DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Browns Front Office....still not ready for prime time..(imo)

Finding out information concerning how this Browns front office and owner are running the Browns' franchise takes time.

One issue that I can't stop thinking about is just what criteria the Browns draft team was using when ranking the QB talent in the 2016 draft?

Most online nfl draft sites ranked the QB the Browns draft team selected,Cody Kessler, in the range of the 10th to 15th best QB in the 2016 draft. The Browns draft team saw something in Kessler that moved him up the Browns draft board, pushing him ahead of several QBs who were ranked ahead of him.

The question I have is what are the qualities that the Browns draft team valued most in a QB?
...Physical ability, such as arm strength, a QBs size and speed, accuracy?
...Performance on the field..W-L record, comeback wins, poise under pressure, leadership?
...Individuals performance in the classroom?
...Background check, police record?

Looking at the success (or failure) rates of the 32 NFL franchises when it comes to drafting a future "franchise QB", it's obvious that the criteria and the degree of emphasis each franchise attaches to the various QB qualities, varies greatly and in some cases, varies year to year.

A franchise's draft history and record of past success drafting a franchise QB, might be an indicator that some franchises are emphasizing the wrong QB qualities and/or putting an unrealistic emphasis on some qualities that have little to do with chosing the best QB prospect.

Below is just an indication of what the Browns management and draft team look for when selecting a potential franchise QB. The part pertaining to the Browns is highlighted in "red"...but the rest of the article gives some indication what other teams look for when judging QB talent.



Prescott gets quality time with Browns, Panthers, Steelers


Published: March 12, 2016 at 5:35 p.m.
link

Dak Prescott threw passes for 30 NFL clubs Thursday at Mississippi State's pro day event, but three of them showed the former Bulldogs star a little more attention than others: the Cleveland Browns, Pittsburgh Steelers and Carolina Panthers.

First, it was the Browns with a battery of psychological tests on Wednesday, the day before pro day, that assessed Prescott's capacity and methods of learning. Five tests, timed at seven minutes each, with no such thing as a wrong answer. The Browns took the results back to Cleveland without grading immediately.


"I had to place some drawn pictures, kind of like comics, in an order so they tell a story without any words," Prescott said. "That was one test, another was asking what was missing from a picture, there were some pattern correlations with numbers, that kind of stuff."

All that testing built up an appetite, which is where the Steelers came in.

Steelers quarterback coach Randy Fichtner texted Prescott to arrange dinner Wednesday night, and Prescott picked Harvey's, one of the top eateries in Starkville, Miss. Nothing too heavy with a pending workout: a balsamic chicken pasta dish. The dinner topic? Football, of course, and a member of the Steelers' scouting staff came along.

On Thursday, Prescott stood on all his combine testing and opted to go through passing drills only. He weighed in at 227 pounds, within a pound of his Senior Bowl and combine weigh-ins. After a 70-throw script off three- and five-step drops, Fichtner and Panthers quarterbacks coach Ken Dorsey asked Prescott to throw out routes off a seven-step drop, for which he was glad to oblige.

Then it was time to meet one-on-one with Dorsey.

"I did some board work and he showed me some plays, then we watched some of my film together," Prescott said. "Then after we watched him, he wanted me to explain back the plays he had shown me earlier. He wanted to see how much I could repeat back, and I thought I did pretty well with it."

If the Browns, Steelers or Panthers plan to bring Prescott in for a visit or follow up with a private workout, they haven't yet informed him.

Prescott's schedule remains the same: the Arizona Cardinals and Dallas Cowboys with private workouts later this month, and facility visits to the Cardinals, Philadelphia Eagles and Buffalo Bills in April.

-- Chase Goodbre0.0.05.1162562256mkf7y2OnNUrCTR:00167

Prescott would probably have been our guy but getting the DUI right after all the Johnny stuff was likely a case of to much to soon. Again does anyone blame the Browns for doing a psychological test on prospects after Gilbert and Manziel?

As for Kessler, I dont think he is more than 3rd string material and we could have got him with a pick in the 8th round. But you also have to give the regime credit for being the only team to really have any desire in RG3. Yet to be seen if it was a good move but thus far its a good move.


Its a wait and see how these guys do. At the end of the day, they will be judged by what you see on the field.

It wasn't an NFL Insider, it was Mike Greenberg from the Mike & Mike radio show on ESPN.

Maybe they wanted a guy they thought would be a good backup. A grinder who was good in the QB room, and would work his tail off and maybe help the starter keep his nose to the grindstone after McCown retires. Maybe they expect RG3 to be successful, and didn't want a project with a lot to work on on the technique/mental side of things.

