DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Everything Else... Outrage Grows After Deadly Police Shooting of Unarmed Father

https://gma.yahoo.com/video/outrage-grows-deadly-police-shooting-000523219.html

unfortunately its a video, but basically, dude got shot, he was using sign language to communicate.

***Disclaimer** not about race, not bashing cops ****
***Disclaimer** not about race, not bashing cops ****
***Disclaimer** not about race, not bashing cops ****
***Disclaimer** not about race, not bashing cops ****
***Disclaimer** not about race, not bashing cops ****
***Disclaimer** not about race, not bashing cops ****
***Disclaimer** not about race, not bashing cops ****


ok, so i just have to ask.....what the hell is the right situation here? i honestly don't know what to think about it. i mean...the guy is deaf, using sign language. but the average american, never mind a cop, has no idea about that because...well lets be real, most people don't have to deal with deaf people on a daily basis, if ever.

this sucks but....man i dunno. thoughts?

Sad, but again wait until we know more. Looks pretty bad though. I don't understand the pressures that police are under well enough to say why or how this might happen but it does on a regular basis.

This guy might have reached for pen and paper, who knows. Barney Fife got nervous, who knows. I'm almost at the point where I think cops should have non-lethal loads in their first few chambers on the top of their clips. Something like rubber bullets or gas pellets.

Pretty sure the cop will be prosecuted here. We'll see.

A terrible shame this happened.

From what I can find this started off as a bit of a chase because the Deaf guy could not hear the sirens. Now the adrenaline is up for the cop and the guy, realizing what is happening, starts to panic.

Cops seem to be shooting too quickly today but I can understand it as certain homegrown terrorist elements of our society have declared war on the Police and call for their assassination.

At some point in America we have lost our sense of personal responsibility. Don't put yourself in positions where a cop may shoot you and the probability of getting shot goes down drastically.


I love how you have to watch the entire video to hear this......."a 7 mile chase ensued".


Personal responsibility.

So what does a deaf person do in that situation?

Their only form of communication is sign language.

Hell, what's the cop suppose to do? If I got sirens on and someone isn't stopping, the first thought isn't "oh he must be deaf"

I mean... Excuse my ignorance but the rare days I see someone use sign language, to me it just looks like they are throwing up gang signs.

As a deaf person you need to be prepared for a situation where an officer needs to speak to you. Like how can you not be prepared for that?

I dunno. I'm not deaf.

How does a deaf person prepare for every possible scenario? How do they know they know which ones they need to? I'm not deaf, I don't know what the day to day functions a deaf person must perform.

I can understand the argument of cops not needing to train themselves to interact with someone that speaks another language. However, I KNOW they are trained to deal with handicapped citizens.

On the 7 mile chase thing, don't deaf people have rear view mirrors where they can see flashing lights?

JMO

Obviously the cop was in the wrong. I wish I knew how to fix these issues, but the problem is there isnt a perfect answer.

Cops are getting more nervous and more militarized and people are bucking it harder and harder, which makes the cops more nervous and militarized...etc etc

I actually like that idea OldCold. Think it could solve some of the trigger happy/scared for their life officers issues and save lives.

Sad situation, no doubt. My first reaction was "what the hell was the cop doing?"

After hearing "..7 mile chase..." I thought the exact same thing you just said. Shoot, I'm checking my mirrors constantly when I drive. Being deaf is no reason to not check your mirrors - it's even MORE reason to.

So, the cop thinks he's got a runner. How fast was the chase? That would be a key/clue. Was the guy just going the speed limit? Or was it really a chase?

We don't know, as of now.

Then, sign language. Those hands move real fast. If it was a "chase", and the guy got out of the car signing, I can see how an officer might perceive that as threatening.

If it was just strolling along at normal speeds, why didn't the cop pull up beside him? In 7 miles, there had to be an opportunity for that, right?

As is always the case, time will tell us more I guess.

And what if those 1st few rounds are the only means in saving the police officer or your some other life?

I wasn't even ware deaf people were allowed to drive.

Why not? They're not blind.

... and less of a chance of them being on a cell phone.

Yup. I have 2 friends that are deaf.

DEAF MAN'S FAMILY SAYS HE WAS UNARMED WHEN KILLED BY TROOPER


Aug 23, 2:14 PM EDT
BY JEFFREY COLLINS AND MARTHA WAGGONER
ASSOCIATED PRESS
link

CHARLOTTE, N.C. (AP) -- A deaf man who was shot and killed by a North Carolina state trooper after he didn't stop for the officer's blue lights was unarmed and likely did not understand the officer's commands, the slain man's family says.

Daniel Harris' family said they want to make sure the incident is investigated thoroughly and also want the state to make changes so officers will immediately know they are dealing with a hearing-impaired driver.

Trooper Jermaine Saunders tried to pull Harris over for speeding Thursday evening on Interstate 485 near Interstate 85 in northeast Charlotte. Harris did not stop, leading the trooper on a 10-mile chase, the Highway Patrol said in a statement.

