DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Browns Front Office....still not ready for prime time..(imo)

like Schwartz Mack took less money to play else where...end of story

Less total money; more guaranteed money.

Not sticking up for Browns' evaluation method, but since they drafted Roethlisberger in 2004, the Steelers have drafted Omar Jacobs, Dennis Dixon, and Landry Jones (he of the 4 1st-half INTs) at quarterback. Not exactly a sterling history since getting one right either.

Some tend to forget that important clarification.

Mac is basing his attack on the Browns FO using information that is incomplete. We've seen Dak Prescott play pretty well this preseason. And he may end up being the next big thing in the NFL,, I don't know.

But I think it's smarter to wait to see how he does against some top talent that is scheming against him.

Then we'll see if it was a major blunder by the Browns.

Personally, I think he'd have been a better pick, but hey, I really don't know

play out your contract and less is less no matter how you slice it.

How many NFL players play out their contracts without renegotiating or restructuring?

can't find Mac's post, so i'm just going to qoute this one.

Who did Prescott beat out? He is only starting because Romo got hurt...really tho, who did he beat out? Moore? Showers? never heard of either one before.
on a side note I have seen teams go 4-0 in preseason and then go 2-14 reg season...means nothing yet.

So they gave Dak a psych exam for a psych major? I bet he understands the significance of the test. DC? posted a link in the tailgate forum about the Browns psychology angle. Long story short, the guy got fired after the draft -- guess they didn't value him that much -- and is now being interviewed by the Patriots... A team that can actually draft QB's, unlike the Stoolers.

Also, what the heck is a Leadership degree from an SEC school anyway?

Prescott is the flavor of this year's preseason. He came in against other team's backups and had a couple of really nice outings. Of all of the teams who passed on him 3/4 times, we're the idiots who couldn't see it.

How many fourth round quarterbacks had any success as starters their rookie year?

Here is a list of every QB selected in the 4th round:

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/pl...er_by=career_av

I don't remember any of them having better than average success in their rookie seasons. If Prescott is good he will be an extreme outlier.

You've got to admit, the whole top of that list are QBs who stuck around the league for some time. A couple had reasonably successful careers.

But not as rookies. Which is my point. Prescott may turn out to be good, he probably won't be good this year.

888...this front office is responsible for their actions..their judgement..and ultimately, the Harvard boys should be held responsible for every draft pick they make and each trade or cut they make, each personnel move.

If this front office is going to hold the players responsible for their performances, Sashi and Depo should be held responsible for every move they make.



This is where you and I take different paths. If I were a betting man, I would own your house!

The purse strings to the Browns vault do not stop at the front office. Haslam has been a business man for most of his life and there is no way you can convince me that he would allow his brand new front office to spend his money..that does not happen in Cleveland without final approval from Mr and Mrs Haslam.

Sashi and Depo will not quit if overruled or dictated by Mr & Mrs H. I'm quite certain that Haslam pays his management very well and they are not about to give up their paycheck because the owners are very hands on.

Everyone that Haslam hired knows very well who is in charge and who has the final say on most money issues...such as player contracts.





888...the reason you can't find any figures concerning the offer the Browns made to Mack to try to keep him in Cleveland...there was no contract offer made. Once Mack opted out of his contract, there is no evidence to back up the claim that the Browns front office tried to re-sign him. The Browns front office followed orders from the owners...let Mack go.

Mack's agent said the door was open for the Browns to re-sign Mack.

"Mack's agent, Tim Younger, said that Mack's return to Cleveland is a real option."Alex is definitely leaving open the possibility of returning," Younger said via email.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/14884993/cleveland-browns-alex-mack-opting-contract






888...you will have to forgive me...I am NOT STAR STRUCK by a Harvard educated baseball Moneyballer and a Harvard educated lawyer who is now in his first year as a Pro Football GM. Just not enough "football experience" in their background to impress me..and they have already passed on talent that would have helped to build the Browns into a winner.

Also, as everyone should know, Jimmy Haslam is a "hands on" owner and just how much influence Mrs H. has over Browns is unknown at this time. Jimmy H. just started his "second" 5 yr plan, totally screwing up the team that he bought in 2012. No need to recap the nightmare of mistakes Haslam and his many front office flunkies are responsible for. All the Browns fans have to do is look at those teams in the hunt for a playoff birth and find the players that used to be Browns...players that Haslam and boys judged as unfit to play for Cleveland. Many have played in the playoffs and some even have Super Bowl rings..but they were not good enough for the Browns owner and his many management teams.

Mr and Mrs H. and their Harvard educated front office will have to earn my respect and support. Making good football decisions is what it's all about...don't screw up and don't focus on the crap that has little to do with finding good football players.