Instead of focusing on the guy we don't have, I'm going to express a tiny bit of hope about the guy we have who is supposed to start for us and has looked fairly good so far.

You are entirely entitled to your opinion, but I'll try to stick with Hue's philosophy of looking forward instead of back.

NFL Insider, LMFAO. I stopped listening to Mike and Mike because I can't stand to listen to Greenie. He falls in love with an athlete sooo quickly. All it takes is a couple of games where someone plays out of their minds and Greenie has them ready for the hall of fame. Jeremy Lin was one example.

I imagine he has his Jones for Prescott.

I know, what a BLOWN pick!

Seriously, it's the new regime's FIRST draft. You are lumping them in with some proven failures. Not saying I've got my hopes up super high for them, but I'm sure not going to bash them in August of their first offseason.

I don't mind Greeny, I just don't consider him an NFL Insider. I consider him a talk show host.

Now, maybe someone else also said that exact same thing this morning?

How could you be convinced? The players they drafted haven't played an NFL game yet.

Look mac, I don't trust the resume' of this FO. I don't actually see much background in talent evaluation within the FO to trust their judgment at this time. But we do differ in many ways.

First, about Prescott. Your argument seems to be that any team is actually targeting a franchise QB in the third or fourth round. I don't believe that is so. Do teams rarely luck out and that actually happens? Yes. But that happens more on hope than by design.

Secondly, you seem to be lumping the current FO with regimes from the past. These are not the same people so I will only judge them on their own merit. While I do in fact have strong reservations about this group, I do like some of these picks and feel their batting average of success could easily fall in line with average drafts across the league at this juncture.

Thirdly, I agree with you about the selection of Kessler. I think he was overdrafted and I don't see anything more than back-up potential and even that is in question. But every team has its share of draft picks that never pan out. It's not an anomaly. So far you have only been able to isolate one draft pick to focus on and I no more think you're trying to target a QB in the 4th round than trying to target a franchise LT in the 4th round.

Fourthly, it has only been four months since the draft. Nothing can actually be stated accurately about a player this early.

While like you I have my reservations about this FO, I'm willing to give them time to actually see them in action. To create a body of work with which to evaluate them on. The risk of moving too fast too judge people has us exactly where we are now. Starting over yet again.....

I agree. I also think Kessler was a coach pick more than a front office pick.

The positions with the 5 highest average salaries in the NFL are QBs, DE's, DTs, WRs, and LBs. We've...sucked at all those positions.

Link

You pay premium money for premium players at premium positions. We haven't had any of those in a while.

If we do manage to find some, we'll want to be able to keep them.

So Coleman was a poor pick?

You see - how can I take you seriously when you come out and want to judge a players career after 1/2 a training camp and half a game 3 of a preseason game?

Sure we have a history of bad picks. It doesn't take a radio host or an NFL insider to state accurately that we should have done better with 8 first round picks in 5 years. Just look at Oakland and you can see Carr, Cooper and Mack - all of which we could legitimately selected - and feel nauseous.

This is a new FO - and to tarnish them just because of Farmer and Lombardi/Banner etc - has no credibility or logic. Coleman looks like a baller - Nassib too - Ogbah has shown a little..... and they haven't played a down in a regular season game yet.

With regard to bashing this FO - our previous picks and FO's have no bearing other than the fact that this FO has to deal with a [censored] sandwich that the others made and left behind.

Likewise I find using Dak Prescott as any sort of barometer mindless too. Firstly he was the 135th pick and so every other team passes on him at least 3 times. Secondly the Browns were NEVER going to draft a QB with question marks about his character after JM .... so end the discussion there. Any reference to him as a blown opportunity by the Browns has zero credibility ..... it's like "fans" who want to call out the FO when they don't select the 6th round or undrafted FA that studs out. . . Brady, Terrell Davis etc ...

If we want to judge this FO - not only are you going to have to wait at least 3 years - the single biggest and inescapable metric might be Coleman and next year's Eagles first round pick versus Wentz. Given how essential a 'franchise' QB is, if Wentz is a top 5 or 6 QB in the league in the future. Chances are good we blew it, unless RG3 studs out or we land our elite QB with the use of the Eagles pick (either with a trade or selection). . . . personally I wanted Paxton Lynch and was happy enough to pass on Wentz. We will see.

I know how depressing it can be with the almost impossible to believe horrible history of the Browns since 1999 - but hating on everything and anything "just because" isn't the answer.

