DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Josh McCown a top Cowboys' target to replace Kellen Moore

McCown might be the most likeable QB we've had since 99

Delhomme and McCoy were also very likable.

A third round pick, I'd be convinced to consider. Not sure about a 4th. They're supposedly a playoff caliber team. Honestly, I'd be surprised if they offered anything higher than a 5th.

Just my personal opinion, but based on how he comes off in the media, I like McCown more.

If we start Josh McCown at any point this coming year, what does that gain us?

He put up good stats last year, started 8 games, and won 1 game. We are going to have a much worse overall team this year. No team starts as many rookie/2nd year players as we will, and wins.

We will start: (at least possibly)
Erving
Corey Coleman
Shon Coleman
M. Johnson
Duke (3nd down)
Shelton
Cooper
Nassib
Ogbah
Orchard
Campbell

That's 11 possible rookie or 2nd year starters. I suspect that the final number will probably be about 4 on each side of the ball. That's still a tough go, especially when the schemes on both sides of the ball have changed completely for those players who were here last year. Even our special teams are likely to have massive turnover from last year.

There is also no guarantee that a guy like Haden will fully recover from injury and approach what he once was.

Do I expect that McCown would be able to win with this group? Not this year. I do think that the team has a lot of players with potential, but they need time to develop. They will not hit the field this year and be error free. I always have thought that the 2 main causes of big mistakes at key moments are inexperience, or a lack of talent. (or both) We have a very inexperienced team, and even an old QB is not going to change that.

There are going to be a a ton of mistakes early on, and as we have seen, one mistake and the other team can turn a 10 yard completion into a TD, or a blown assignment and our QB suddenly has the ball stripped, and the other team either scores, or, at least, is business right away.

Those instances of "a mistake here, or a mistake there" are going to occur. It would be a miracle if they did not. Those are the plays that cost a team wins. We have seen it over the past decade. One mistake, and the game is blown.

Further, our OL, which had great chemistry when they were all healthy, has been significantly changed. There are going to be huge breakdowns, even under the best of possible outcomes.

I just see little chance of this team winning more than 4 games. Playing a 37 year old QB makes little sense in that case. If we were a potential playoff team, that would be one thing .... but we will not be a playoff team this year. Because of this, it makes no sense at all to play McCown. If RG3 gets hurt, play the rookie that Hue was convinced will be as good as Dalton. Start getting him experience. It just makes no sense to play McCown. The only way it would make sense is if we somehow started out 6-5, and Rg3 got hurt. However, that is extremely unlikely to be the case. I look at our schedule. We open against Philly. OK, we have a shot here. However, then we play:

Baltimore
@ Miami
@ Washington
New England
@Tennessee
@ Cincy
Jets
Dallas
@Baltimore

Those are our 1st 10 games. (including Philly) How many wins are there? I see a possible 2. Maybe. Philly and Tennessee are possible wins. The rest are unlikely. So, we are likely to start the season 1-9 or 2-8, at best. It doesn't matter who the QB is .... that is what it is.

After the 1st 10 games, we play:

Pitt
Giants
Bye (we have a good chance here)
Cincy
@Buffalo
San Diego
@Pitt

The only possible wins here are the Giants or San Diego, and I can see many reasons why we lose all of these final 6 games. I look for improvement of our young players as the year progresses, but 4 games sure looks to me to be the upper level of realistic expectations. Maybe, if the team stays healthy, and we make heavy duty progress, then maybe we steal a game from Cincy, or maybe Pitt rests everyone against us in week 17 and we get one there. However, I don't see McCown as being a guy who really helps change the possible final outcome. I just don't see any upside in playing him. Now, some have said that they don't like what we might get for him, but that pick might be added to another so we can move up. There is value in those 4th-6th round picks in this regard.

For those who want to keep McCown at all costs ..... what is the upside of keeping and possibly playing him?

I agree completely... I personally think McCowen should start instead of rg3 but depending on the price I could easily see him traded,,,, Cowboys are desperate for a back up because they ar a playoff team... If we can pick up a third rounder I say trade him

j/c:

Saying the right things regardless what happens.

On ?







So what is it you want ?


keep him ? Trade him ?


MCCown needs off this team like JM... We need young winning QB's.... not old wish I could of beens....SMH !!!!


It amazes me ..people want to keep Josh on this team...Beat down like a dog..so you purrr like a kitty ..instead of being able to bark...

McCown is done.... Hey remember when Weeden went to Dallas ? Yeah he was going to prove just how good he was... and he did what ?

