According to Ohio and Michigan and probably most other states, I only know Ohio and Michigan off the top of my head, fund half of their school budgets via state property tax (Found unconstitutional btw). So while the federal government may help a bit (Their $500 mil budget is less than what Hill and Don have raised this campaign), it's still up to the state to rely on funding the rest of the school via property tax. Well, I doubt East Cleveland is making as much as Solon in property taxes. It's all right here.
East Cleveland spends the 6th most money per student per year in the state. If we omit Put-In-Bay and its graduating class of 4 (!) seniors, East Cleveland moves up to #5.
Doesn't the fact that you want to omit a place, which has an extraordinarily high property tax, for East Cleveland kinda prove the point about how property tax funds schools? Also it does not say how each are funded unfortunately.
But I need to make some corrections to my post. After only having a budget for 500 million pre-2012 election, the department of education has a gigantic budget now in the tens of billions. My bad.
Also, what PDX said is the same in Ohio. Schools do have to send all of their money back to the state and then get it back as the state will distribute money back into local schools.
Education in America needs a gigantic overhaul. We might as well be talking Dwight Dollars and Stanley Nickels in terms of currency here. We have no idea where the money goes into the school system. The testing doesn't mean squat, it's an assessment test that just tells us kids are failing. It doesn't create any feedback for the students or the teachers about what they could do better. Plus school bureaucrats take so much money off the top. Not to mention are buildings structures part of money per student? Our system is clear as mud and it needs to be cleaned.
Doesn't the fact that you want to omit a place, which has an extraordinarily high property tax, for East Cleveland kinda prove the point about how property tax funds schools? Also it does not say how each are funded unfortunately.
But I need to make some corrections to my post. After only having a budget for 500 million pre-2012 election, the department of education has a gigantic budget now in the tens of billions. My bad.
Also, what PDX said is the same in Ohio. Schools do have to send all of their money back to the state and then get it back as the state will distribute money back into local schools.
Education in America needs a gigantic overhaul. We might as well be talking Dwight Dollars and Stanley Nickels in terms of currency here. We have no idea where the money goes into the school system. The testing doesn't mean squat, it's an assessment test that just tells us kids are failing. It doesn't create any feedback for the students or the teachers about what they could do better. Plus school bureaucrats take so much money off the top. Not to mention are buildings structures part of money per student? Our system is clear as mud and it needs to be cleaned.
The only district I suggested to omit was Put-in-Bay, which according to the article I posted has 62 students total, and a senior graduating class of 4!
I don't know much about Put-in-Bay's local government and I don't care, but given that it is an outlier in terms of cost spent per student (by far the highest in Ohio) I just figure it's graduating class of 4 just simply doesn't carry that much weight. I'm sure if the district had more students, the cost per student would go down due to overhead and such.
If you want to include it, fine. Your suggestion that East Cleveland is somehow disadvantaged in terms of money compared to Solon is still wrong. East Cleveland schools are spending nearly 1.5x more per student than Solon is.
The reality is that some of our best funded schools also happen to be the worst performing ones, and vice versa. This whole idea that inner-city schools don't have the funding is just incorrect. As I've said before, if the money is truly being squandered in those districts, fire the people who are responsible for that and get some people in there who know what they are doing (in fairness, it is probably not quite that simple).
I do agree that the education system in America needs an overhaul. I have some ideas on that but I'd rather defer to Vers and the other teachers who actually have the hands on experience.
Do you want to toss out all rural places? There's a reason why Putt In Bay is on top, but not the other lake erie islands. Because it has a higher property tax. You can argue with the facts all along to create a narrative, but they're right there.
East Cleveland might be spending more than Solon, but again that doesn't say what that's on. Are we sure that the students see that investment in? Again, there's a lot of variables.
In the Youngstown area, the school district (and we have some really good ones) that spends the most per student is ..... the one that is in the worst shape.
The Youngstown City Schools spend twice per student (or more) than the Boardman, Poland, Struthers, Niles, and other excellent districts that surround them.
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
I got this sent to me, and while it's been a while ... I thought that we should revisit the DNC Convention. Evidently I missed a lot ..... and man, they made a lot more sense than I initially thought.
(these guys rule)
Micah 6:8; He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.
John 14:19 Jesus said: Because I live, you also will live.
In the Youngstown area, the school district (and we have some really good ones) that spends the most per student is ..... the one that is in the worst shape.
The Youngstown City Schools spend twice per student (or more) than the Boardman, Poland, Struthers, Niles, and other excellent districts that surround them.
