DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Browns Front Office....still not ready for prime time..(imo)

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Winning??? Lol. We couldn't even win with all those players you listed...we were 3-13 last year. It really can't get any worse... I hope.

No offense, sir...........but, cutting or parting ways w/the better players on your team is not the way to win more games.

Here is what I think will happen.

The Browns will suck the next 2-3 years.

The owner will fire everyone.

The new regime will talk about building through the draft.

Contracts will come up.

The Browns will not re-sign those guys.

Brown's homers will say, "we didn't win w/those bums."

And the Merry-Go-Round of Misery will continue on it's never-ending circle of going nowhere.

I've seen that movie before...but the Football Gods are no longer angry and will allow our Cleveland Browns to be victorious. The curse is lifted. Fire up your grills and put your beverages on ice...enjoy watching as this Cinderella Story unfolds.

Okay.

It is my opinion that the Browns are targeting 89 percent of the cap number each year in order to save about 15 million per year in employee/player cost. This is within the CBA rules.

This will put them in a favorable position until the players develop. If they show signs of competitiveness, Haslam may make a run at signing a bunch of players to put them over the top.

But for now, the team is obviously more interested in collecting draft choices for the future.

Cashflow, can be a problem for new owners too.

It's going to be a ugly year.

That is not how it works.

http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2015/3/9/81...9-cash-spending

Until things change, I would say the subject is legit, not dead.

Talk to me about it being dead when we're winning.

it's been dead

So we haven't been to the playoffs since 2001, we haven't had a winning season since when? We've had a revolving door in both coaching and the FO, there's been no games played with the new FO with very little experience in running a football team with this FO......

And you're saying if they're ready for prime time is not a legitimate question?

Now don't get me wrong, I disagree with mac on a lot of things, but for people to presume this FO will be successful is no less funny than mac thinking they won't.

We have no evidence either way and looking at our past combined with this lack of experience in the FO, there's nothing dead about these questions until we have some evidence to base an opinion on.

When Sashi said...
:Sashi Brown, "It's important that we keep our own. "

...is he referring to the people this front office has drafted ?

And this would explain the free agents...

"We’ve identified the guys that we feel like really can help us and fit within the schemes that we’ll be running."

vambo, it could not be any clearer that Sashi was talking about signing our own, with free agency two weeks away. Sashi even goes out of his way to knock down the rumor that the Browns would let all their free agents walk.

Here is another article...titled

THE BROWNS ARE TRYING TO KEEP THEIR OWN


February 25, 2016 10:21 AM By Daryl Ruiter | 92.3 The Fan

That was the message Browns executive vice president of football operations Sashi Brown delivered Thursday at the NFL Combine.

“It is important that we keep our own,” Brown said. “It sends the right message to the locker room when you reward guys that do it the right way and make sure that they understand that being here in Cleveland we want to build through the draft certainly but we also need to retain our guys when we get to free agency. And it’s been tough to do that, largely because there’s been so much transition. So we talked to them about the continuity moving forward that we’re aiming for.”

The perception that the team is just fine letting safety Tashaun Gipson, right tackle Mitchell Schwartz, receiver Travis Benjamin and even 2-time Pro Bowl center Alex Mack walk away is not accurate.

Contrary to reports, the Browns are very active in trying to retain who they’ve identified as key players before they hit the open market.

“We are currently in discussions with a number of our free agents,” Brown said. “There’s a possibility that we’ll have a few back. We won’t be panicked on any one player but there’s some guys that we feel can contribute for us in the fall and we absolutely want to do everything we can to see if we can reach a deal that works for them and us to keep them as Cleveland Browns.”

To that point, Brown met with Benjamin’s agent Wednesday night here in Indianapolis, debunking an NFL Network report earlier this week that talks had broken down and the receiver would hit free agency next month.

Those type of reports are part of the process, if anything to move negotiations forward but Brown admitted Thursday that he and the organization put themselves behind the eight-ball because of another coaching search and front office restructuring.

“I know much is reported and this is the season to report on things but part of the process is where are things and people want to know answers,” Brown said. “We’re behind 2-3 weeks because of the coaching search and I apologized to those guys.”

Brown as well as head coach Hue Jackson met with Mack last week and the Browns hope to renegotiate Mack’s contract before the March 4 deadline for him to opt out.

Brown also has had recent conversations with Schwartz’s camp as well as Tashaun Gipson and he hasn’t forgotten about Craig Robertson, Tank Carder and others.

“This time when a guy is on the fringe of free agency is not the ideal time to be negotiating these contracts,” Brown said. “We will, with earnest, continue to push forward and try to bring back several players. But moving forward we hope to identify these guys a lot earlier than we have in the past.”

Money shouldn’t be a problem for the Browns.

