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He went from the worst defense to the 2nd to worst

And for a heck of a lot less $ too I bet. Can't wait for the contract numbers to be revealed.

How much was he guaranteed by us?

6.5 million. 7 million in 2017 according to rotoworld. I'd bet there's a significant amount less.

He still gets that? or that's what he WOULD have gotten?

If he doesn't still get it, what DOES he get from us still?

He gets nothing additional from us; he has already gotten all of his money from Cleveland. That $6.5-$7.0 million was what his salary this year would have been. It never became guaranteed because he was not on the roster for Game 1 of the regular season (which is when a veteran's salary becomes guaranteed.. though, they may need a certain number of years for that to kick in).


We are free and clear of him completely. The only thing that remains is the Cap Hit for money already paid, but that is just an accounting issue, not actual new money going out.

Okay Thanks. No wonder he's angry haha. He probably lost 4-5 million this year

I'd be pissed off too if I was ~10 days away from guaranteeing a $7m year, got cut and then having to sign for ~$2-3m. It's still good money obviously, but still.

Not to mention how late in "free agency" we're doing this in.

Yeah... that part is definitely, imo, a bit shady on the behalf of the Browns.

Yup. Should have just let him go back in March.

I would agree except that he got cut because he wasn't doing squat. Horton planned on Kruger being the man, but he hasn't shown it at all in preseason. I bet if Horton hadn't planned on him being a key guy this would have been done closer to when Dansby and Whitner were cut.

I disagree.

The Browns cannot be in the business of putting individul players's interests 1st. They need to do what is best for the team, and for all of the players who remain on it.

Pluto said that Kruger was really slow throughout training camp and in the preseason games. I still had the 3rd preseason game DVR'd, and he did look a lot slower than I thought on 1st viewing. (I really hadn't watched him all that closely the 1st time through) If this is what the team saw, then why would they cut him right away? Why not give him a chance to get back into form, and see if he could help the team? When they did not see what they needed to see, they released him.

Every older player on this team has to know that unless they significantly outplay the younger players, then their spots are in jeopardy. Do you really think that Tramon Williams, Marlin Moore, Andrew Hawkins, Josh McCown, or Rahim Moore would be terribly surprised if they were cut or traded? None of them have done a whole lot on the field this preseason, either because of injury or just a lack of performance. They'll blame the team for cutting them late.... but really it will be their inability to get on the field as an older player (through performance or injury) that will be to blame.

I'd like to think if he was performing well we wouldn't have cut him at all (we cut Whitner early correct?)

So we observed him in all these practices and etc, and then deemed after three preseason games his effort wasn't there?

I don't "fully" buy into it. But I'm not at every practice and I'm not the head honcho so lol.

They brought him back to compete... He didn't peform well enough to justify how much he was being paid, he was cut.... It's he business side. Maybe they asked him to restructure and he didn't want to or maybe horton had seen enough that he realized he wouldn't fit so they cut him... From the Browns side I don't see it as shady at all... Does it suck? Of course... There are going to be over 900 guys or so that last week had a job and next week are looking for one...

It shouldn't have taken this long to evaluate. It didn't for Donte or Karlos. Now, asking for a reconstructure isn't something I considered. If so, he should've because I bet a reconstructured deal is better still than his new one. Which I still can't locate the numbers he got.

No....

Well now....

I smell a CBA grievance coming on this one, and Williams has a legitimate if he is hurt, and the Bears doctors seem to think he is.

good thing we stocked up on draft picks...

I didn't really follow this. Thought they were saying he got hurt doing something or training in a manner he wasn't supposed to.

IIRC the Browns said Williams was healthy enough to play ... Williams disputed it, but the team said he was having a bad attitude and wasn't being honest (hence why the two sides were arguing).