Weird.
I would guess that the school that's in the worst shape, despite spending more per pupil, has a high rate of single mothers.
Sorry folks - education starts at home, with a mom and dad that care about education.
Now, you can all try to rip me on this - fair enough. But if the truth hurts, so be it.
It's a way better explanation than blaming the kid for being born in the wrong circumstances as some had alluded to in past conversations on this.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
It's a way better explanation than blaming the kid for being born in the wrong circumstances as some had alluded to in past conversations on this.
Perhaps.
It would be best if said kid would have a mom and dad at home, though.
Next best would be if the kid had a parent and step parent that provided a loving home environment.
It would be nice if the kid even had a single parent that was able to provide a stable home life for the kid.
Dude, when kids dads do nothing but have sex and have nothing to do with the kid.......that's a problem. When a mom has 2, 3, 5 kids - and none of them have the same last name - that's a problem.
Black, white, hispanic.....I'm not making this about race. Kids that have a stable home life do better in school, and in life. That's just a general rule.
There's a lot of people who like to blame the child all the time, as if there was a drop down menu available for kids to choose which parents in what societal class they get to be born into.
At some point, the cycle has to be broken, sure.
Anyway, I'm wondering why people talk about who gets more money than who as if that's an indication of anything.
If my schools get more funding, then why has literally NO ONE responded to King and myself as to why kids don't see that money?
My schools computers didn't work. Not enough books for every kid for homework. Hell the condition of the school itself was straight hood. No substitutes when the teachers didn't show up.
So, what's good? Where's the money at the student level in the inner city?
Cause what you guys are posting and what's happening isn't exactly lining up.
Last edited by Swish; 08/21/1608:52 PM.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
But too many are looking at the numbers, and not enough observation at the actual student level.
I challenge those to walk into a few inner city schools, and then make your opinion.
Last edited by Swish; 08/21/1608:54 PM.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Very true, sir. Not all inner-city districts, arguably not many as a whole, get managed in a way that benefits the students. It stretches into rural area schools in the lower 48, too.
Here's how I view circumstances for some inner city kids. Some have no fathers around. They may also have mothers that are drug addicts.
Somebody from a gang approaches these kids and offers them a "way out." Offer them a way to help pay for their moms addiction or treatment. It can start off as something small like being a lookout on a corner for cops. So a kid who has no form of income or way to provide for himself is offered $50-100 a day to just be a lookout. Who's going to say no to that under those circumstances? However, in most cases it progresses and becomes worse.
These kids starting earning "respect." A form of admiration they never recieved in what we consider a normal family environment. In order to keep this admiration, they need to take on more advanced tasks. Gangs give these kids a sense of family and love they never recieved at home.
There's also the fun possibility of these kids being told to either take the money and do a job, or be killed for it. Pablo Escobar had a saying of "silver or lead." Take the money or die.
But if you delve into having fathers and mothers raising kids, together.......you know, having a dad, at a minimum, involved in a kids life - well, then you get people saying "ain't none of your business"
The facts remain, though.
Sex is what drives too many males. Have sex, who cares about the kids that come from it?
The ugly part? Those in power want to keep that cycle. The last person who truly wanted to break this cycle, Martin Luther King Jr., got offed by a rogue assailant; many people believe the FBI put the hit on King due to him wanting to upend the poverty cycle.
Meaningful poverty reform needs to happen for our country. Unfortunately, neither of our candidates can really offer it. Hillary's adopted Bernie's college plan that should help, but it fails to go far enough. Trump? He's got no answer to poverty except "bootstrap" rhetoric, and that's what usually gets preached on these boards, too.
Now for the "lol kid should've made better decisions" crowd,
1. What candy said is one of many scenarios that happens, and
2. It's a lot easier said than done when crap hits the fan.
Rocket mentioned the rural kids, and I agree, which is why I'm glad arch didn't mention race.
I mean just think about a school district. Let's say Beachwood and.., what's a good one on the west side? Rocky River? West lake?
How many kids in those schools are worried about making sure their siblings are gonna eat today, or if the utilities will get shut off. Or worse, eviction.
Now think about east cleveland or cleveland municipal school district.
You'll be hard pressed to find a kid who ISNT worried about those things.
Then these kids show up to a hood school, little books, tech doesn't work, teachers don't care sometimes, etc.
These kids in the inner city or out in the sticks where poverty is a trap don't have time for school sometimes.
