DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Andy Lee traded to the Panthers

I'm not saying Lee isn't good. I just don't think any punter should be paid $3M (and I think the front office agrees with me). They were probably going to cut him and got lucky because another team was willing to give up something for him.

Cheap punters, good punters can be found pretty easily. If they are not good they can be cut and replaced easily as well. There is a reason no one really drafts them in the draft earlier than the fifth round (with rare exceptions).

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/pl...rder_by=default

You are on a roll tonight...amazing. You wanna show me where I called him a "bum"? Stop with your generalizing...

Agree with this. It was a combo platter.

http://www.locker-report.com/2016/06/10/...h.sxU1JQqV.dpbs

For the past two seasons as a member of the Jacksonville Jaguars, Kasey Redfern demonstrated one thing – his ability to be an effective NFL punter. Now as a member of the San Diego Chargers, will this be the year for the journeyman punter from the NFL Regional Combine process to make a NFL roster?

In seven preseason games for the Jags, Redfern averaged over 46 yards per punt, with a couple of attempts spanning 59 yards in 2014. Out of eight punts last season, the product from Wofford nailed three inside the 20 and one touchback.

Redfern was signed to the Chargers’ practice squad in December, proving that his talent is recognized.

However, what will it take for Redfern to plant punts in the NFL during the regular season?

Redfern turned heads in his Houston-held NFL Regional Combine session, and wowed scouts and coaches at the NFL Super Regional Combine in Detroit in 2014. The Jaguars signed him as an undrafted free agent after the 2014 NFL Draft.

Among Redfern’s peers from the RC who starring in the NFL are Pro Bowler John Hekker (Los Angeles Rams), Jordan Berry (Pittsburgh Steelers) and Jacob Schum (Tampa Bay Buccaneers). The platform did not host a session for the kickers and punters in this year’s workouts. The decision to exercise kicking specialists for next year’s RC workouts will be revisited.

The 6-2, 215-pound competitive punter from North Carolina is confident that his skill set will eventually boot him onto a 53-man active roster sooner rather than later.

Redfern may have an edge for being a veteran punter in the Chargers’ camp as he is competing against rookie Drew Kaser from Texas A&M for the job, which won’t be a cake walk.

Kaser was drafted in the sixth round (179th-overall) by the Chargers in the 2016 NFL Draft. The 6-2, 212-punter from Ohio was a Ray Guy Award finalist (an award given to the nation’s most outstanding punters) in his sophomore season.

There are no absolutes in the NFL, and everything is earned, not given.

Clearly, Redfern is long overdue as he earned his chance.

http://www.startribune.com/vikescentric-ranking-the-top-vikings-free-agent-targets-30-26/289319611/

The average punter will have a get-off time at 1.3 seconds, usually below. Jeff Locke’s is closer to 1.35. For comparison, undrafted free agent punter Kasey Redfern (who isn’t with a team right now), averaged 1.25 seconds in the preseason.

This all sounds pretty good.

It really didn't bother me he didn't try to make that tackle in a meaningless preseason game. The guy is a stick figure. His ass is no wider than a pencil. It's not like his main use is as a tackler. I'm sure if it was a regular season game he'd have made an attempt.

This is only a speculation but perhaps there was a conversation about it in which he was insubordinate enough to get fired.

My problem is that for a team who has little chance to move the chains a good punter is a real asset. This is a case where one player can make a big difference. The field position game is important for an already struggling defense. Hue knows that. But if lack of effort is what got him and Kruger fired then they are trying to send a message that it doesn't matter who you are you have to go hard.

The problem with letting Gilbert go is that he has them over a financial barrel right now. Let's see what happens when they cut to 53. If they really want to send a message then eating that much money by cutting him could do it.

I think it was age and where the team is at as much as anything. We're going to be really bad this year. Might as well go for broke. The guy we got in the trade while probably some drop off might not be that much of one if he continues to develop. Plus, we got a pretty good pick.

Was Lee the holder, too?

I disagree completely !!

Lee was a very good punter - heck he might have been the best player on the team if he had stayed. . . And if you think the team is making decisions to trade out a good punter based on the salary numbers . . . that's where i disagree entirely.