The NFL announced that the team carried the third-most cap space over from 2015 into the 2016 league year at just under $21 million and they will have over $38 million in cap room to work with starting on March 9.
LINK



vambo...if the Browns were not interested in signing any of the 2016 free agents, why would the Browns waste their time talking to them?

I can't place it entirely on Farmer, but I do think he is partially responsible for the FAs we lost. Without the potential for an injury down the road, the Browns lost a lot of leverage. If you weren't from Ohio, would you choose to live here? (Everything else being equal)

It is also clear if they didn't fit what they were doing they wouldn't as they were drafted by someone else not this front office.

Here's a quote from Sashi in Pitts

"We’ve identified the guys that we feel like really can help us and fit within the schemes that we’ll be running."

Pitdawg

I am saying that we have had about five threads to this very topic...I am saying that 50 plus pages on the topic, makes it dead to me...I know all too well who stands where with this FO...nothing more nothing less.

It's re-hash.

Same thing said 50,000 times.

888...This is a partial response to your post...got busy with some other stuff and will respond to the rest as soon as I catch up.





888...while some might be blown away, thinking that Haslam hired some really smart people to fill out his management team...I'm unimpressed. Using the "Harvard" distinction is my way of showing just how unimpressed I am....that's all.






888...IMO, this franchise should be in "crisis mode", given the performance turned in last season and since Haslam bought the team in 2012. Hitting on only 50% of the Browns draft picks is not good enough, especially when it comes to the higher picks in round 1,2,3.

One of the reason my expectations might be higher than some...if you look at where the Browns are drafting in each round, near the top (depending on 2016, 2017 w-l record), those are the best talent in each of those rounds. I rate the Browns 2nd round pick #32 as a player equal to 1st round talent. As long as the Browns continue draft in the top 10 of each draft, my expectations for hitting on draft picks won't change.

I would expect the Browns to hit on at least 75% of their 1,2,3rd round picks...I would expect 50% or the 4 and 5th round picks...25% on 6 and 7th round picks.





Tell me, when will Haslam begin to do what he said he would do?...build the Browns via the draft, using the Steelers as his model? He's had 5 years to begin that program and still has not started it. Haslam's priorities are screwed up...money and cap space are more important to Haslam than building the Browns into a winner...time for fans to realize it and wake up.

Part of building your team via the draft is re-signing your best players to a 2nd contract when their rookie contracts expire. This is how the Steelers built their team, dating back to the 70s. Haslam knows how they built their team to win...Haslam just has other priorities higher than building the Browns into a winning franchise.

Then, don't click on this thread.

You see, I get the feeling this is more about you wanting to dictate what others talk about.

Sorry, but you don't have that power.

umm yes I do lol...

I gotta say, if the Browns dont nut up and pay for Williams ankle surgery, I am gonna go Full Mac on this front office. K1 has been KOed a few times for this franchise putting his long term health on the line and if they dotn take care of him, I will be done with all of them.

Agreed. He should get his medical bills paid for and an injury severance similar to that others have gotten (Willie Green comes to mind).

Take care of the guy is the decent thing to do.

Umm, I don't know if it's that cut and dry. If there is no reason beyond what we've been told, then I'd agree with you to pay for his care. But in this case, I got to think there is more to the story that we don't know.

Let it play out.

bone spurs isnt something that happens overnight. This is something he has probably played with for atleast a year if not longer. Letting it play out in the press isnt what this team needs. Take care of your own and let this incident die a timely death.

Do you believe Haslam wants to be a "hands on" owner?

Haslam had already been a co-owner of a successful franchise for 4 years before buying the Browns in 2012. I have no doubt that Haslam was itching to show everyone that he was more than ready manage his franchise, his way.

Haslam started working at Pilot in 1980 and became President and CEO of Pilot in 1996. It's possible that Haslam believed that his experience as a Co-owner of the Steelers and his decades of experience running Pilot, was more than enough to take over and turn around the Browns franchise. I believe Haslam tried to run the Browns the way he ran Pilot, where he was involved in everything and with his final approval necessary.

Yes, I have no doubt that it was Haslam who picked Manziel. The average fan has no clue about the size of the ego some NFL owners have, especially an owner's first few years as a franchise owner. Take the time to read up on owners like Dan Snyder and you will get some idea how confident/over confident some NFL owners are, thinking they know all that is needed to be a successful owner. I'm sure Haslam's ego took a hit when he failed to turn the Browns into a winner in his first 5 yrs.

Haslam has been trying to run the Browns like he runs Pilot Flying J, not realizing that to be successful in the NFL requires an owner to be patient and allow those he hires to have a chance to produce. I know Haslam said all the right things about what he was going to do as the Browns owner, being patient and allowing those he hired the necessary time to do their jobs...but the reality is, he is the most impatient owner in the NFL and considered the worst owner in the NFL by some. The management style Haslam brought to the Browns has done more damage to the franchise and set the franchise back instead of improving it.