They're too busy trying to survive.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
For anyone w/an open mind..............I was on the SIC [School Improvement Counsel] that is comprised of teachers, administrators, parents, community leaders, etc. and I DID see how the money was being spent.
Accountability was my personal focus.
Furthermore, some of the guys who want to insist that inner city schools are not receiving more money [hi CHS] are unaware--or ignoring--the federal grants.
Our school had a federal grant that was based on diversity. We received HUGE amounts of money that made it possible for our students to experience things that kids in middle class and higher class schools could not. Each grade went on 5-6 field trips a year. That's right. 5 to 6!
The whole thing is about Equity vs Equality. Here is an article about what that really means:
Quote:
Equity and Equality Are Not Equal Share this page: Mar 12, 2014 by Blair Mann There is a common misconception that equity and equality mean the same thing — and that they can be used interchangeably, especially when talking about education. But the truth is they do not — and cannot. Yes, the two words are similar, but the difference between them is crucial. So please, don’t talk about equality when you really mean equity.
What’s the difference?
Should per student funding at every school be exactly the same? That’s a question of equality. But should students who come from less get more in order to ensure that they can catch up? That’s a question of equity.
equity Credit: United Way of the Columbia-Willamette Yes, making sure all students have equal access to resources is an important goal. All students should have the resources necessary for a high-quality education. But the truth remains that some students need more to get there.
Here’s where equity comes in. The students who are furthest behind — most often low-income students and students of color — require more of those resources to catch up, succeed, and eventually, close the achievement gap. Giving students who come to school lagging academically (because of factors outside of a school’s control) the exact same resources as students in higher income schools alone will not close the achievement gap. But making sure that low-income students and students of color have access to exceptional teachers and that their schools have the funding to provide them with the kind of high-quality education they need to succeed will continue us on the path toward narrowing that gap.
Equality has become synonymous with “leveling the playing field.” So let’s make equity synonymous with “more for those who need it.”
In common language........it was not enough that we provide our lower income students w/equal resources, we had to provide additional resources for them until they achieved equal scores.
Y'all can b..... and moan about how the poor our not treated equally in education.......and in a sense you are right.....because they get more assistance from the government than kids like mine did.
Whatever. Some people appreciate being educated and others do not. Y'all can stay grounded in your ignorance.
I'm not making anything up. You can stay grounded in your arrogance and ignorance.
You can't even read. Try again.
One thing I have noticed that is prevalent on among many of you. You do not like to learn. Your opinions are set in stone and you resort to insults and stubborn-minded tactics if someone more educated than you speaks on a particular subject.
I think about music. I love music.........but there ain't no way I am going to argue w/Clem about who is a better player or which composition is more complex. You see.............I actually respect his expertise and I can set my passion aside and actually try to freaking learn something.
Guys like you? Pfffftttttttttt........it's all about winning some stupid argument that you have no real knowledge about. You're like male dogs marking your territory. Mindless, but dangerously aggressive.
Before I went to high school, all my schools were on military bases.
We went on maybe 5-6 field trips.
I figured that was normal.
I never went on a field trip in cleveland high schools.
Ever. When I got put in private school it changed.
So we're actually talking about equity?
Ok.....but your article is arguing for our points. So...thanks for providing a link backing us up?
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
However, I can tell you that you would be freaking amazed at how we spend on testing. You are a smart guy........research it.
I attended a conference in North Carolina for Magnet Schools around the country. [Let me back up. We got our huge National Grant because we were awarded the title as a magnet school.] In one of our sessions, they had a powerpoint about the percentage of money spent on testing materials, test prep, and paying the actual companies who provided the testing materials. It was freaking mind-boggling.
I was also part of a group of teachers who started a campaign against testing in our state. You will find this hard to believe, Rocket........but two years ago, our state switched how we tested the kids.
We had been going w/PASS, which is an acronym for Palmetto Assessment of State Standards. We were told at the beginning of the year that we were changing, but no further information was provided. In freaking January, we were informed that Science and SS would still use the PASS test, but that Math, Reading, and Writing would be tested by ACT.
The crazy thing is that the ACT tests are timed tests, where as, the PASS tests were not. I was a math and Science teacher. I always taught my kids to read carefully, decompose the problems, try different strategies [I'm talking about math], etc....Well, in Jan, we find out that it was timed. We had to switch gears completely.
Un-freaking-real! My poor kids........and us teachers.......were so stressed out. I felt more like a medic at a disaster site than a teacher at times.