Harris stopped in his neighborhood within sight of his home. Harris and Saunders had what the State Bureau of Investigation described as "an encounter," leaving the 29-year-old man shot at least once and dead in the street.

Authorities have released little information about the investigation, including any possible body camera or dashboard camera footage or whether a gun was found near Harris. Saunders has been placed on administrative leave. A spokeswoman for the SBI, which is handling the investigation, didn't immediately respond Tuesday to questions, including whether authorities have interviewed Saunders yet.

Harris' family is raising money for his funeral and will use any extra money toward educating police officers on how to handle hard of hearing people and calling for a system to alert officers they are dealing with a deaf driver when they enter information into their computers, according to the family's posting on YouCaring.com.

"You don't see deafness the way that you see the difference in race. We need to change the system," Harris' brother Sam said to reporters using sign language and an interpreter after the Monday night vigil.

Sam Harris is deaf, and so are his brother's parents and other family members. They signed with each other as an Associated Press reporter knocked on their door Tuesday.

Sam Harris didn't want to talk Tuesday, but wrote a note leaving an email address for an interpreter, who did not immediately respond.

The National Association of the Deaf doesn't keep statistics on violent interactions involving deaf people and law enforcement. Its chief executive officer, Howard Rosenblum, said there are "too many" such incidents.

"Too often, officers make verbal orders for individuals to comply and act aggressively when those individuals do not comply," Rosenblum wrote in an email. "Deaf individuals often are unable to understand the verbal commands of law enforcement officers, and this has led to many physical altercations between law enforcement officers and deaf individuals over the years, with some resulting in death."

The NAD supports intensive training for law enforcement officers on dealing with people who are deaf or hard-of-hearing and says some officers should be trained to communicate in American Sign Language.

After the Monday night vigil, Sam Harris told reporters about a frightening encounter he had with an officer.

"I pulled over and within a few seconds, the officer is at my window with his weapon drawn and in my face. I'm deaf! I'm deaf! I'm deaf!" he signed, putting his hands on his ears in exaggerated motions.

The Associated Press left messages with two State Highway Patrol spokesmen about what training the patrol offers for dealing with deaf drivers. A state Division of Motor Vehicles spokeswoman could not immediately say whether if the agency offers any ways for deaf people to identify themselves through decals or other methods.

Harris is white, and authorities said they did not know Saunders' race.

I'm not saying they should. All I said was I wasn't aware they were allowed to.

He was pulled over for SPEEDING breaking the law and he refused to stop when officer turned on flashing lights and siren (not knowing the driver was deaf) further breaking more laws.

Not sure why or when the driver exited his car but deaf or not you should remain inside your car until the officer asked you to exit the car. From what I was taught you remain in the car with your window at least half down with your hands finger open on the steering wheel. That way the officer doesn't see you as a threat and as far as deaf driver part I would think they would have a card made to give an officer if they were to be in that situation for what ever reason.

Man gets out of car after breaking a couple laws waving his hands in an unfamiliar manner could make an officer jumpy.

I reserve judgement until all facts are revealed.

Jc

I dont know if this exists, but someone could make coin developing a car device that lights up whenever there is a siren in the vicinity. To alert deaf drivers or elderly who are hard of hearing.. Feel free to credit me on Shark Tank.

Also common sense says deaf drivers should have a sign that says Im Deaf. Because cops can pull you over at any time.

After everything the guy did wrong one may wonder if he had a license?

And every time I get a ticket it seems like the cops are practically tailgating me. If so, how could he have not noticed them?

How to React when You Are Pulled over As a Deaf Driver

Community Q&A

Deaf drivers often worry about what may happen should they get pulled over by a police officer. This can be a legitimate concern, as some police officers may not expect that the person they are pulling over is deaf. The steps in this article should help deaf drivers communicate with police on a traffic stop.

Community Q&A

1. Turn on your turn signal or four-way flashers immediately upon seeing the emergency lights of the police vehicle. This will tell the police officer(s) that you acknowledge them and are looking for a safe place to stop.

2. Pull off to the side of the road when it is safe to do so. If you are on a bridge or a roadway with very little space, continue on until there is a place that is safe for you (and the officer) to stop at.

3. Turn your dome light on inside your vehicle and open your car windows. This will allow the officer to see inside your vehicle and ensure that there is nothing in your vehicle that will compromise his safety.

4. Carry a notepad and pen in your vehicle and keep it accessible to the driver's seat. Ahead of time, make a note on the front page of the notepad indicating that you are deaf or hard of hearing.

5. Show the notepad to the officer upon his approach. Keep your hands on the steering wheel and place the notepad in a visible spot. Do not make any sudden movements as he is approaching your vehicle or once he is next to your car door.

6. Wait for the officer to respond to you via the notepad. Continue your conversation by writing notes to each other on the notepad. Keep your hands on the steering wheel

Why isn't DLM all over this?

It sounds to me right now like the cop screwed up. It is also clear that the driver screwed up. Those flashing lights can be seen by Helen Keller from 10 miles away. There is no way in hell that he didn't see them yet he kept on driving.

