DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2016 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 13 Falcons 24 Postgame Thoughts

Not sure I can recall when it was ever good.

metcalf a few times?

byner?

LOL, hey I was trying to make sense of there not being a drop off with JT out... lol

Oh, I wasn't saying that. Just potential replacement in the future. Not yet.

I've never been in favor of trading Joe. Just saying the guy showed potential and I think he could possibly develop into Joe Thomas' Replacement. The guy has played 9 seasons already. Going on season 10. And he's never missed a game.

At some point we have to figure Joe Thomas might be on his way out

Browns' Offensive Snap Counts and Stats vs. Falcons

4


Looking at the offensive snap counts in the Browns' 24-13 loss to the Falcons.

By Chris Pokorny @DawgsByNature Aug 19, 2016, 7:21p

Below, we analyze the snap counts on offense for the Cleveland Browns' first preseason game against the Atlanta Falcons.


Quarterback

Pos Player Plays % Stats
QB Robert Griffin III 24 56% 6-of-8 (75.0%) for 96 yards, 2 TD. 3 carries, 36 yards.
QB Josh McCown 13 30% 4-of-7 (57.1%) for 48 yards. 1 carry, 0 yards.
QB Cody Kessler 6 14% 2-of-3 (66.6%) for 10 yards.

Even though the Browns' offense had more success, they only ran 40 plays on offense, which is even less than last week's low number. Robert Griffin III looked very comfortable throwing the deep ball again, and his touch pass to Gary Barnidge was great to see too because that was the type of pass he kept trying to complete the one day I went to camp, and he kept overshooting it. Griffin looked very fast when he took off, and made the right decision to slide even though he had some more room. If it were a regular season game, I wonder if he would've tried to take a hit?


Running Back

Pos Player Plays % Stats
RB Isaiah Crowell 15 35% 7 carries, 28 yards, 4.0 avg.
RB Terrell Watson 10 23% 4 carries, 28 yards, 7.0 avg. 2 catches, 12 yards (2 targets).
RB Duke Johnson 9 21% 3 carries, 6 yards, 2.0 avg. 2 catches, 10 yards (3 targets).
RB Raheem Mostert 9 21% 2 carries, 4 yards, 2.0 avg. 1 catch, 7 yards (1 target).
RB Malcolm Johnson 6 14% No stats registered.
RB Robert Hughes 2 5% No stats registered.

If the Browns are able to get teams respecting the receivers and the threat of Griffin running, then Isaiah Crowell is going to have a breakout season. I'm glad we got to see Terrell Watson showcase some of his power, but I'm not sure how much value he has on the roster when Crowell and Duke Johnson are the clear top-two backs. I don't think we're going to carry a fullback this year.


Wide Receiver

Pos Player Plays % Stats
WR Rashard Higgins 22 51% 1 catch, 10 yards (1 target).
WR Terrelle Pryor 19 44% 1 catch, 50 yards (2 targets). 1 TD.
WR Taylor Gabriel 15 35% No stats registered.
WR Marlon Moore 14 33% No stats registered.
WR Darius Jennings 13 30% No stats registered.
WR Jordan Payton 10 23% 1 catch, 3 yards (3 targets).
WR Ed Eagan
3 7% No stats registered.

With so few offensive plays, these receivers on the back-end of the depth chart aren't getting a chance to shine. Jordan Payton did show off his hands on a sideline catch, but he didn't have both feet in bounds (not his fault). Knowing that Corey Coleman, Josh Gordon, andAndrew Hawkins are on their way back, it can't feel good if you finished the game with "no stats registered" in a game that should've been a chance for you to shine.


Tight End

Pos Player Plays % Stats
TE Gary Barnidge 24 56% 2 catches, 26 yards (2 targets). 1 TD.
TE Randall Telfer 21 49% 1 catch, 30 yards (1 target).
TE Connor Hamlett 14 33% 0 catches (2 targets).
TE J.P Holtz 4 9% 1 catch, 6 yards (1 target).
TE E.J. Bibbs 2 5% No stats registered.

Once upon a time, before the first preseason game, Connor Hamlett was the talk of camp. Since then, he caught a nullified touchdown in the first game (no one was near him, so it's not like it was a fantastic play), and against Atlanta, he dropped a pass in the red zone and then wasn't close to catching a Josh McCown fade route on fourth down. Meanwhile, Randall Telfer caught a 30-yard pass downfield and received a good amount of reps. I can't explain whyE.J. Bibbs is getting so little playing time; all I can surmise is that I'm just in love with the guy but the coaching staff just isn't interested.


