DawgTalkers.net Forums The Archives 2016 NFL Season Looking Back: Browns 13 Falcons 24 Postgame Thoughts

Indeed.. Worst tackler on a team rife with them. He's AFRAID. That doesn't just go away. He might run fast but as long as he's afraid to tackle anyone he's a bum that needs to go. Or they can start him, get torched every week and next year we'll have a new HC etc.

Not signing Sheard was a huge mistake ... I thought it was extremely dumb

Ray Farmer made a lot of mistakes. It was almost as if he was a mole, planted to do as much damage as possible in as shot a time as possible.

Gilbert
Manziel
Shelton
Erving

Just think about what we COULD have had instead

Odell Beckham, Derek Carr, Marcus Peters, etc

Agreed

You think Gilbert is at a point in his career where he can afford to make business decisions why it comes to tackling?

Also saying Deion wasn't a good tackler is an obvious exaggeration. I've seen Deion light dudes up (including RBs). He was a very selective tackler to be sure but when he needed to bring someone down he could.

No, I don't think Gilbert is good enough to get away with not tackling, but some corners have that mentality. Was it possible that Gilbert was saving himself for the season? Do you really "need" to bring someone down in a preseason game?

Gilbert had 155 tackles in college, so it's not like he is incapable. I was rewatching his college highlights and he had some good sticks.

We are really thin at CB and not many of the guys we have profile as outside guys. Haden is already coming back from injury. I've only heard good things on Gilbert coming from teammates and Horton.

“Justin Gilbert has done everything we’ve asked,” defensive coordinator Ray Horton said recently. “We came in — I came in — and we talked about having a clean slate. I remember Justin in college [at Oklahoma State University], coming out, what kind of player he was. I said, ‘I want you to be that type of player.’ He’s done everything we’ve asked, and I’m very happy with him.”

Link

Maybe he was asked to protect himself a bit. Our secondary doesn't look the greatest with him, but it would probably look even worse without him. It's sad that that's the case, but I think it is true.

Interesting take...I see the LB almost completely opposite of you. I've been impressed with how physical Davis and Kirksey are playing.

I never thought I would see Kirksey shoot a gap, stack a blocker and shed to make a tackle.

That imo bodes very well for his ability to play ILB in this scheme because it was a skillset I thought he lacked. I knew he had speed to run/chase and cover but questioned whether he could be physical in the run game.

IF/When they play Ogbah at OLB you'll see a stout edge defender. Playing him at DE has imo sped up his development as an edge run defender.

Nassib is a edge defender not an LBs.

If Hugh is able to run the ball the way he wants the offense is going to complement the defense and make it better.

Hugh's run game (if it works) will improve time of possession which has a direct correlation to defense.
Also, a solid run game lowers the turnover rate, which is also good for a defense.

HELL YEAH.
Gilbert plays on defense. The hallmark of being a good defender is attitude, competitiveness, toughness, aggression. And if you have these traits it shows up all the time and especially in preseason when reputations are earned and jobs are won and lost.

And especially when your spot is in jeopardy, yeah ABSOLUTELY Gilbert needs to bring someone down in preseason. Gilbert should be flying around laying the wood, playing like his hair is on fire. I bet you Jammar Taylor is more dialed in then Gilbert because you can see the difference in their play on the field. If its me I have Jammar Taylor way ahead of Gilbert already.


Seems like you are really reaching here. I mean of course you can think whatever you like. Seems like mental gymnastics to me going to this length to rationalize Gilbert's play.

And if you really believe your defensive staff is asking defenders to protect themselves then you got much, much, much bigger problems coming.

Text book from Kirksey

Also, textbook non-effort by #21, Gilbert, at the bottom of the screen.

Gilber looks like he has some good dance moves in those pics.

haha wow

Obviously I'd like them to be full go aggressive all the time, but I'm not sure if that happens a lot at corner anymore. I was disappointed in Gilbert's "tackle attempt" as much as anyone and started looking at next year's crop of defensive backs on draftbreakdown. They pretty much all seem to be pretty hesitant to tackle or at least content to take it easy if it looks like someone else can tackle the guy with the ball. I don't know if it's like the Baylor offense where sometimes the WRs are told to conserve energy, but I saw a lot of guys standing around if the run went to the other side. I wasn't impressed with White (LSU), Tabor (Florida), or Tankersley (Clemson) on the effort front. Desmond King (Iowa) looks the best of guys I've looked at so far. It was a fairly limited sampling.

Did any of our corners look good tackling? Tramon Williams didn't record any. Gilbert led (tied with a few others) the corners with 2 tackles according to NFL.com's stats. Link Gilbert's was the most memorable miss, but only because it resulted in a TD. I saw a lot of lackadaisical tackle attempts. Moore's attempt on Wild's TD was pretty weak. Kindred looked like the only db that really came to hit somebody.

Lol, posted those pics as example of Kirksey playing downhill and stacking and shedding to make a tackle in the run game.

Just a coincidence that Gilbert is playing patty cake.