And here is something that a lot of people who wanna feel sorry for the inner city kids can sink their teeth into, and I absolutely agree w/them in this case:
Even though that test was timed, most of the problems on the test were very, very long. Thus, it was almost more of a reading test than a math test. And anyone who has taught inner city kids knows the difficulties that entails.
My kids did pretty damn good on the test. One of my goals going into that particular year was to improve their reading skills to help w/Math problems. We got lucky that way. But, most teachers and kids were not as lucky.
The freaking testing crap is certifiably biased. And I have fought that battle and it was ONE of the reasons I resigned from teaching.
I just don't like being told that I am making crap up in regards to the amount of resources given to different socioeconomic classes. I am NOT A FREAKING LIAR!!!!
I think a ton of the misunderstanding comes from barely any of us knowing how the money gets spent.
I've got a basic idea of the budget of testing. A lot of the bush Alaska districts basically had to spend a TON on laptops just so the kids could take computerized standardized test. The kicker? The state just dumped it. Granted we've got tons of new tech now, but we really only got it due to the testing that doesn't currently exist anymore.
Did y'all make any headway on trying to get the state education board, and connecting the whole assessing kids using different modalities? That's what grinds my gears the most about testing. I agree we need a state assessment, but not an assessment that only tests one learning modality.
How am I suppose to learn when you give responses like that?
At least when I go on my rage rants, I still manage to answer people's questions in the process.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
LOL...........state's do that all the time. It's boggles our minds. Wasted money that could be spent elsewhere.
Yeah, we made some headway. But mostly, it was by getting reporters to say that parents could opt their kids out from even having to take the test.
The state is corrupt and they went back to the same format the next year. It's about money, Rocket........as I am sure you have already discovered.
Here is something you might appreciate.
When I was in E. Cleveland, I noticed that after awhile, my kids got the math. They were damn good at solving mathematical problems. However, when I gave them practice tests for the EOG [End of Grade] test, they would bomb them in epic proportions.
It took me awhile, but finally, my dumb self figured out it was all about language. Those tests are written by white people and geared toward white language.
Our old Curriculum Director quit.......it was "too dangerous of an environment," and we hired this young black kid just out of college. He was really cool. Hard worker. Intelligent. I got w/him and explained my reasoning on why the kids were struggling w/material they absolutely knew. This dude actually rewrote each problem in ...how can I say....."our language." The kid's scores improved dramatically.
I show the kids that problems. I point out that the actual math problems were the same. The only difference was the "language." Yeah, it was an "ah ha" moment. Those kids worked hard to improve in that area and damned if they didn't pull it off.
I tried to get our Curriculum Director in SC to do the same thing, but she couldn't be bothered. Look, it was a lot of work....but it paid off.
So what I am saying is that there is indeed bias going on in education, it's just not what everyone thinks it is.
We deal with similar issues out here. Our kids can read, but vocabulary acquisition/understanding is the biggest issue. Alaska's state government gives us more money due to the logistics of where we teach, but the policies get built with an obvious bias to places like Anchorage, Fairbanks, Juneau, and other places accessible by the road system.
All I can do is to encourage you to keep fighting the good fight. And you might not like this, but I mean it in a helpful, sincere manner. Don't make excuses for them to their faces.
Acknowledge their issues, but don't dwell on them. Insist that they work even harder to overcome them. Let them know that you BELIEVE that they are smart enough, tough enough, resilient enough, etc to overcome anything.
Kids are way more capable of great achievements than the majority of the public ever gives them credit for. Just knowing that you believe in them and that you refuse to use their circumstances as an excuse to not try their best LIFTS their spirits and they will fight for both you and themselves.
And I know that you don't care too much about them fighting for you, but man, kids really do need someone to believe in. It all starts w/you believing in them.
ok but you posting a article where they are saying that yes, kids in those situations need more help than kids who aren't in those sort of lives isn't educating me.
it's telling me something people on this board have already been saying.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Swish.............the point of that article and what really happens is that way more resources [money] are provided to those kids to help them catch up to the kids who are not in that situation.
I lived it. I was there. And unless you are like arch and King, who call me a liar, you gotta appreciate that, bro.
I won't steer you wrong. There is all kinds of bias going on. But, resources/money/funding is not one of them.
I mean.......if I was so freaking biased.....why the hell would I say there is bias in how the test questions are written? Why would I say that some of the teachers I worked with used the kid's home environment as an excuse?
Damn man...........I'm one mother...... who is actually on your side. You just don't see it!
(these guys rule)