Ok, that's fine but how are you prepared? Do you carry a card in your wallet that you have to reach for? Probably not a good idea. Do we require them to wear a special bracelet that can be seen? Maybe just make them all wear a hat with "I'M DEAF" on it real big?

Seriously, I guess there are some things we could do... we could have special "deaf driver" license plates, which cops could identify if they pulled behind you or pulled you over. At least they would know.

You do realize that breaking the law is done by degrees, right?

ie..... What you are describing are traffic citations, not violent crimes.

Only here have I seen someone use traffic citations as a reasonable cause for a death penalty dished out by a police officer.

It's time people get it through their heads that police are human too. There are good and bad in every profession. Including police officers. And some simply make mistakes. It happens.

Trying to use traffic infractions as some rationalization for a death sentence doled out by a police officer looks foolish to any rational person.

As long as you realize that cops don't walk up and say, "Sir, you rolled through that last stop sign. So, I'm sorry but...." and then shoot them.

The traffic citation starts it, the shooting ends it... it's what happens in between that is usually in question and determines whether it was justified...

Saying that people are being shot for traffic citations is highly disingenuous.

You missed this part of my post...

"I reserve judgement until all facts are revealed."...

I listed the things we knew from the video can't say who was in the right or wrong. There are pieces of this story missing until all the pieces are put together we won't know the truth only SPECULATIONS.

I guess what I'm saying is that this all began as a traffic citation, the man committed no violent offense and he was unarmed. Somehow that ends up with him being shot and killed. There's something very wrong with that picture.

There is to much information missing here.

On the surface, you are 100% correct. This particular incident seems like a tragic mistake involving a deaf person, though as Vambo said, there is still a lot we don't know.

In general though, cops have been shot walking up to cars expecting to issue something as simple as a traffic citation. Drivers have become belligerent and aggressive, etc.. My point, and I don't think we are disagreeing all that much, is the fact that something starts out as a simple traffic citation can end much worse depending on what happens next... and sometimes it could be the cops fault, others it could be the motorists fault..

If I had to guess, and it's pure speculation on my part, when you combined the fact he didn't stop, along with what would appear as erratic movements when exiting the car ( sign language gestures ), the cop probably thought the man was high on drugs. Now would that cause a police officers first response to be shooting the man? I don't know. However, I don't believe it should.

You are 100% right in this statement. But where you are 100% wrong and IMO contribute to the overall problem is your previous statement that he was killed for committing a traffic offense. A statement like that is not only disingenuous, but it's purposefully misleading... dishonest at it's worst, irresponsible at it it's best.

To be honest, anything other than the Wu Tang looks like gang signs to me... so, take that for what it's worth lol


So, a little psychology about a low speed "chase"... from the cop's seat, in a high speed pursuit, I think most everyone understands why your adrenaline would be up. That's obvious. But the low speeds... there's really only 2 reasons a person refuses to stop and continues to drive at low speed. Well 3.

1) Ditch the weed!

2) They are looking for the best place to bail and run. Waiting for that moment where you have to slam your car in Park and sprint after him builds the tension. THEN when you do start running you have to be concerned with if they are going to turn and fight, shoot, etc... plus you don't want to sound like a douche on the radio lol

3) They are preparing to jump out and fight it out right there.


In this case... I haven't had the time to watch the video yet, but it doesn't look good for the cop based on what I'm hearing. I think the deaf guy takes responsibility for turning a situation into something it didn't need to be by not stopping for 7 miles then jumping out of the car. Having said that though, in order for the cop to be justified the driver would still have to have made some sort of actions that could reasonably have been interpreted as some kind of lethal threat. It doesn't appear that was the case here.


As for how deaf people should handle being pulled over... it doesn't have to be any different than anyone else really. Hands on the steering wheel. I'd suggest having a card right next to their license that says "Hey, I'm deaf!" or possibly something they could hang on their rear view mirror to point to that would indicate the same instead of reaching for a wallet.

Pretty crappy situation to say the least.

Not really. At his time, it appears that traffic laws were the only ones that were broken. Have you seen any other laws that were broken in this case?

My point has always been and will always be, that most police are doing their job responsibly and serve the community well. I hope you've read enough of my posts to understand this. But there are bad apples in every bunch including the police. There are also many officers serving with such great fear these days, that incidents like these occur because of it.

I understand that you are a police officer and with that comes a certain amount of bias. From everything you have posted I believe you are an honest and thoughtful officer of the law like the vast majority are.

Maybe it would have been better stated that traffic violations led to a shooting that killed a deaf person? Because from where I sit, that's the gist of it.

Was the area the law breaker finally pulled over a place that could have made the officer more concerned for his safety?

So did the officer ask the law breaker to exit the car or did the law breaker just jump out on his own?

Was the law breaker making his hand gestures in a calm manner or in a wild manner?

What were the conditions? Sunny bright could the light have blinded the officer momentarily?

Was it dark near dark?

Was there other people around?

Maybe it could be stated deaf man followed the laws no matter how inconsequential we may feel they are makes it home safe and sound.