It seems that Haslam must learn every lesson the hard way and this latest attempt at getting it right, hiring Harvard educated management that do not have a background in football...there are no assurances that his Harvard lawyer and Harvard analytics moneyball guy will be any more successful than Haslam's past hires.






As I've said before, every team in the NFL "reviews" and "evaluates" their performance in the draft. Why can't the fans review and evaluate the performance of the Browns draft team ?

I question the Haslam/Harvard/Moneyball draft team of the Browns in 3 areas at this time.

#1. RECEIVING

If you care to look at the performance of the Browns 2015 "receiving corp", you will see that they ranked...
...16th in the NFL in receiving yds and yds per game
...12th in the number of receptions and receptions per game

Keep in mind, our receivers performance was with McCown, Manziel and Davis at QB, a group that ranked #20 in passing in the NFL....and without Gordon and Pryor still learning the position.

Clearly "receiving" was not the weakest area of the team heading into the 2016 draft, yet the Browns dedicated over 1/3 of their total draft (36%) to receiving, drafting 5 wrs, converting one to a TE leaving them with 4wrs & 1 te.

#2 QB

My opinion on the Browns selection of Cody Kessler in the 3rd round is no different than the "majority opinion" on the pick. The Browns passed over several QBs who were ranked ahead of Kessler who was projected as 5th or 6th round pick by some of the more generous draft sites. One QB who clearly stood out, was Dak Prescott, who was projected as 3rd round pick and was named MVP of the 2016 Senior Bowl.

As of today, it looks as though the Browns made a serious error in judgement, passing over Prescott to select Cody Kessler. If the Browns were focused the dui charge without digging into the facts of the charge.. and checking out Prescott's history of alcohol related incidents..and judging the man's character to determine if he would be a risky pick due to alcohol related issues, then the entire draft team should expect to be questioned on their ability to judge draft talent.

Obviously, the Browns analytics/research department as well as those in the draft room should be questioned, concerning their QB choice.

#3 OFFENSIVE LINE

Their was no need to spend any draft picks on the offensive line had the front office done their job, resigning at least 1 of their OL free agents. Instead, the Browns Harvard boys re-signed none of their own free agent offensive linemen, creating the need to spend draft picks to attempt to replace the OL talent they refused to sign.

The Browns C had 101 starts and the RT had 64 starts in a row, never missing a game in his 4 seasons with the Browns. It was a NO BRAINER decision that our Harvard boys were facing, if they made signing Mitchell Schwartz to a second contract their priority and allowing Mack to leave if he opted out of the contract he signed 2 yrs ago... (which he did).

At that point, the most logical move would be to put Erving at center and their was no need to use any draft picks on offensive linemen. The Harvard boys used a 3rd round draft pick on a OT and a 5th round pick on a OG/OT.

I'm guessing the draft team thought it would not be a big deal if their new, potential franchise QB (RG3), played behind an offensive line that just lost 40% of the starters from 2015. So far, preseason game 3, considered the dress rehearsal of preseason games for the starters..in that game, the Browns starting QB was sacked 5 times in only 2 quarters. Also, there were several offensive line penalties (holding) by the OT replacement in the first half of the game.

It's very hard to win in the NFL with a poor offensive line and it's even more difficult to keep your starting QB healthy if the Oline can't protect their QB.


SUMMARY

The Browns #1 need going into this draft was rebuilding the defensive side of the ball. The Browns could have used 4 or 5 picks on the offensive needs leaving 9 or 10 draft picks to help build the Browns defense. This front office and owner created more needs, more holes to fill, due to the owner and management's poor performance in free agency.

Bottom line 888, we disagree and we have no choice but to wait while another front office makes mistakes in free agency and the draft. Fans can only hope these Harvard educated boys learn from their mistakes "quickly" because it is obvious that their lack of football experience will add years to the rebuild process if they prove to be "slow learners".

The other issue that must change if Haslam and his Harvard boys are ever going to build the Browns into a winner...stop being stupid about using cap space. Here the Browns sit with nearly $58 million in cap space and the Browns failed to RE-SIGN any of their free agents. THAT MAKES ZERO SENSE!

I know you weren't speaking directly to me, but you know how boards work LOL



No, I don't. he's not nearly as dumb as you and others make him out to be.



What proof do you have that he's itching to show anyone any thing... and Maybe it's showing them he can choose the right folks to run the franchise. I mean, it only took the Chief (Art Rooney) about 3 or 4 decades to find the right formula, why is it expected Haslam will figure it out in a few years?



Another myth... he doesn't run P/FJ that way. He hires people and let's them do their jobs. Then they report up to him on results. And you can't prove otherwise.



