went something like:

"Hey cop, how would you like it if I yanked that gun out of your holster and pulled of a few rounds up your..."

That's the key with cops. You gotta let 'em know who's boss.

I got out of so many traffic tickets that way.

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Quote:
Columbus, I'm glad you spoke up about this bro.

But when you say you don't care about social issues during elections, maybe you should. Just a little bit.

Cause blacks and Latinos, aka myself, lurker, Clem, Chs. Our communities have to deal with stuff like this on a daily basis. Not weekly. Daily.

Social issues matter to us bro.

Sorry it took me so long to respond, been slammed at work. I guess I don't think about this so much as a social issue but maybe it is.

So here is my current thought - why doesn't Obama speak out on it more, I just don't get it. I'm no fan of Obama, but I don't think he has really been all that bad - pretty much the status quo of the last 20 or so years of leadership (maybe longer). That said, he has the perfect opportunity to show some leadership with this. Here we have arguably the most powerful politician (possibly person) in the world, who happens to be black - why isn't he trying to bring everyone together for meaningful discussion about this topic? Maybe he is and I'm missing it, don't know. All that I know is that it is a powder keg out there right now and something needs to be done - a perfect time to show some leadership and possibly a great way to exit his presidency.


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He had a townhall type thing about it after all the crap hit the fan. I didnt watch it so I cant tell you what he said. Although I heard it was balanced to both sides.

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Originally Posted By: EveDawg
He had a townhall type thing about it after all the crap hit the fan. I didnt watch it so I cant tell you what he said. Although I heard it was balanced to both sides.

I heard about that as well, but that isn't enough. This is something a person in his position may actually be able to make a difference with!


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Originally Posted By: columbusdawg
Originally Posted By: EveDawg
He had a townhall type thing about it after all the crap hit the fan. I didnt watch it so I cant tell you what he said. Although I heard it was balanced to both sides.

I heard about that as well, but that isn't enough. This is something a person in his position may actually be able to make a difference with!

I watched it. It was a decent first step, nothing ground breaking was said.. in the ratings it got crushed by Big Brother... so it's hard to say that we, as a culture, want to take this seriously when the President has a town hall on the topic and almost nobody watches it.... then only about half of registered voters will vote...


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Quote:
Monday was Chicago’s worst day in more than a decade for homicides, with 9 people fatally shot

By Derek Hawkins August 10 at 4:10 AM
Michael Lucas, 61, was sitting on his front stoop in Chicago’s Burnside neighborhood, watching his 3-year-old grandnephew play in the afternoon sun, when without warning two men ran toward the house and opened fire on him.


61-y-o Michael Lucas was on his Chatham porch watching child play when he was fatally shot.

One shot struck Lucas. As the men advanced up the sidewalk, they pushed Lucas’s grandnephew out of the way and shot Lucas three more times, family members said. The attackers fled in a red SUV, and Lucas died on the stoop from gunshot wounds to the neck and head.

Lucas was one of 19 people shot on Monday — nine of them fatally — in what the Chicago Tribune has called the city’s deadliest day in more than a decade.

Chicago has experienced a surge in violence in the past year, much of it concentrated on the city’s South Side, where Lucas lived. A staggering 2,500 people have been shot in the city since the beginning of the year, more than in any year at this point since the 1990s. There have been at least 426 homicides in 2016, far more than in New York, which has three times Chicago’s population.

Monday marked the most homicides Chicago has seen in a single day since July 5, 2003, when 10 people were killed, according to the Tribune.

The Chicago Police Department hasn’t offered an official response to the day’s violence. A spokesman for the department didn’t immediately respond to a request for comment Tuesday night.

Lucas, a father of three and grandfather of seven, was shot at about 1:20 p.m., according to police, who said he didn’t appear to be the intended target. His family members described him as a jack of all trades and a handyman who played blues guitar and liked to drink beer on his front porch.

“Pops wasn’t a bad person,” Lucas’s son Carl told WGN. “He never did nothing to nobody.”

Lucas’s grandnephew wasn’t harmed in the shooting, relatives said.

Across town in Chicago’s Lawndale neighborhood, a 10-year-old boy wasn’t as lucky. Fifth-grader Tavon Tanner was playing with his twin sister on the front porch of their home around 10 p.m. when someone on the street fired nine shots, with at least one round striking the boy in the back, the Tribune reported.


Mother of 10 y/o Tavon Tanner, shot while playing outside: "He's still in critical. He has a breathing tube."

Tanner’s mother, Mellanie Washington, said the boy staggered through the front door, gasping for air and yelling, “I can’t breathe.” His sister held his hand and told him, “Twin don’t leave me” over and over, according to Washington.

Tanner was taken to Mount Sinai Hospital, where doctors removed his spleen and operated on his kidneys and other organs, leaving a bullet inside, Washington said. He remained in critical condition as of Tuesday afternoon, the Tribune reported.


Earlier in the evening in the same part of the city two other people were shot and killed.

Irell Mitchell, 22, was playing basketball in a park in North Lawndale when someone shot at him from a passing car, DNAinfo reported. He died in the hospital from gunshot wounds to the arm and back, police said.

Mitchell’s godfather, Ken Owens, said he had moved out of the neighborhood, but often came back to shoot hoops with his friends.

“I know every time this happens, everyone starts saying ‘Oh, he was a good kid,’ ” Owens said. “But in this case it’s true — he really was a good kid.”

Less than two hours earlier and one mile away, John Hosey Jr., 28, was shot while he was driving, the Chicago Sun Times reported. Police said he was pronounced dead at the hospital.

Other parts of the city weren’t spared the violence either. On Chicago’s Far South Side, a drive-by shooting left one man dead and two others critically injured. Police said Anthony Hatchett, 44, was standing on the sidewalk when someone opened fire out of the window of a passing blue van. Hatchett died in the hospital from a gunshot wound to the head. A 28-year-old and a 30-year-old were struck as well and taken to the hospital, where they were listed in critical condition.

And in West Town, near Chicago’s North Side, a 25-year-old father died after being shot in his car. William Villa was in his SUV stopped at a red light when another vehicle pulled up next to him and someone inside shot him in his head, killing him, according to police, who said Villa was a known gang member.

Law enforcement agencies in metropolitan areas around the country say they’ve seen upticks in homicides and other violent crimes over this point last year. More than two-dozen police departments in large U.S. cities reported that as of June 2016 homicides were up over the first half of last year — in some cases by dozens, according to a Washington Post analysis of law enforcement data.

Orlando led the pack, with a 712 percent increase over last year — a figure driven up dramatically by the Pulse nightclub mass shooting that claimed the lives of 49 clubgoers in June.


Chicago, however, saw the biggest increase in the raw number of homicides. In the first half of 2016, the city counted 316 killings, up from 211 at the same time last year. At this rate, the city could pass 600 homicides by the end of the year, more than any year since 2003, The Post reported.


News of Monday’s violence fell hard on Rev. Tim Williams, who said he knew Irell Mitchell and Tavon Tanner, two of the victims from the West Side shootings.

Williams told the Tribune that he was a mentor to Mitchell through church and had gone to visit his family in the hospital. He said he returned home to see Tanner, who lives next door to him, playing outside, kicking a gate in front of his house. Moments later, bullets hit Tanner in the back.

Williams said his mother had just come inside from choir rehearsal when the shots rang out.

“I walked her to the bedroom and then pa-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta,” Williams told the Tribune. “That could have been my momma.”


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morn...0-more-wounded/


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