Just clicking here Browns fans.... Say bye to MCCown... dear god if I have to watch him play on Sundays... I will Vomit !!!!!

Sorry if I wasn't clear... I personally think McCowen is a safer bet at qb than rg3 but if we get a good offer for him I'm perfectly fine with trading him. This team isn't doing squat this year... I'm fine with trading an aged asset to get some draft picks if they are high enough.... If we go crap offer then keep him and let him compete for the starting role.

I expect this team to win about 4 games with or without josh... I don't care if we take him or not... Personally I think we have a pack of average to below average qbs... If Cowboys want to give us a decent pick for one then trade him

Trading Josh McCown to the Cowboys doesn't make enough sense for the Browns to do it


When you list the pluses and minuses of the Browns trading Josh McCown to the Dallas Cowboys, the minuses far outnumber the pluses.

Here is why the Browns should let this opportunity pass them by and not provide the Cowboys a solution to their desperate need for a backup quarterback to Tony Romo.

The pluses of trading McCown

1. The Browns’ starting job is earmarked for Robert Griffin III. The offense is being tailored for Griffin’s athletic skill set and coach Hue Jackson is confident that Griffin will come through for him. The only way McCown is going to play is if Griffin misses time with an injury. Thus, a trade would net something in return for a player who conceivably may not play much anyway.

2. Trading McCown would free up reps for the coaches to accelerate the growth of rookie Cody Kessler, who isn’t getting a lot of time right now. If Kessler doesn’t prove he’s worth of No. 2 status, Austin Davis could fill the role until the rookie is ready. Remember, if Griffin doesn’t get hurt, Davis could hold the clipboard just as well as McCown on game days.

The minuses of trading McCown

1. Griffin’s injury history strongly suggests he will miss some time during the long season, especially given the fact Jackson is planning to use Griffin’s running ability as an element of the offense. Even if Griffin doesn’t average eight runs a game – as he did in his one good year as a rookie in 2012 – Jackson realizes the threat of Griffin running helps his offense immensely. So there needs to be some planned runs, as well as take-offs when a pass play breaks down, increasing the risk of some injury down the road.

2. Besides the risk of injury, Griffin’s overall projected performance in Jackson’s offense is an unknown. He didn’t play a single down last year, and was not very good the two years before that. He was 5-10 as the starter for the Redskins after his rookie year. If Jackson isn’t successful in reviving Griffin’s game to an acceptable, respectable level, McCown is the only one left to keep the Browns from an offensive disaster.

3. What the Cowboys would be willing to give up probably wouldn’t be worth the risk of losing McCown. What’s the value of a 37-year-old quarterback who has won 2 of 19 starts for two teams the past two years? It’s probably higher for the Cowboys, in their situation, then for a typical team needing a backup. But I can’t see it being more than a fourth-round pick. The return probably would be tied to conditions such as number of starts and ultimately could be lower than a fourth.

4. Trading McCown and then being left with an uncertain roster of quarterbacks would send a bad message to the rest of the veterans remaining in the locker room. Keeping McCown would lessen the appearance of not caring about the win total this year. No matter McCown’s record as a starter over the past two years, he has tremendous respect among the veteran players.

McCown is in a strange position. You would think he would be in favor of a trade to Dallas. He grew up in Texas and idolized Cowboys great Roger Staubach. The chances of him starting games this year probably are great with Dallas, because of Romo’s recent injury history and the fact the Cowboys consider themselves playoff contenders.

McCown probably could force the issue and demand a trade. The Browns wouldn’t want an unhappy player, especially at the quarterback position. But I believe McCown when he says, “For me, my job and my heart and is here and doing everything I can to help the Cleveland Browns do good.”

One of the things that appeals to him here is the new coaching staff. McCown aspires to coaching after his playing days are over, and he has reveled in soaking up the experience of Jackson and top offensive assistant Pep Hamilton.

Trading McCown would make more sense for the Browns if they needed to clear up salary room. But they are among the leaders, once again, in salary cap space and his $4.375 million salary and approximate $5 million cap number simply is not a problem.

I can’t see the value in trading McCown. If I were the Browns, I would try to move Austin Davis instead.

ESPN - Grossi

I'll add one more thing to the pluses of keeping McCown, a quote from his presser, "My role is to go out and play as good a football as I can and help the guys around me do that as well."

...help the guys around me do that as well."
...help the guys around me do that as well."
...help the guys around me do that as well."

We're not going to win much anyway so I don't value McCown so much as to how he effects our win total. I value him as helping the young guys. Everyone on the offense would benefit from having a veteran who knows the offense running the team on the field rather than a never-will-be guy like Davis or heaven forbid Kessler.

