DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Barkevious Mingo Traded

Mac Quixote?

I will be the first to admit that I'm not a capologist... but if we are so flush with cap space, even if it is considered temporary, why did we play such hardball with Mack, Schwartz, and Gipson?

On top of which, having that cap space means never having to lose the players you drafted that you covet. Keep in mind, when I speak of that, I'm talking about ONLY the best of what we've drafted.

Also keep in mind, you can't keep a guy that doesn't want to be here. (mack)'

Just because you have cap room does not mean you should overpay players. Our front office likely set a price which they thought was good value for each player and were unwilling to go over that price.

If you overpay players, it will eventually come back to haunt you.

With all that said, the front office may have assigned the wrong values to the players in question and maybe should have been willing to pay them more. I don't know. Also, some of the players that left may have made up their mind that they were leaving and weren't going to accept any contract. I don't know.

Not never. Sometimes.

“We want to have a program that is sustainable,” [Sashi] Brown said. “As short as these guys’ careers are, if you are building with players whose careers are half over, it is hard to sustain.

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/05/04/cleveland-browns-nfl-draft-hue-jackson-paul-depodesta-sachi-brown

I believe Mack was leaving unless we offered him the moon and stars, according to what I read, we pulled our offer to Schwartz before he even had a chance to respond to it and from what I understand, he was interested in staying.. I'm not sure what Gipson's situation was.

But the reality of the situation is that the Browns are not very good and will have to pay a bit of a premium to keep good players.. when you consider that Cleveland the city is not a strong selling point for many and the team is bad, it doesn't take much for most players to find a reason to sign with somebody else. Until we get better, we are going to have to pay above market value to keep good players..

What about Joe Thomas and Joe Haden? Our two best draft picks since 1999 both signed extensions that were of market value. Neither of them have ever been on a team that is any good (consistently).

I liked Mingo he had a ton of potential that no one seemed to be able to tap into bet the house BB will tap that potential. I wish him the very best of luck in his new beginning he was a class guy when he was here.

If I may, there are always exceptions. Players have different priorities, different view points. For some, like Thomas, loyalty is a big deal. For others, money is more important, and still others what is best for their family rules their decision making. I think DC's point is that, generally speaking...

I guess you didn't read a little further where I stated:

Pats lost a couple of edge-rushers, which is probably the main reason they added Mingo.

We had a lot of linebackers, one of the main reasons we jumped at the trade.

So when you say "never" you mean "sometimes."

Usually...

National media thinks NE is gonna make Mingo the next JJ Watt

Anyone get look good with a bunch of talent around them

Justin Gilbert would be Revis if he was in the Pats or Bronco defense

Pats got Chris Hogan who was nothing in Buffalo now he is Wes Welker

I don't like this FO at all ... Not sure why the consternation about this trade though ... He did not play well for us .. I think it was a very good trade for us ..

Trading is about the only thing this FO has done I like about them ... I thought they traded down to much in this draft but they did a good job of it for the most part ..

I see no downside to this trade .. And what Mingo does for NE means nothing .. There D is in a slightly different position than ours ...

Right. Just ask Leonard Marshall. He didn't look nearly as good without LT. I know a lot of people were down on BM but he did play hurt and let's face it, we had coaches who didn't use him right. He should have worked on his strength and rushed the passer. You may have seen a different player. I like him and wish him well.

Have you ever read Pit's sig?

Guys like you and cfrs can spin, spin, spin.............but, losing your home-grown talent [by talent===I mean good players] is not a smart or good thing.

So you the Browns should do what ever it takes to retain Justin Gilbert, no matter if they have to over pay him even more. Have to retain that your home-grown talent

How did you miss this part?



Or, are you just trying to start another dumb argument?

Does a player have to have talent to be a first round pick?

A player has to have talent just to get to the NFL level.

And he is home-grown talent.

Weren't you warned about further suspensions if the bickering continued?

Please stop trying to cause trouble.

No bickering I see you only believe in retaining home-grown talent if it's someone you like. Got it. Have a great day!

I am not trying to speak for Vers, but man .... home grown implies some growth, and good players speaks for itself. Players I have seen referred to, like Gilbert, have not grown, and in fact, it appears evident that his talent is not NFL caliber. (no matter his original draft position) I doubt that many people would argue against the opinion that an UDFA like TaShan Gipson both has more talent, and is a better player than Justin Gilbert.

Speaking only for myself, now, it appears that Mack was out of here, no matter what occurred with his contract. I can accept his moving on. However, the others are more difficult to accept, as I believe that we could have used some of the $50 million in cap room that we have to bring most of the others, or even all of them, back.

I have also seen some argue, using Gordon as a counter argument. I think that we can all agree that Gordon has significant issues, and has constantly let the team, his coaches, and his teammates down far more often than he has performed at a high level on the field. The ability to actually play has to be part of the equation, and Gordon has been unable to play in 43 of the last 48 games. I cannot understand how people can discount this fact. Yes he is talented. Yes, he can be magical when allowed to just use his talent. However, he has been suspended for 43 of the last 48 games, and in those 5 games he was ill prepared, and seemed unwilling, or unable, to learn the simplest plays. These are all factors, even when considering a player with potential Hall of Fame physical talent.