I look at what could have been...for example...if the Browns had retained Mack and Schwartz...management would have surrounded RG 3 with
...the best OLine they could provide.
...We had TEs Barnidge and Bibbs
...WRs Pryor, Gordon (-4 games), along with the best WRs from the 2015 team that was ranked 16th in the NFL in yds per game. Receiving was not the Browns greatest weakness heading into the 2016 season, that is a fact., This front office used 5 of their 14 draft picks on 1 TE and 4 WRs and added more Free Agent WRs and TEs. What the Browns spent on receiving was a bit too much, imo.
...RBs Crowell, Johnson,

This offensive group could have developed into a productive unit had the front office followed some kind of plan. The key to this offense will be "protecting the QB". If this offensive line cannot protect the QB, Hue's offense will sputter.

Then the Browns could have focused most of their draft on the defensive side of the ball, the area of the team that is the weakest and in need of the most improvement.

Instead of tearing the team down and starting a new 5 yr plan, the Browns could have retained their best and added via the draft and free agency if necessary...and had a decent team this year. Not a playoff team, but a team that might have been "average".


Below is quote from Sashi when he was questioned by reporters at the combine...


"And so it is important for us to keep our own, I think it says something to the locker room when you reward guys that do it the right way and make sure that they understand that being here in Cleveland we want to build through the draft certainly but we also need to retain our guys when we get to free agency."

http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2016/2/25/1...bine-transcript

After going on record about how important it was for the Browns to retain their own free agents...something changed all that. Someone decided that the Browns would not retain any of their free agents. There is no way that I'm going to believe that Sashi would go back on his own public comments about how important it was for the Browns to retain their own players when they get to free agency.

...someone above Sashi's pay grade made the final decision about retaining our own free agents..that would mean it was Mr or Mrs H. If Sashi was going to quit over principle, I would think this situation would qualify. Those working for the Haslam's know who is "the boss"...and those working for the Haslam's are paid well.



"I think it says something to the locker room when you reward guys that do it the right way," Brown said, "and make sure that they understand that being here in Cleveland we want to build through the draft certainly but we also need to retain our guys when we get to free agency."

Prescott is walking into a situation that is about as good as it gets.. short of maybe taking over in Denver where very little will be expected. Cowboys have a stellar OL, a fresh new RB, Dez Bryant and Jason Witten... but he is going to have to be productive because their defense is very suspect.

j/c:

Another day, and two more higher priced players gone. No one wants to hear it, but mac's assertion about Haslam might not be as wild as most of you pretend it to be.

I don't buy it for one reason. Teams have to spent 89% of the cap as it is averaged over a 4 year period.

They obvioulsy felt this was a year to cut cap, agree or disagree. At some point we are going to have to spend.

We are re-tooling. We want to spend the money on the guys we want to spend it on. Again, agree or disagree on who we have cut.

It's not like Haslam can run it on the cheap from here on out, not that I think he has to this point.

See, this is the kind of statement that blows my mind. When mac makes a ludicrous statement, y'all line up to chastise him. However, when you say something like this......those same people ignore.

Can you provide some proof as to how Haslam has not been cheap in regards to signing/keeping players?

can you prove he is telling his staff who to sign and who not too...who to let go..and how much a player is to be paid? THAT line of thinking is just wow out there

what two higher priced guys gone..Kruger yes..the other? I sure hope you dont mean Kwaun Williams and his $600,000 due this year and his total 1.53 mil over 3 years contract.

http://overthecap.com/player/kwaun-williams/3773/

What? I already spelled it out. I am not going to repeat myself. Read my last post.


Seems you are putting me on the defense, thus, I don't have to prove a thing. That burden is on you my man.

Probably referring to Andy Lee and his 2.83 million due this year..

Dawg ok didn't know Lee was due the 2.8. but would be the first time I have seen someone upset that the Punter was cut.

LOL

Not sure how you spelled it out?

Gipson?

Mack?

Schwartz?

Benji?

Whit?

Dansby?

Skrine?

Sheard?

Kruger?

Lee?

The dude is a tight-ass who is more interested in marketing his product than winning football games and you guys buy right into it.

I'd totally agree with you, and mac, if that money went into Haslem's pocket. But it doesn't.

Yeah, Haslam does not make any profit off of the Browns.

He is a life-long Browns fan who pours every cent back into the organization and is not interested in making any money.

LOL............some of you are just as bad as mac.

There's a salary floor, so he can't be a complete cheapskate when it comes to players. He'll have to hit that mark one way or another. It depends on how you define cheap, I suppose. It's a weird situation where one can call spending tens of millions of dollars on something cheap.

We're going young. Young players have "limited" (slotted/lesser?) contracts. We're going to keep a lot of young players on the roster most likely. What do you expect the salary cap situation to be?

Once/if we find a QB, we'll frontload a contract and hit near the cap.



Link

Nearly one quarter of the cap on 1 player!