If we've got four rookies/second-year players on offense how bad would it be for them to have a QB who's as lost as they are? McCown would bring leadership, stability and security to the offense during it's youth movement. If RGIII goes down I shudder to think of the cluster-muck the offense would be with one of our other backups.

If we trade McCown on the basis of us not winning many games anyway we also shoot ourselves in the foot on the basis of the offense progressing as we hope it does with our starting QB. If RGIII doesn't get injured then McCown is out of the picture other than daily practices where he can help. But if we lose our starter, without McCown we're waiting for next year to really develop our young guys.

Wow. I must say, I disagree with you on this.

McCown is one of the few players in the league that is a better teammate than a player. He is worth keeping him around. However if he wanted to go to Dallas I would ago accommodate him and work things out.

This should be in the minuses as well:



What's his value to this team? Seriously. If RG3 is not the QB we hope he can be, then we have to hope that Kessler will be ..... but we will almost certainly draft a QB at the top of next year's draft. If we play McCown in the event of an RG3 injury, then what do we learn? That he is a decent QB, who is not good enough to win games on this team? How does that help us, either next year, or into the future? If RG3 goes down, then we should be looking at one of the veteran QBs as a game or 2 fill in at best, while we prep Kessler to start. If we have to start a veteran QB for a game or 2, in the event of injury, then does it really matter if that QB is McCown, or Davis?

Davis had a solid year in St Louis prior to joining us. He dealt with so-so receivers in his time in St Louis. He's probably about as good an option for this team as McCown is. When the possibility of a draft pick for McCown is added to the equation, then it makes no sense to hold on to him. That's MHO, anyway.

If you're the Cowboys and Kellen Moore is your backup to the increasingly brittle Tony Romo ... well, I hate to tell you, but your situation was already "desperate". Now its just a little worse. You get a sense of how badly Manziel blew it by not simply keeping his name out of the headlines this past offseason. If he had, Jerruh would have been all over him. As it is, he might still get a call, along with a few other FA QBs like Tarvaris Jackson, TJ Yates, Thaddeus Lewis, Michael Vick, Matt Flynn, etc.

There was also reports of Josh Freeman being on their radar. It's pretty funny to see the same names being recycled year after year at the QB spot. It's really a haves and have nots position.

As for the Browns, I would not part with McCown for any less than a king's ransom - in this case, a 2nd round pick. And Dallas is not going to do that. You CANNOT keep preaching about changing the culture of losing when your actions say that you're okay with another 3-13 season. Players know BS when they hear it.

A couple of things:

Who is saying to keep McCown at all costs? Some of us have said that we would trade him if we could get a 2nd or a 3rd. Maybe even a 4th.

A 5th --7th round pick likely won't make the team.

I think McCown's professionalism is more important that a guy who won't make the team. RGIII has had issues w/his teammates and coaches in the past. He has been a "me" guy. Kessler is young. Davis endured the Manziel debacle last year. That group needs someone who is a true pro.

Also, I don't get how people are talking about Dallas as a playoff team and a possible Super Bowl team. They won four games last year. Their defense is absolutely awful. Who are their WRs after Dez? When hasn't that team gagged in a meaningful game? They get a lot of hype, but let's face it.........they are overrated by too many.

This.

All of it.

Not to pick on you and your thinking on this McCown issue (I respect your opinions on most issues) but I'm not sure you can make this statement at this point in time is valid. It may prove to be, but it also may not. In fact, I believe it may end up being a much better team this year, certainly better coached. Whether that translates into more wins or not, who knows? But as dismal as it may seem to us, I can't believe the coaches and the players are going into this with that mentality. I don't see the advantage of weakening our team, strengthening the Boys' team unless the trade is highly beneficial to us. We'll have to see what (if any) the term are before we know whether a trade makes sense. IMHO



As far as this goes, the team was so dysfunctional and played so poorly last year that I don't believe you can hang all those losses on him. He played fairly well when healthy and given the opportunity to throw.

McCown, in my opinion, is an unsung hero and what he brings to the Browns is significant. I would definitely make a move if the Cowboys offered us a 3rd. I doubt they would but, I certainly wouldn't take a 5th round for him. I would probably discuss further about a 4th.

Thing is he will be a solid 2nd string who most likely will see action given RG3's history. However, even if he doesn't see any action because RG3 manages to stay healthy his work behind the scenes with both RG3 and Kessler will be incredibly beneficial. The dude is a warrior, he has seen it all and can work with the development of both QB's. Honestly, I think he brings much value to our team.