We've talked about culture - accountability - playing like a Brown and then people scoff at it and laugh at the FO's ineptitude because Gilbert can't get out of bed in the morning and Johnny is late for meetings or whatever the scandal of the week was..... and then when we have a FO that actually cuts Kruger for not performing - trades the punter because he flat out shows a lack of any effort .... suddenly we have fans complaining and saying we are tanking and trying to save money. . . . makes no sense. Or it does make sense if you consider some people just aint happy less they are complaining about something. There's so many good things about this trade.

- we got a freaking 4th round pick.

- we got a decent young punter into the deal as well... and while I am not going to tell anyone the punter and kicker aren't important ... I'll challenge anyone who is getting upset about this move to list every position on the team in order of importance and post it - let me see where you rank the punter in the big picture.

- FO sent a message that effort is important .... and anyone thinking Hue Jackson is on board with a losing team and a losing effort is simply not playing attention. Dude was PISSED at the effort in Preseason game 3. Dude came out today and said starters will be playing game 4 ... we will see how much, but i heard Hue today and felt there was a message to any player that they need to buck it up/

- The people crying about trading our punter generally seem to be the people that think the Browns are going to suck worse than ever this year .... tell me why a team that sucks so badly needs an elite punter????

- Lastly, it seems that people judge this FO ability to draft based on what Farmer and Lombardi/Banner and others before did .... and that because we've been bad before we'll draft badly again. What hogwash. . . . the middle rounds where others often find the core of a team is a numbers game. Maybe someone smart can find the article - but they have analyzed the teams that draft well and build through the draft ... and while the Patriots of the world and the Ravens et al all do a little bit better overall than average .... the real secret to success is having more picks in those middle rounds to get lucky with. . . oh and wait - the Browns FO is copying that proven winning formula and now we have fans who want to complain that we are following other teams patterns of success.... smh.

Let's get real.

You would have NEVER made such a comment if the FO had kept Andy Lee instead of trading him.

Secondly, a punter is extremely important. Are you saying that field position is NOT important?

So why are guys like Gilber, Haden, Shelton, Gordon, and Winston still on the team.

It's about money.

are we really going to hate on the FO cuz the punter got the axe? wow that makes 3 threads and counting

Not saying you are wrong but maybe the effort has been there in 2016 from those players.

Seriously?

Gilber said he would rather sleep in rather than study like K. Williams.

Williams is gone. Gilber is here.

"We" aren't, but I am! It's a dumb-ass move and I am mad about it. It's a message board. I am expressing my opinion.

Again I am not saying you are wrong. But, that was in the past. With Hue you have to only include what they have done for him during spring, summer, and training camp in 2016.

Did they cut Gilber today?

No. I have not read where he was cut.

He was booming punts in preseason. A Pro Bowl punter is an asset, the non-attempt to tackle is not important in the pre-season.

Totally disagree. Effort is always important.

So, why are guys like Gilber and Haden on the team?

How have they performed during training camp so far? Have you went to every practice? That is all I am saying.

No, I haven't.

Have you?

If not, how can you say those other guys were dogging it?

Are you seriously arguing this? Gilber has been freaking quoted as saying he would rather sleep than study.

Get real, boss.

That was 3 years ago.

Posters are talking about their effort THIS year with a new HC and FO.

So it seems like THIS year, the effort is there.

It wasn't 3 years ago.

And do you think Gilber is trying hard?

Swish.............this crap is about money. You, of all people, should get it.

You and I will hold Gilbert's past against him but I do not believe Hue will. I have not read anywhere that Gilbert had been sleeping or dogging it this year.

Have you read that Kruger and Lee were sleeping?

I seen Lee dogging it!!!!

if it is all about the money, then why in the hell is Gilber still here? riddle me that one

I've seen Gilber, Gordon, and Haden dogging it.

This year?

LOL.................whatever. Your mind is made up. This isn't a discussion. It's a bitch-slapping contest.

I have seen Kruger play very lazy in setting the edge. Happened with him quite a bit, actually.

how was Haden been dogging it? thought he was hurt and just got cleared for practice? I'll have to look that one up. never heard anyone say Gordon was dogging this year either...now Gilber I can believe that one.

j/c

I dunno, I don't think the physical portion has been Gilbert's problem.