But, who knew Kirksey would be mixing it up like that?

j/c

I've gone back and watched the Freeman TD multiple times. It's not a particularly good look for Gilbert, but I don't think will/effort was the issue. He sees the play coming his way and steps up without hesitation. He just dropped his head and tried to keep him from getting outside. Help from inside didn't show up as Kirksey got held up on 42. Gilbert did do a poor job of wrapping, but Freeman did a good job of getting skinny, yet still running with power. Unlike Crowell, Freeman seems to be able to keep his balance. Not a good play for Gilbert, but I think it is correctable. I think Gilbert's short comings are blown out of proportion due to his past inability to live up to his draft position. He's not great, but I don't think he is as bad as he is made out to be by some. He seems to have improved in his recognition and is doing a better job passing guys off and recognizing misdirection. He still has a lot of work to do, but Freeman can make a lot of people look bad.

j/c

If you look at the DL we've let go over the past few years, we would have a better starting DL than we have now with those players. Does this ever end?

Sheard and Rubin would definitely be an upgrade right now IMO

I'm really trying not to get too excited about what Terrelle Pryor has looked like.

I have never seen a WR group that has such high potential, yet is almost purely based on that potential. Between Gordon, Pryor, and Coleman, you have almost no evidence that this is going to work, outside of one season out of Gordon.

Pryor has shown flashes in camp and meaningless preseason games, and Coleman is a rookie who has missed both othose preseason games.

I just don't want to bank on any of that coming true. There is a lot of potential with this offense though. Big play Gar, Duke Johnson who showed flashes, and the comeback project for RG3. This offense has a ridiculously high ceiling, but also a floor that is pretty low. This thing could go ugly quick.

I can't wait to get this third preseason game out of the way, and then we can all start really talking about Philadelphia.

I'll hold my breath on Pryor too ... he's only shown the ability to go vertical/fade routes ... but that can help our O if other receivers can get open

Rahim Moore was flat out embarrassing as far as tackling went.

Some guys were excited by our signing him .... but I didn't think that he was any big deal. He's not behind Jordan Poyer. Man, if that doesn't say it all, I don't know what does. Poyer is an OK backup, but man, he's a guy who should be able to be beat by an experienced, young vet. However, Moore has been behind Poyer from the word go, and hasn't even begun to close on him.

I would almost not be surprised if we cut Moore.

There's a reason why Moore can't last with a team ... he stinks

I'd cut him too

Hey guys. Two words to this years team: no talent!

And here's when I lost all hope for Pettine. From his post 2014 draft PC:

On Gilbert’s tackling ability:

Pettine: “In our system, we are not [using] a lot of a hard corner very often, where the corner is primary in run support so when a ball is going around the perimeter, the corner is the first line of defense. That’s very rare in our system. Our premium, when we look at and list the attributes of and say, ‘Here’s what we we’re looking for in a corner,’ the press-man coverage ability, the ability to eliminate a wide receiver and allow us to play 10 against 10 and do that with two guys and play nine against nine, that is a much higher premium than to be more of an outside-linebacker type. Since it’s further down the list, he was clearly our top corner because he fits our scheme. He might not have been the top corner for some other teams schematically that are more Cover 2.”

------------------------------------------

I've never before been this detached from the Browns. It's all gone for me. First the stooges clowns, then the incredibly bad Farmer drafts and this draft by the stat and algorithm worshippers wasn't any better. And to put the final nail in the coffin: a complete moron of an owner who makes Al Davis look like Vince Lombardi.

I feel bad for Hue, Joe Thomas and some of the others. They don't deserve to be part of this mess.

stick around DJ! ... good to hear from you (and I agree about the no talent ... especially on D)

I am liking Hue more and more. I like how he handles himself. I hope to God he won't be sacrificed by the poor talent he has on the roster.

I do find Hue's approach very interesting in how he apparently has less concern for getting everything running right for opening day but instead is still extremely on finding the best players, the best combinations expecially for defense. I love the fact he had shelton in there with Ogbah and Nassib with Scooby and Alexander. I like he was giving Kindred first team reps.

I really have a lot of respect for how he is giving players opporutnity to earn it. Hell we have France the undrafted at #2 LT.

Also just wanted to add that did u guys see Greco on his pancake block at the start of the game. he and Paz showed tremendous chemistry and Greco was really playing like a man on a mission. By far our best offensive linemen last week. last week to this week, was fantastic improvement from the OL especially right side. hal Hunter is one of the best.



He seems

Greco was a beast last game ... I saw a few plays where he dominated

I thought Terrell Watson ran well when he got a chance. I think we will see him quite a bit this season. Tough dude to bring down.

He looks on par to replace Glenn Winston. Great story too.

Yes I think the Winston era is nearing an end. Mostert and Watson will stick, IMO.

I can't remember Winston ever contributing. If he did I missed it.

I recall a fumble.

OK, contribute to us ...

The ghost of Glenn Winston ... a tradition unlike any other

I thought that happened when he crashed his motorcycle? Oh, Winston.. not Winslow.. my fault.

Well, it's about time considering WW2 ended 70yrs ago... Oh, you weren't referring to Churchill? my bad

I never smoked Winston's, but my Marlboro era ended 28 years ago by the grace of God

The amount of money you've saved over those 28 years, wow, I bet it is an astronomical amount.

My friend just quit, ten year hardcore smoker, cold turkey and hasn't had a cig in lil over six months.

More power to anyone who lays that habit to rest.

When a guy can SHUT DOWN anyone and everyone you put him on like Deon, then I don't care if he can tackle. Dilbert isn't even CLOSE to Sanders. It's like Pluto and Uranus when they're on opposite sides of the solar system....