What I do find quite surprising is there isn't talk of Austin Davis going to Dallas. I would entertain these discussions over McCown. Why woudn't this be considered? Has his stock dropped *that* much?

'Report: Browns' price for Josh McCown too steep for Cowboys — for now'

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ss...art_river_index

By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com on August 04, 2016 at 7:34 PM, updated August 04, 2016 at 7:37 PM

CLEVELAND, Ohio — The Browns' asking price for quarterback Josh McCown is too steep for the Cowboys for now, according to a report.

The two clubs talked trade on Thursday, but the Cowboys' rejected the Browns' proposal, according to ESPN's Ed Werder.

Werder reported that the Browns prefer to keep McCown and attached a high price, one that the Cowboys aren't willing to pay at this time.

But as always in these situations, things could change at a moment's notice. If some of the Cowboys' other options fall through, they might be willing to give the Browns what they want. Other names that have surfaced in the search to replace Kellen Moore (broken fibula) include Mike Glennon, Michael Vick and Josh Freeman.

The Browns, in the mode of stockpiling picks, are likely seeking at least a third- or fourth-round pick for McCown, a 14th-year pro.

On Thursday, McCown, 37, made it clear that he wants to remain a Brown, despite the fact he grew up a Cowboys fan.

"Obviously the Cowboys, if you grew up in Texas, is near and dear to everybody's heart,'' McCown said. "But once you cross over into the business portion of this life, those allegiances kind of fly out the window and you have a job to do.

"For me, my job and my heart is here and doing everything I can to help the Cleveland Browns be good. So that's what I'm about. And like I've told you guys before, you spend five minutes in this city and it's easy to be all-in, because of how the people feel about this team.''

Likewise, the Browns are happy he's still here and that he wants to remain with the team. McCown has had a tremendous impact on Robert Griffin III, both from a leadership and football standpoint. He's also mentored backup quarterbacks Cody Kessler and Austin Davis, and just about everyone else on the team.

"There's nothing to it as far as we're concerned,'' coach Hue Jackson said after practice. "I've heard about it. But I feel good that he's here. He's a Cleveland Brown, and I know nothing else about the other part of it."

Jackson was happy to hear that McCown is eager to remain in Cleveland and not clamoring to play for his hometown team, where most of his extended family lives. Had McCown pushed for the trade, the Browns might have tried to accommodate him.

"Hopefully we've created an environment for all of our players to really want to be here whether it's in the quarterback room, running back, tight end, defensive backs, anywhere because again I think this is a tremendous opportunity for any football player with our ownership, with Dee and Jimmy (Haslam) and Sashi (Brown) and the rest of our executive group and myself. I would hope that this is somewhere that a lot of players want to be and want to stay."

The Browns like McCown for more than just his mentorship ability. If Robert Griffin III gets injured, he can step in and run the offense effectively.

Last season, he finished 14th in the NFL with a 93.3 rating before a season-ending broken collarbone. He became the first Browns quarterback to throw for 300 yards in three straight games, and set the single game club record with 457 yards passing.

He went 1-7 on a horrible Browns team, but wasn't the reason they lost. He had no running game to speak of for the first 12 games, and an underperforming defense.

But the Browns are also high on third-round pick Cody Kessler, and if they feel he's ready to play, they might be more willing to part with McCown. The problem is, they won't know for sure how prepared he is until he sees significant action in a preseason game. The first one is Aug. 12 in Green Bay.

"Man, they're working their tails off and they're improving,'' McCown said of Kessler and Davis. "Especially for Cody. Austin's been through it now a few times where he's learning offenses but they're asking all the right questions. What you want to see is some consistent improvement every day and you certainly see that with those two guys for sure.''

The Browns, under no pressure to deal McCown, might also get a better offer later in the preseason or early in the season if a starter goes down. So there's no reason to settle for less than their asking price at this point.

Good. I'd keep the price as high as I could. We hold all of the leverage.

would be crazy if the Eagles traded them Chase Daniel.

keep McCown for two years. Youth isn't everything in the NFL. Not sure of RG's skills or his injury/health issues. Mcown is no help in Dallas for us. Send Kessler.

This team will be incredibly young. We will have somewhere between 8 and 11 rookie or 2nd year starters. All of our 2nd year players will be learning a completely new system. That kind of team simply does not win very often in the NFL. I also look at our schedule and struggle to see where the wins come from.

As far as the draft pick compensation, we used lower draft picks to move around the board in this latest draft. Also, just because we maybe get a 5th round pick for someone doesn't automatically mean that we will automatically pick a player who will not make, and help this team.