Now the Bears have failed him, which might prove that Williams was in fact unhealthy

Yeah, but didn't we already know he had a health issue by the second opinion he seeked out and received? Way prior to releasing him...

http://www.dawgsbynature.com/2016/8/17/1...peal-suspension

Ian Rapoport ✔ @RapSheet
After his second opinion on his ankle, #Browns CB K'Waun Williams was informed by the doc he needs surgery to remove bone spurs, source said
6:36 PM - 17 Aug 2016

Who knows what's going to happen here. I smelled a CBA grievance being filed the second we made him a first wave victim of cuts.

I think this shows that the FO dont quite understand the intricacies of the CBA quite yet, i think the way they've handled the players for the most part would be considered wrong, I think one, yes you can't put player interests over team interests, but at the same time, the way you treat players, especially vested veterans, really affects perception of the team, FO and whether or not players sign, or resign. Especially when you are the worst team in the league, its not like people are lining up to play here. Will the FO figure it out...who knows, but I've been of the opinion from the beginning that we really needed someone with NFL FO experience to guide these guys, Sashi has too much power with too little experience

When would have been a better time to cut him? Or how long do you think it should take to evaluate someone?

If I'm running the Browns I wait until the last possible moment to cut someone... The bridgewater injury proves that you never know when someone might get hurt so it could be you want to cut Kruger but then someone gets hurt and all of a sudden Kruger moves up the depth chart...

I understand wanting to be respectful to your players. But it's still a buisness

It is a business and that's part of the reason to treat your players fairly.

Paul Kruger agrees to deal with Saints after release by Browns

Is it possible that they intended to keep him, but then he wasn't as good as they thought he would be?

They released Dansby and Whitner pretty early on.

I think they wanted to see how EO and Nassib looked in camp, and when they saw that they were at least comparable to Kruger they made a move. I wish they would have cut him in March, for his benefit, but I saw see why the Browns didn't want to go all in with the young guys until they saw that they weren't overwhelmed and playing them early wouldn't curb their development

Williams was the Browns nickel back the last two seasons, but was losing his job to Jamar Taylor in camp. He was suspended by the Browns for the past two weeks for unspecified violations of team rules. Williams' agent Evan Krakower told Cleveland.com he would appeal the suspension.

"K'Waun was one of my really good friends on the team," Joe Haden said of Williams on Aug. 21. "Just a tough situation. Some people, you gotta really love this to be here. It's a lot of hours, a lot of things you have to put into it, and if your'e not all-in to it then it's no one's place to tell you what you want to do.

"I'm here for K'Waun whatever he wants to do, but we've got to just keep moving on with who we've got here."

http://www.espn.com/blog/cleveland-brown...and-paul-kruger

sounds like maybe he had Gilberitis

Watching Kruger play last year he was slow and was often gassed...He looked alot bigger than his Ravens days...Watching him drop into coverage was another big fit...guy had so many issues swiveling his body...

I knew the issue with K'waun was going to be something where the browns were trying to save some coin with his injury...just had a feeling..

Anyone knows how many concussions Gilbert has had? I remember he got one last year attempting to tackle someone lol and has one again...was hoping he'd actually show something but he seems to put himself on the injury list more often than not.

If I am not mistaken, since Williams failed his physical, he will go the rest of the way through waivers, and if unclaimed, will probably revert back to the Browns IR list.

Haden's quotes are very telling. Williams was lazy or unmotivated or whatever

And Kruger was either that way too ... or just out of gas

No, that's only if they are waived/injured, not just waived. They were dumping KW.

j/c:

I think Kruger was one of the better defenders on the team. I am not saying he was great, but he sure was better than guys like Orchard. I think he was cut because he was making pretty good money and that he was older. I don't think his performance had much to do w/it.

K. Williams was known as a guy who studied a lot. I do not think he suffered from Gibertitis.

It seems that the white players sure are dropping like flies from this roster.

Did K. Williams suddenly turn white? Does he have that thing Michael Jackson "had"? hehe

LOL..........no, that was a separate thought.