Offensive Line

Pos Player Plays % Stats
OG Spencer Drango 28 65%
C
Austin Pasztor 25 58%
OT Joel Bitonio 24 56%
OT John Greco 24 56%
OT Cameron Erving 24 56%
OT Alvin Bailey 19 44%
OT Garth Gerhart 19 44%
OT
Kaleb Johnson 19 44%
OG Shon Coleman 18 42%
C Dan France 17 40%

Browns quarterbacks were sacked two times and hit five times. We're going to have a lot of discussions about Cameron Erving. I think he's been pretty stable from a blocking perspective at center, and that's all we can really hope for when trying to replace a guy like Alex Mack. The question is that if Garth Gerhart is only a little less talented of a blocker as Erving but doesn'tsnap the ball way over the QB's head, does that warrant a change in the lineup? A snap like that can flip a game from a win to a loss in an instant, not to mention risking an injury to your quarterback. Dan France started at left tackle for Joe Thomas and suffered an early hand injury.

http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2016/8/...ats-vs-falcons

Browns' Defensive Snap Counts and Stats vs. Falcons

3


Looking at the defensive snap counts in the Browns' 24-13 loss to the Falcons.


By Chris Pokorny @DawgsByNature Aug 19, 2016, 7:50p
Below, we analyze the snap counts on defense for the Cleveland Browns' first preseason game against the Atlanta Falcons.


Defensive Line

Pos Player Plays % Stats
DL Emmanuel Ogbah 49
58%
1 tackle (1 combined).
DL Carl Nassib 43
51% 1 tackle (1 combined). 1 sack, 1 FF, 1 FR, 1 pass defended.
DL Xavier Cooper 34
40% 2 tackles (2 combined).
DL Jamie Meder 32
38% 1 tackle, 1 assist (2 combined).
DL Danny Shelton 29
35% 1 tackle (1 combined).
DL Armonty Bryant 21
25% 1 tackle (1 combined). 1 TFL.
DL Chigbo Anunoby 21
25% 3 tackles (3 combined).
DL Nick Hayden 19
23% 1 tackle (1 combined). 1 TFL.
DL Kenton Adeyemi 16
19% 1 assist (1 combined). 0.5 sacks, 1 QH.
DL Jason Neill 7
8% 1 tackle, 1 assist (2 combined).

Danny Shelton saw some reps in the second half (beyond his first-team reps), which was a little interesting. Emmanuel Ogbah was a bit less visible this week, despite having the most snaps, but the same can't be said for Carl Nassib. Even though Nassib only had one tackle, he had several disruptive plays. He had a second sack where he was unblocked off the edge on third down, but it was wiped away due to a Justin Gilbert penalty.


Outside Linebacker

Pos Player Plays % Stats
OLB Cam Johnson 36
43%
2 tackles, 1 assist (3 combined). 0.5 sacks, 3 QH.
OLB Paul Kruger 27
32% 1 assist (1 combined).
OLB Joe Schobert 26
31% 1 QH, 1 pass defended.
OLB Nate Orchard 26
31% 1 tackle (1 combined).
OLB Barkevious Mingo 23
27% 2 tackles, 2 assists (4 combined). 1 TFL, 1 pass defended.

Cam Johnson has quietly put together two solid football games, including three quarterback hits against Atlanta. He's probably going to make this team, and it could be in favor ofBarkevious Mingo. I'm still holding out hope for Mingo to be effectively weaponized by Ray Horton, but he seemed to have a demotion on the depth chart this week. Despite that, he had a good spurt once he did enter the game.


Inside Linebacker

Pos Player Plays % Stats
ILB Dominique Alexander 34
40%
6 tackles (6 combined).
ILB Demario Davis 27
32% 1 tackle, 2 assists (3 combined).
ILB Christian Kirksey 26
31% 4 tackles (4 combined).
ILB Justin Tuggle 26
31% No stats registered.
ILB Scooby Wright 16
19% 1 tackle (1 combined).
ILB Tank Carder 15
18% 2 tackles (2 combined).

Demario Davis can lay the big hit. Tank Carder saw the fewest snaps, but had a couple of nice plays, one in pursuit on a run to the edge, and the other on nearly deflecting a pass.Dominique Alexander led the team with six tackles, but he's probably still more of a practice squad candidate. It's hard to get a pulse on what the staff thinks of Scooby Wright so far.