I think that people overestimate the impact McCown has on this team. We won 3 games last year, and 2 of those were won by Manziel.

We'll see what happens, but my poor, achy guy tells me that McCown will not be on this team come opening day.

I agree the team is inexperienced, and I don't have any rose colored expectations other than I believe Hue will have them playing at a high level with intensity. If that's the case, then anything can happen.

As far as McCown's value, I'd much rather have him there as insurance than Davis or Kessler. As of right now, the Browns seem to agree. We'll see if circumstances change to the point where the asking price becomes more palatable to the Boys.

Veteran QB leadership is more valuable to the Brown's than a 3rd rd draft pick right now. Otherwise the Cowboys wouldn't want him either.

The Cowboys want him because their team went in the tank last year when Romo got hurt because they had to go with the craptastic trio of Cassel, Weeden, and Moore.

Veteran QB leadership is important if the guy is playing. McCown should not be playing. If we got a third round pick for him I'd be ecstatic.

Does Dallas have a better option trade-wise or FA than McCown? I'd probably say not right now.

Nothing better than they had last year. They might be able to get someone better than the current available guys during roster cuts, but not much better. The only QBs that get cut are the Austin Davis types.

Browns not trading McCown
The Dallas Cowboys have been reportedly interested in acquiring backup quarterback Josh McCown from the Cleveland Browns after Kellen Moore suffered a broken ankle, but Browns head coach Hue Jackson says the team isn't going to trade McCown.


NFL Training Camp News & Rumors: Browns Not Trading McCown, Freeman To Cowboys & More
By Brian Rauf August 5, 2016
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Training camps are now in full swing, and several are filling out their rosters by signing veteran free agents. There is also excitement for the upcoming preseason, which starts on Sunday with the Hall of Fame Game between the Indianapolis Colts and Green Bay Packers. Check out the latest NFL news and rumors below.

Browns not trading McCown
The Dallas Cowboys have been reportedly interested in acquiring backup quarterback Josh McCown from the Cleveland Browns after Kellen Moore suffered a broken ankle, but Browns head coach Hue Jackson says the team isn't going to trade McCown.

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“I have no thoughts, whatsoever,” Jackson told reporters on Thursday. “You said it, it’s rumor. There is nothing to it as far as we’re concerned. I’ve heard about it, obviously I have, but I feel good that he’s here. He’s a Cleveland Brown and I know nothing else about the other part of it. I would think I would know exactly what’s going on. I feel very good about where we are and what we’re doing, and right now, there’s nothing to report or talk about.

“I hope we’ve created an environment for all of our players to really want to be here, whether it’s in the quarterback room, running back, tight end, defensive backs, anywhere. I think this is a tremendous opportunity for any football player. With our ownership with Dee and Jimmy [Haslam] and [executive V.P. of football operations] Sashi [Brown], the rest of our executive group and myself, I would hope that this is somewhere where a lot of players want to be and want to stay.”

http://www.chatsports.com/nfl/a/nfl-trai...boys-more-30380

I didnt think Hue said that McCown wouldn't be traded ... just that he had no thoughts on rumors

This.

Unless we get a seller's price on him, he's worth more to the team; and you can't put a price on his leadership with such a young team

For once we hold all the cards in this one, fleece them or no deal

jc -

Reading between the lines of everything Hue has said since he's been here, I think he finds himself stuck between a rock and a hard place...

--Hue's initial comments about McCown weren't very flattering. Hue gets it that you can't win in this league without a QB. And you can't win long term if that QB isn't young. He appeared to have very little use for McCown upon his arrival.

--In typical McCown fashion, he's won Hue over and surprised him with his professionalism and willingness to help the other guys. He probably surprised Hue a bit with his play as well.

--But he's not the future ...even if he came in and won 8 straight games, it's short lived and Hue knows they need to find a long term answer. McCown playing stands in the way of that. But he's just exceeded expectations in all the intangible ways that make the decision to part with him harder. And if Hue feels like Kessler has a shot to be the guy and McCown's influence has been invaluable then what do you do.

--And if the Cowboys are willing to part with a third how do you pass that up? Plenty of pluses on both sides of the ledger if the offer becomes that good. If the Cowboys up their offer I think this could be a really big decision for the Browns.

If the Cowboys offer their 3rd I give up McCown in a heartbeat. I can't see them offering more than a conditional 5th rounder. McCown can't be viewed as more than a 1 year stop gap for an injured QB

I like McCown and want him to stay, but I agree here, you can't pass that up. I just don't think the Cowboys are willing to give up a 3rd.