Just a few thoughts on the matter.

1). So the FO should evaluate the player and decide if the player is right for what they are doing and do they want to spend the money asked by the player?


2). Does the player want to play for them?

So the FO did what they believed was best for the direction they were going it was right for them.

Has Mingo lived up to expectations?

Could you say Mingo has not grown, and in fact, it appears evident that his talent is not NFL caliber. (no matter his original draft position)

sheooot...all I can say is. What was our record with all those "good" players? you know the ones we just flat out "refused" to re-sign.

give me a second....hmmm..wait it's coming to me...ohhh yea 3-13.

Screw that spin crap. I'm not an apologist for the FO.

Pits' sig should have regard because it is a quote by Sashi. So then should the quote I posted because it too is a quote by Sashi. You like Pits' quote because it fits your agenda of turning it to use against the FO. But you don't like my quote because it's "spin". Put the two quotes together and they form a complete idea.

You do need to keep your own. But if you're starting over with a rebuild, (as the Browns obviously are whether you want that, like that, or not), then it doesn't make sense to pay out large money to players whose careers are half over, (The NFL claims that the average career is about 6 years for players who make a club's opening day roster in their rookie season). By the time you build a core of new players and are ready to compete those guys are at the end of their career and need replaced. They'll get replaced by rookies who will hold back the progress you worked for, (C, RT, and by then RG and LT as well). That's 4/5 of the OL that would have to be rebuilt in 3-4 years. That's hardly building a sustainable team starting from now.

Like it or not we're starting from now. We're not sustaining from now. If they can build the OL starting from now then they can sustain it for the next 6 years. Otherwise it will be in a constant flux.

It might work and it might not work. It might be a good idea and it might not be a good idea. But if you open your mind enough to try to understand what they're trying to do in building the team instead of holding steadfast onto your own idea of the "only" way to build the team you might see the sense in it. Or you might not because it might not make any sense.

And get this, it's not my idea. It's not even that I think this is the best idea, or even a good one. It just seems to be the way they are thinking. I merely pointed that out. So I don't need to be on one of your "lists" of names to get published for all to see or who gets labeled as "positive" or now within a group who "spins" things simply because you don't agree with the premise.

Either way it doesn't make me one who creates "spin" in an attempt to defend them. To you it's spin because it doesn't fit your ideas.

Now I expect one of your one word replies like, "Amazing", rather than explaining why you think I'm misunderstanding what they are trying to do or explaining what you think they're doing or what would be a more logical sequence to build the team from the ground up.

Are those players the problem ...... or is it that we didn't have enough of those players?

Put Tom Brady on an awful team, and you still have a bad team. The team would be better than without him, but it would still be a poor team.

Then, because the team is a poor team, would you be OK if the team let Brady walk ...because they weren't very good with him ...... ?

I also think that player development has been completely derailed by the ever constantly changing turnover in the front office and coaching staffs. We absolutely should not stick with a failing staff .... but it's almost impossible to decide that after only a year, or maybe 2.

This team has done so many things incorrectly that it's not even funny.

I have both praised the FO and criticized them. I like some of their moves and have not liked other moves. Yet somehow, you gotta come w/crap like the above.

I do not think it is a good thing to have talent and then not keep them. Mack was the only one who was not young, but even he has several years left to play. Centers can play a long time.

I think that good, homegrown players should be retained. If you wanna slap a label like "agenda" on it, go ahead.

For the life of me, I can't figure out how anyone can believe that is a rational argument.

I'm with you, Vers. I have questioned this "logic" a few times.

Mack and Schwartz and Gipson were on a crappy 3 win team, so they were not needed. How does our OL look so far this preseason? How does our secondary look so far this preseason?

Oh, that's right. It's preseason. It's a new coaching staff. There are new players. We are not going to showcase the advanced stuff like pass protection, tackling, run defense, and pass coverage until the season starts. Don't worry yet, Cap, we're only doing a vanilla offense and defense right now. We're going to surprise everyone when it counts.

Anyone who thinks we it's not possible to do worse than 3-13 doesn't understand arithmetic. Anyone who thinks this team won't do worse than 3-13 is watching a different team than I am.

almost impossible to due worse than last year. the only def. guy you mentioned was Gibson...so you sayin' than he and he alone was our def. and we can't live with out him? hmmm now who needs a refresher on arithmetic? forgive me if I don't wallow in despair cuz those three are gone. If Mack himself came to some of our houses and shook some of us and said "listen I wasn't going to resign any deal. I wanted out" that still would not be enough for some of you.
some of us would answer "he didn't mean it, he is just being polite." c'mon gimmie a break already... old news and dead news to me.

for the life of me, I can't figure out how some of us think that they really wanted to be here. when the players themselves came out an said they wanted to play else where.

Mack and Gipson were bouncing out guys. Come on. They wasn't gonna stay on this squad

Schwartz had an offer, decided to say F that and tested the market. Clearly he didn't want to be here either.

And we aren't gonna miss Benji.

Those players were on losing team after losing team, with the combined fact that they were living in cleveland.

Sometimes, it really is that simple. You guys are crying over guys that didn't want to be here.

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/08/28/colin-kaepernick-national-anthem-49ers-nfl-peter-king