Not having a QB worth paying a mega-contract could be a reason for Haslam's apparent cheapness. If we find a good/great QB, That guy's going to want (some might say deserve) a mega-contract.

I thought you had me on ignore?

j/c

side note: Plus, it looks like we're going to be paying a bunch of high first rounders in the near future.

Thank goodness for the slotting now, Sam Bradford style rookie contracts would have really poured gasoline on our dumpster fire.

Shoot, the Browns will trade them for a bunch of 4th rounders.

I do, but I can't resist clicking sometimes, especially when you've been quoted in someone else's posts. *shrug*

And posts that I find interesting whether or not I agree with them have been somewhat lacking recently. I strangely miss arguing with you. I must have some masochistic tendencies floating around somewhere.

Yeah right. LOL

Could be, but I think need and draft board might match up well next year at the top.

Myles Garrett and Jabril Peppers in the first. Maybe package some of our 4th rounders for a D-Lineman earlier. Get a versatile interior lineman who can road grade, we'll have to replace Greco before too long.

Sometimes I let my hope shade things a bit.

I've got my fingers crossed for RG3 to not crash and burn.

Of course he makes money. Of course he doesn't pour every cent back into the organization and of course he is very interested in making that money. Halsem makes a bundle off the Browns. That's to be expected. But the cap savings does not go into his pocket. That is the point I'm making. Being cheap on the roster doesn't make a difference in his pocket money. Oh, and btw, your take is so much more mac than mine.

J/C
So what happens IF some of these players start panning out, in two-three years we start re-doing contracts.
Lets hope we get to that place.
Then a few free agents sprinkled in here and there and Bam!,
we spend Haslem's money. Let alone if we get lucky w/ RG3 and pay him real money.

Right now in my opinion is setting up for the next two-three years.
I know it's ugly, like real ugly but I'm not against this philosophy.
We can take a page from the Raiders if and only if we start hitting on some players.
Maybe we can build our beloved Browns back to respectability.

Mac - you mention Harvard in your post so many times, it made me think that the beef you have with the FO is as much based on a dislike of where the FO were educated and the perception of entitlement that those people might of had??

Does it matter what this FO's education was? Whether it was Bowling Green or Yale/Ivy League??? I don't ever recall anyone ever mentioning any other GM's alma mater .... why does it matter now?

Regarding your points:

- Sashi and Depo are on the line for every move they make. That's accountability. Every move and draft pick they make is not going to be right. In fact if 50% of them are near the mark, then they'll be doing pretty well I think. It's too early to tell how they are doing in my opinion. Of the FA's that walked, I am only truly upset that we didn't land Schwartz. Mack didn't want to be here (imo - what his agent says publicly has no credibility. Drew Rosenhaus might be the famous 'bad guy' agent, but the principles he operates under are true for all agents, angling for the best deal for their client. Often that also means fostering a good PR image). I don't think Benji will earn his cntract with the Chargers ... actually I would have liked Tashaun Gipson back too, I think he was good for the Browns. . . . But assuming the FO missed on two important re-signings, Schwartz and Gipson ... It's their first year, new team, rebuilding (regardless of what we hope for) and I am ok giving them a pass on those 2 guys. . . of much more importance is who they drafted and the impact they have.

- We also differ on our opinions of ownership. Let's say the Browns organization is worth about a Billion. You think Haslam and Mrs H are so ignorant and egotistical that they think they will dabble with football decisions that will impact their Billion dollar investment while they know virtually nothing about football and actually running a team? . . . I disagree. I think they may have with the Manziel pick - and they go their fingers burnt and egg on their face in the worst way - and I think that's to the long term good of them as owners.

- With your "what we could of had" scenario .... we didn't know if Pryor was going to make the transition. Based on LAST YEAR - he was a LONG SHOT. You want the FO to make draft decisions based on a long QB transitioning to a new position and with the evidence to date having been marginal??? Likewise Gordon .... you wanted the Draft to be based on [1] Goddell doing the right thing [2] Gordon staying clean ???? No man - you can't do that. I think THAT would be recipe for disaster and we'd be back where we were last year again in no time. . . . Bibbs - was a TE I really really liked in training camp and preseason last year. But he didn't cut it under Pet and he didn't cut it under Hue .... so I was wrong. Unless the guy turns up for another team and lights it up - I was wrong, it's that simple.

Anyway - bottom line is we disagree! I understand in part why you feel like you do. I just disagree with how you arrived there. I don't truly care what the organizations, individuals and agents (and players) say to the media.... You always have to read between the lines. I don't fault Sashi for saying what he said at the combine - I think what he said was right. I guess where I see it different than you is that I am willing to let Sashi and the FO decide if the veterans and FA's they let go are the right players for the team they are building - while also being aware of whether the players themselves wanted to be here.