Safety

Pos Player Plays % Stats
S Derrick Kindred 34
40%
6 tackles (6 combined).
S Rahim Moore 31
37% 3 tackles (3 combined).
S Jordan Poyer 26
31% 4 tackles (4 combined).
S Pierre Desir 25
30% 2 tackles (2 combined).
S Ibraheim Campbell 24
29% 1 tackle (1 combined).
S Sean Baker 19
23% 2 tackles, 1 assist (3 combined). 1 pass defended.
S Don Jones 7
8% 1 tackle (1 combined).
S Tim Scott 7
8% No stats registered.

It was a rough game for Rahim Moore. Although he brought a physical presence, he completely whiffed on a sideline run that made you go, "how did he not just shove the guy out of bounds?" The rest of the safeties looked pretty good, and I think this was the best positional unit of the game on defense.


Cornerback

Pos Player Plays % Stats
CB Tracy Howard 46
55%
2 tackles (2 combined).
CB Justin Gilbert 39
46% 2 tackles (2 combined). 1 pass defended.
CB Charles Gaines 30
36% 1 tackle (1 combined).
CB Jamar Taylor 29
35% 2 tackles (2 combined). 1 pass defended.
CB Tramon Williams 27
32% 1 pass defended.
CB Eric Patterson 20
24% 2 tackles (2 combined).
CB Mikell Everette 7
8% 1 tackle (1 combined).

Like Mingo, I keep rooting for Justin Gilbert to be better because it would salvage something after so many first-round failures. He missed a tackle on the edge on a run play, which led to a touchdown, and he had an illegal contact penalty. He also broke up a pass. We haven't seen him tested deep yet, though, which is often where he can get lost. Jamar Taylor had some good plays, but also allowed his receiver to get a good inside track a couple of times.

http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2016/8/...ats-vs-falcons

I like nassib!, he finds the football.

I watched the 1st half today.
I agree with Vers about tank cardale, as well as Gilbert and Shelton, who looked solid Imo
.
Our secondary looked sloppy as hell, griffin looked good. Duke also.

Gilbert is another bust, let's move on from him. Coons is gettin swept off the porch by momma gump's broom. Pasztor looked solid, no surprise there

If we had managed to keep Schwartz, then I think that Thomas would have been on the move ...... but I just can't see the team deciding to replace their starting Center and both starting Tackles.

hmm...

WR Payton looked good, good hands.

OLB Nassib is real so far...i really like the kid

OLB Ogbah expected more

RGIII better than I expected, but hoped for with his arm...nice 22 yard gain as well

OL needs improvement...better push for the power run

RB Mostert...I'm liking his speed

CB Jamar Taylor looks good reacts fast

ILB Tank Carder looks hyper and focused

NT Meder looks better than Shelton. (in my opinion)

WR Pryor much better than I expected

oh yeah or run defense is still bad

Sheldon is weak and still overweight. FAT isn't strong and he's fat. Needs to lose another 30 at least and turn the rest into muscle. In the meantime he needs to sit his fat ass on the bench and let someone else start.

Nassib is quickly becoming my favorite rookie. Of course we haven't seen Coleman yet. That's worrisome. He needs to get out there and get some reps with the ones.... we need him to be our #1 opposite Pryor.

Pryor looked good. I was impressed. He blasted right past a probowl corner like he wasn't even there.... If a couple of the other rookies can become solid pros our problems at the position are over. Sure is nice having such a great WR coach on the staff.

RG3 looked good again. He is definately a work in progress and has a long was to go, but he seems to be doing that and as long as he's busting ass working on his game we can't ask for more. Seems like that was a good move pickng him up. At least so far....

JT's back has me very worried. Having a bad back myself I know how quickly that can go from a nagging injury to full on disability. Here's hoping he heals quickly and thoroughly.

Someboday better get Cam Erving's head out of his kooloo. He is not impressing. He's all over the place on his shotgun snaps and his blocking is mediocre at best. Looking like another major problem this year.....

Yes, Vers I think Gilbert could get cut. Wouldn't surprise me if he doesn't make it past FIRST cuts. Hell after this game I'd cut him now. He's a bust. Time to move on.....

I continue to wait for Crow to either break a tackle or make a play on his own

Thanks for posting this and clarifying some things that were being questioned.