I think his issues are more between the ears.

I don't think he's been taking it easy on the field, but making bad decisions, sure.

Right or wrong, Kruger seemed to be saving himself for the season. Hue seems to be big on getting better every day. Some of the older guys apparently weren't.

You are so flippin' full of yourself with so little reason.

YOU do HAVE to let them. Quite literally there is nothing that YOU can do a effect their decision making or change what just happened. So as long as YOU pay attention to this team whether as a fan or, as seems more likely, as a reason for you to flex your muscles on the internet, YOU will have to wait and see if they're right.

Now I can't help you with your thin skinned, fragile mental make up that causes you such anguish at all the people who question you about a team that you have no say in its operations. But I for one would suggest professional help. Of course I can't make you because you ain't controlled by guys like me, I'm just offering some friendly advice.

As to the topic at hand. Despite the lunatic ravings of some people who think they have a say in team operations I think was a decent move for a rebuilding team that'she trying to instill discipline.

j/c
I like Andy Lee, and really enjoyed watching him boom long punts when needed, and pinning opponents inside the 5 when he could. I'm sorry to see him go.

But this team is rebuilding. As useful as a really good punter is, he's a chandelier and we are still building the foundation. We gave up a proven commodity for kid with potential (based on the article Deputy posted) and swapped a 7th for a 4th round pick.

That 4th rounder will be in 2018. While this year the FO was looking trade back for quantity of picks, by then they may well be looking to trade up for quality. That 4th rounder could make it possible to move up a few spots to grab a guy who has slipped further down the board than anticipated. You never know. Turning a 7th into a 4th is a good move.

Really hate it that he had to go. Yeah and hopefully Kasey will be a great punter for the Browns.

I don't think effort has ever been a problem for Haden or Shelton. There are reports that effort has not been an issue for Gordon this year. Not sure why you brought Winston up. The guy is Bigfoot. I'm not sure he actually exists. How can something that doesn't actually exist have poor effort?

For Gilbert, give it time. He's probably not on the opening day roster.

J/C

A cut punter gets its own thread, 3 pages no less; and a marquee big name, big dollar FA acquisition from a few years back gets his airing in the general cuts thread. It says something that we hang onto this as the punter position has gave us some of the best, most consistent play, much like Dawson. It's sad that we get upset about the loss of special teams as its the only thing we've had to hang our hats on.

Perspective though. If a punter was drafted in the 4th round, people would lose their minds. For a 30 year old, with potential diminishing skills and a saving on the cap....well.....analytics right?
Can see both sides though. Lee was great for us, hope the new guy gives us absolutely nothing to talk about because those same folks that might say we can easily replace the position and the production with a stroke of a pen clearly don't recall Derrick Frost shanked 7 yard punts digging us into a hole.

Good luck Andy... I enjoyed watching your booming kicks.
Funny,I thought when we moved past Josh Cribbs being as our best player we were on our way to respectability.
Oh how I loin for Josh- Haha
No really, us getting a fourth round pick in amazing,
Like Riddler said by 2018 that could mean a move for a coveted player, we just don't know at this point.

So watching these moves, I would say we have a "new base" of players.
Its a risk for sure but probably necessary if the browns as an organization are REALLY trying to change the culture.

Look we all have been waiting a long time but this fan is willing to watch this play out.
Actually I'm going to try and enjoy the ride. Right now it's hard, very hard to watch,
but at some point staying the course will pay off.
I believe we have a great coaching staff in place and players that want to be coached.
if not, they are making changes as evident with some of these roster moves.
If I was Gilbert, would definitely not be sleeping easy.

Show me where and how Gilbert, Haden, Gordon and Winston have shown a lack of effort for this Front Office?? --> You can't.

And the example wasn't set in a vacuum - we got a pick as well. (Does anyone think Lee would be gone if we'd have not been offered the pick?) .... And by extrapolation - if we got a 4th round pick for a punter ... we'd be offered a higher round pick for any of the four guys you mention... And I am certain Gilbert would be gone if we were offered even a 4th frankly. If someone offered a 3rd or higher I'd be willing to bet Shelton would be gone.

Hating on this Lee trade is simply wanting to be an agitator.