The way you have written that and put Coleman at the bottom of the 5 year list - I can't read it any other way than you thought he was another blown pick.... If that's not what you intended I take back my previous comments!!

He won't sign players we drafted to big contracts because the players we drafted at those positions have sucked.

We have to hit on players at those positions. Then we can pay them.

I never said anything about throwing money at FA's.

Good players at those positions generally don't hit FA.

The Steelers have hit on QBs and LBs and DLine and WR, so they paid them. We haven't. That's building through the draft. They haven't overpaid OLinemen and safeties just to keep their players.

As a Browns fan looking at that list makes me sick. If we had drafted well with those picks we should now have the foundation for a contending team. Let's hope the Coleman pick starts us in the right direction.

Honetly Mac, I think you are overreacting.

Let it play out.

Exactly.

Pretty sure you have to check the box there.

You'll notice that of the players you listed Sheard and possibly Benjamin if you stretch it are the only ones to play the positions I mentioned and were hits.

Jabaal Sheard had 2 and 5.5 sacks his last two years with us.
Benjamin had less than 1700 yards and 10 tds over four years with us and almost two-thirds of those yards were in his final season.

If we had hit on any of our numerous first round QBs or pass rushers or D Lineman we'd have big contracts to pay.

We've got to draft better, and that will be easier if we have a whole team that is in line, FO and Coaching staff, for a decent period of time (AKA more than 3 years)

Haslam hasn't been a perfect owner, but he's had to learn on the job, and he inherited a mess to begin with. If we have progress and he still blows it up again, I'll join you on the terrible owner wagon.

is this another thread about how Jimmy is making all personal decisions? crazy..

Jimmy hired banner and lombardi to draft Mingo.

He hired Ray Farmer to draft Manziel, Gilbert and Shelton

He hired a lawyer to rebuild the browns.

I am willing to give these guys the benefit of the doubt but Haslam is very much to blame for all of these decisions. He has done nothing but hire and fire since he came here and each has led to the roster we have before us.

The Steelers method. Find a QB, affect the other team's QB. Once you have a QB of course you protect him.

Pouncey will be in his 20s for most of his 5 year contract. Mack is already in his 30s. They are making similar money. Mack wanted out of Cleveland.

Gilbert is making 30 million over 5 years. The Browns offered Schwartz 7 million a year, but he thought he could make more.
Link for Schwartz offer

The Steelers didn't draft Mitchell, he was drafted by the Raiders.

I'm pretty sure the Browns haven't been considered a good, young team any time since the return outside of Cleveland and perhaps this message board.

The two teams that were in the Superbowl last year seem to have focused on QB, Defensive front 7, and WRs to me.

The Steelers have a QB, WRs, and have focused a lot of their resources on the defensive front 7. Heyward, Tuitt, Shazier, Dupree, Jarvis Jones. LBs were their first round picks in 2013, 2014, and 2015.

In 2012 they did draft DeCastro in the 1st, but they already had a QB, WRs, and a solid front seven, so they could afford to go BPA.

In 2011, they went Heyward in the 1st, another defensive front 7 guy.

So basically, we've got to find a QB. We've tried. It hasn't worked out. Until we do, we aren't going to be thought of as a well run franchise. The only way to get a franchise QB is through the draft. They don't change teams until well past their prime or after major injury. Maybe we'll be bad enough to get the 1st pick and there will actually be a QB worth taking there. With our luck, it will probably be another down year at QB.

Every regime the Browns bring in to correct the dysfunction set in place by the previous regime they end
Up failing.
The Browns hire head coaches who have no business being coaches in the 1st place
They have GMs who clearly have no idea how to be GMs
They have scouts who are truly poor at evaluating talent.
So many failures on all levels for the Browns.
What previous Browns HC..GM went to another team in that same capacity after leaving the Browns?
None. It speaks for itself
As far as the current regime goes where does it say on
Their resume guys (Brown and Depodesta) that they have
Totally turned around a losing culture?
Hue Jackson has a resume that I believe makes him a qualified HC.
I just don't think the front office guys aka the Harvard boys are true football guys.
I can see alot of clashing between Hue and the front office that we will never hear about.
But this team is void of talent it needs to hit home runs
On so many picks. Not just 1st rd picks but mid rd picks
See that's what playoff teams do
They hit game changers and difference makers outside
The 1st rd.
Steelers Antonio Brown 6th rd pick
Bengals Geno Atkins 4th rd Vontaze Burfict undrafted
Patriots Tom Brady 6th rd Julian Edelman undrafted
Chiefs Justin Houston 3rd rd
Colts T.Y Hilton 4th rd
The regime has to find game changers not just a starter.
It's gonna take more than just Corey Coleman studding out
It's needs more than half it's draft class to be game changers in order to close the gap with the rest of the North.