How Browns' Danny Shelton fared against Alex Mack and what to do about that horrible tackling


By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com
August 19, 2016 at 7:29 PM, updated August 19, 2016 at 8:07 PM

CLEVELAND, Ohio — Alex Mack's homecoming to FirstEnergy Stadium was a resounding success for the three-time Pro Bowler, and not so much for Browns nosetackle Danny Shelton.

Shelton, the Browns' first-round pick (No. 12) last year, was stonewalled by Mack. He failed to pop on the TV screen or on the stat sheet, even against Mack's backup. When his almost three quarters of play were over, he had one tackle to show for it. Mack, when on the field, not only prevented Shelton from penetrating, he drove him back several times.

Shelton, who says he shed 30 pounds this year, played with his usual high motor, but the effort didn't result in any big plays or tackles for loss. Former Browns guard Jason Pinkston tweeted "Mack did whatever he wanted to Shelton.''

When asked about that on his conference call Friday, head coach Hue Jackson said "(Pinkston's) entitled to his opinion. And I respect it, but I don't get into what everybody else says.''

Shelton was still playing when many of the starters were finished, but Jackson said it wasn't because he's disappointed in the Washington product.

"Naw, that was truly about just looking at different combinations,'' he said. "As I've said all training camp, we're going to continue to look at different combinations of guys out there playing with different players to see what gives us a good look."

Jackson stressed that the woeful run defense wasn't all on the man in the middle — especially not against a wide-zone blocking scheme.

"It's about our defense, our unit," he said. "Our unit needs to play better. We need to tackle better. We need to make sure we get in the right spots and everybody do their job better. I don't think it's just about one guy."

The Browns surrendered 78 yards rushing in the first half, 224 overall. They allowed TD runs of 19 and 32 yards.

"I'm not going to say it's a consistent problem, but obviously it's a sore thumb right now,'' Jackson said of the tackling. "We need to work through it.''

He was asked if all the mixing and matching on defense isn't a detriment. The Browns haven't yet settled on their starting base defense.

"Some of that is true, but at the same time, this is the time to evaluate and find out what's going to be the best for us as we get ready for the season and I think our first defense early in the game there are some things we did better,'' he said. "In the second half obviously with some of the younger guys it wasn't as good as it could be, but again, overall we've got to tackle better. We've got to do some of the fundamental things better and that's going to be our charge this week.''

He said the 'everything goes' siren periods in camp have still been beneficial.

"I'm glad I did have them because it showed me some things that I know we need to continue to work on and that was needed at that time,'' he said. "We just need to do a better job of taking the proper angles and wrapping up and finishing our tackles.''

Rookie pass-rusher Carl Nassib impressed, and the Browns will play their best tacklers.

As for Shelton, most nose tackles struggle again Mack, one of the NFL's premier centers. But if he continues to get stonewalled, the Browns will have to roll other players in to make more of an impact.

Jason Pinkston ✔@JasonPinkstonOL
Mack did whatever he wanted to Shelton

2:40 PM - 19 Aug 2016

The Browns are looking for big things from Shelton, and hope he can be an every-down player.

"I told Danny he could change the way we play defense himself just by buying in, getting himself in great condition and playing with a hot motor,'' defensive line coach Robert Nunn said recently. "He's got a different skill set than most people in this league. He's such a powerful man. He's a big body who has a lot of quickness and power.''

He just has to translate that into production.

link

Were you speaking into a microphone on that one LOL

In this league you either make plays or you dont.
Theres no grey area
Shelton is having no impact what so ever.
He's talented.
But he has very little temperament play that position.
He Has no AGGRESSION what so ever

This next pre-season matchup could be very telling...

-Imo the run defense isn't going to be as bad as it has appeared thus far in preseason. (and before someone talks this comments and runs to wild assumptions let me add that saying they'll be better then they've been does not mean that I'm saying they will be good in the regular season)

o they are mixing and matching personnel...for example the 2nd unit base 34 DL has often included Ogbah and Nassib neither of which have the size to play 34 5-tech DE right now,

o in the 3rd match-up the "starting" personnel will be more set and play together longer. Hopefully this means that Ogbah will finally play OLB with the starting unit making the starting front 5:

ROLB-Ogbah...DE-Hughes--NT Shelton--DE--Cooper/Meder--LOLB Kruger

The 5 above make for a better run stopping unit then they've fielded thus far, I hope they do it.