You may or may not be right about that. But either way he didn't stop Sashi and company from dumping JM at the very first opportunity. Since you talk about the average fan, I suppose you fashion yourself to be a superfan right? Define an average fan for me please?



I think he realizes that it takes time to develop a winning attitude within a team and to develop the players and systems that make it work. But the moment you realize that you've made a mistake with a hire, the best thing to do is correct it.

There is an old saying in the business world that even us "average fans" understand: Hire Slow/Fire Fast. Meaning don't waste another dollar or day with a mistake. Of course, you being a superfan, you may not realize that. LOL

Damn Attack, where you been?!

Good to see you're ok and posting.

DAMN it Mac. I didn't say that.,. What I said was
"
No, I don't. he's not nearly as dumb as you and others make him out to be."

If you are going to quote me, quote me correctly, I NEVER CALLED YOU DUMB.. Damn it man, grow up.



It figures you'd turn that against Haslam somehow.

I'm so tired of this refuse to re-sign them. Do we know that they even wanted to be here? Would you want to be here? I sure as hell wouldn't. I can say possibly Schwartz may have, but other than that I haven't seen any player even remotely say they wanted to stay.

Our only hope, IMO, is that we hit on the draft and become a winning team that way. After that, we'll have no problem getting players to sign.

It's a joke thinking he doesn't want to win. Jimmy isn't a stupid person, contrary to popular belief. He knows he is sitting on a goldmine should he build a winner. Once the bandwagoners and casual fans come out of the woodwork if we start winning the money will be unreal. Look at the Cavs for example - I am certainly what I would consider a casual fan of them. I watched every playoff game and went to 1 regular season game. I bought shirts. I've never done those things for the Cavs - only the Indians and Browns. There will likely be millions of people like I was with the Cavs once the Browns start winning.

MAY? May have taken it the wrong way? can you not just admit you DID take it the wrong way?

No I've not met Haslam.

And you haven't either according to your remarks.

You are entitled to your opinion of the man and his actions. And you are certainly able to arrive at those opinions any way you want to using whatever means.

But damn it man, do you have to post it every freakin day?

I get it, EVERYONE gets it, you don't have any faith in the guy.. WE GET IT.

His record as owner has been filled with one problem after another. One front office after another and one coaching staff after another.

So it's easy to be ticked off at him for his actions. Add to it the messy situation with his primary company (P/FJ) and he becomes a very tasty target.

But look at the other side of this for a second. He was either the head of or highly placed in Pilot/Flying J for years and when he was a line manager/VP or whatever his title was, there was no complaints at all.

He steps away to run the Browns and all hell breaks loose P/FJ.

I think there is reason to believe that once he learns a business he can run it effectively.

Art Rooney lost for decades before he found the formula.. you want it done by Haslam in a few years. Doesn't seem reasonable does it?

I agree with you that he is not a stupid man. Yet his experience in business may not lend itself as being useful in building a winning football team.

You see, in the truck stop world, the product (diesel fuel) is provided for you. All you are actually left to do is market a product that is provided to you. Very similar to what this team has called "The fan experience."

Yet in the truck stop world, you don't actually build a successful product. Marketing was a key focus the very first time Haslam held a press conference upon purchasing the Browns. As such, we have new uniforms, better Wi-Fi reception at the stadium, etc.....

Living in Tennessee now, I have the opportunity to do some business with Pilot Flying J. They are well designed, consumer friendly and a great place to do business. Yet there is a world of difference between marketing a product supplied to you and actually building a winning product. Night and day difference.

Now that doesn't mean he can't accomplish it. Point being, he comes from a marketing background, not building a product.

So with seeing some teams completely turn things around in a matter of a few years, you wish to try to use something that happened decades ago as an example of what we as fans should use to gauge Haslam by?

Dude, you're reaching. Back then there wasn't much money in football. A franchise wasn't a multi billion dollar investment. You didn't have the huge stable of coaches, scouts and multiple layers of an organization that we see in the NFL today.

You're trying to compare apples to oranges.

Fair enough. I typically believe that smart, successful business people put the right people in the right places to make their companies succeed. A football operation is no different. If they don't feel the right people are in place, they get rid of them quickly which is what Jimmy did. I happen to completely agree with the elimination of the FO as well as last years coaching staff - it's no secret I despised Pettine as a coach. The FO left a lot to be desired as well. This time around, he thought outside the box, which has a lot of traditionalists up in arms. While it remains to be seen if it is successful, I commend him for trying something different - lord knows the past 16 years of doing things the status quo way have not worked out well, lol.

To comment on his "fan experience" he just brought the organization to the level that other organizations were already at. Personally, I have liked all of the game day changes including the uniforms (I know I'm in the minority here).

I travel a lot and stop in Pilot stores quite often too, so I am very familiar with the brand.