Question - but is it possible to sign a player who does not want to stay on the team??? Please enlighten me.

Mack didn't want to be here - from memory he signed for less elsewhere. Schwartz I am not so sure about - but from memory I am certain we were negotiating with him up to the point we felt like we were just being used and then we stopped.

If you say we had to sign those guys no matter the cost - how much do you over pay them??? 10-15%? Might not be enough - and do you really want a cancer in the locker room who will probably be PO'd at some point? 20-25% ????

Seems you are venting and showing frustration and getting angry about something the FO tried to do but players weren't willing to stay.... we had the same issue last year with Jordan Cameron - how foolish we'd have looked to overpay him and then get the production he's shown in Miami? What about Travis Benjamin .... ? Did we need to keep him?

Of all the guys that left - Schwatz was the one guy I wanted back. As good as Mack has been he clearly wanted no part of resigning. I hoped we could make a play for Schwartz. But - we didn't .... move on.

I'm happy to give Haslam a pass on Banner - he was recommended to him and the NFL basically orchastrated that hire for Haslam. . . . I'll give credit to Haslam for axing Farmer and Pet after it was such a disaster . . . I hope like hell that he is no longer trying to offer any opinion relating to the running of the FO after hit disastrous start as an owner. . . I get the impression that is the case. . . . I also hope he doesn't get involved with the marketing side of the business either. Game day experience for my one game last year was painful and cringeworthy.

What's so shocking about putting a QB through a psych exam? I'm supposed to believe having dinner and talking "football" is a better use of time?

They should and probably do both. Dinner and a shrink!

When you are planing on investing that kinda money in a person, you do what you must to be as sure as you can. I would..

Holy cow dude! You're still pushing the "Butt Hurt" Conspiracy Theory? Considering the hype about a RT commanding $10-12 mil/year around that time, I think it's more likely his agent was the one who acted in poor faith when the Browns made their offer, probably giving them the middle finger for such a "low ball" offer.

As for re-signing cancers... I don't think that had we super overpaid someone like Mack to stay automatically means he'd be a cancer... but for a team that not only has to rebuild the roster, but the actual culture, I think there is a concern about having a player who's there just to collect a paycheck. Again, I wouldn't say for sure that Mack would become one of those types of players, but the more you have to overpay to convince a guy to stay there, the further away you get from a "team first" mentality IMO. (reference Dwayne Bowe)

And let's not assume that just because Mack wasn't re-signed that the FO did something wrong. For all we know Mack could have liked the direction and philosophy of this FO but maybe he just isn't interested in rebuilding a team? It's not like he signed with another crappy team.

As to your original post...

Can you expand a little for me just what your criticism is of how the Browns chose to meet with Prescott? To me the exercise asks the QB to take a chaotic mess and put order to it and navigate a progression. Kind of like how I would imagine it would be once the ball is snapped on the field.

So I think the exercise is valid and has merit. Is your concern that they didn't do more with him like have him throw the ball or more of a sit down interview?

Mac - I understand why you're frustrated. We all are. We all want a winning football team - solid drafting - and good players to stay with the team. The carousel at GC and GM inspire no confidence from fans and players alike.

Having said that - you can't tarnish this FO based on the history of what went before. You can't blame Haslam for the offers made or not made by this FO. I can't prove it - but I'd bet my house that if Haslam was dictating what, who and how much to Sashi and this FO - then those in place would simply quit. They don't need an over zealous owner tainting what will become their legacy. That sort of thinking on your part is pure speculation.

You asked me to copy you the contract offer the Browns made to Mack .... your point being that we don't know. . . . and that cuts both ways. Your assumptions are based entirely and wholly on pure speculation .... let it go man.

At least with the opinion I have indicated there is substance, it is KNOWN that Mack didn't want to be here . . . simple. Would we be a better team with Mack at center - yes. But that doesn't mean much .... Hue and company simply needs to turn this team around without him.... that's the story today and that's all that matters. . . . . . The team would be better with Josh Norman, Eric Weddle and Malik Johnson ...... but guess what. THey aren't here either.

Let's judge the FO on the players they draft and the quality of next years team. We can judge Hue on how the players play for him this year - but we have a bad roster.