Questions--

Will the injured dude come back?

Will we see Joe Haden? Will we see Josh?

Will we finally see the starting receiving corps (Coleman, Pryor and Hawk) on the field together and be able to evaluate Ricardo?

I agree with what you said here spirit but Gilbert won't be cut would be my best guess. The thing your missing is that Gilbert is a unbelievable athlete he just has an empty head. If he can concur his inner stupidity he can be a dominate CB. You just don't give up so easily on that gifted a player.

Most coaches have ego's too guaranteed they think they can fix him, and who knows maybe they can?

So tackling, coverage, stopping the run ... these are not part of a vanilla defense?

j/c

Was Mingo playing on the inside? I realize he was playing with the threes, but he looked really good playing in space. Maybe he's found his home? I didn't see where he was lined up, just the plays he made, and it looked like he was running free. Can someone tell me if he was lined up at ILB?

Yep he's been getting reps at ILB. Let's face it, unfortunately his speed seems to only shine when he's covering someone.

I'm not sure he makes the team.

They're trying anything with Mingo and Desir .. just because they're so athletic ... which usually means they are going to be cut

I dunno, Gilbert can tackle, but he may have, as Deion Sanders used to say, "made a business decision."

You'd obviously like to see him make the tackle on the TD run, but it is a "meaningless" pre-season game. If he had attempted to make the tackle better, he probably would have hurt himself having our luck.

I might try to watch him in coverage closer on another play through. Not sure how good an indicator I'll be able to get with the soft coverage I remember seeing.

I don't know. His hips aren't all that good. He is kinda stiff when he has to turn and run. He doesn't come out of breaks well.

I think his athleticism fits better at FS, but the problem is that he doesn't like to tackle. He is a horrible tackler and that would be a huge no-no at that position.

the more I watch Gilbert the less I like him ... and that's saying a lot

He does nothing well.

I'm not sure I agree with your 'business decision' idea.

But either way a player in Gilbert's position doesn't have that leeway. Gilbert needs to bring it 100% and then some...he's fighting for a starting job and maybe his spot on the team

Just the spot of the team I am afraid.

Troy Aikman brought up Sanders during the Cowboys game apparently and I saw an article on it earlier. (Apparently it was an old article, not sure why I ran into it today)

Link

It's so hard to figure out how to interpret games that don't count and aren't game planned for like normal. I'd like to see more out of Gilbert, but none of the other CBs showed me much either. Patterson and Taylor are the only ones that I recall anything positive from. How many do you think we'll keep?

i thought Shelton played pretty well. Mack had the left guard helping him early and often. Shelton drove him back on a few occasions and there wasnt much room for anything in the middle when Shelton was in the game.

The big problem is our linebackers suck ass. People blame Gilbert for missing the tackle when he tried to trip the RB but what the hell was davis doing on that play. Davis doesnt find his way through any clutter, he trips on anything around him. OO and Kruger is about as effective as a traffic cone when it comes to sealing the edge.

The linebackers that have impressed me has been Nassib and no one else. Alexenader and Mingo frankly have been everybit as effective as DAvis and Kirksey.

At this point i would probably just play 6 dbs all the time. Kirksey and Campbell tackle better than any backer outside of Nassib anyway.

And as scary as our defense is in a bad way, our offense is even more scary in a good way. Potential is there to do some great things this year.

He may not have any NFL business if he keeps playing like he has.

If we cut him, another team might pick him up .... but he has played really poorly here, so it's unlikely that anyone will look at him as much more than a deep extra CB.

Also, we picked up that failed CB from the Dolphins, and he looks pretty good with our coaching. I think that teams would look at that too.

I also want to add that teams often think that they can fix technique and such .... but attitude and commitment are hard to "fix" at this level. It getting millions of dollars didn't get Gilbert to commit 100% to being great, then what will?

At times, I wish we would have just kept Rubin.

The question is that if Garth Gerhart is only a little less talented of a blocker as Erving but doesn'tsnap the ball way over the QB's head, does that warrant a change in the lineup?

I don't get this line of thinking. One play and you want to change the OL line up? Sure if it keeps happening I can see it, but as hard as it is for the OL to gel, I don't get wanting to change it. I think Erving has improved and is working hard at it. Don't get all the hate thrown his way.

Last time I knew he was with Seattle ... is that still the case?

Yeah, we seem to always forget about him.

Sleeping. He sleeps well.

I miss Sheard too