DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Andy Lee traded to the Panthers

We had the, imo, best kicker in the nfl with Phil Dawson. I literally feel he's the best. But no matter how many FG he drilled, we never won much, did we?

I'm not knocking the kicking game. It's clearly important and in many different ways. But it's almost meaningless when the offense can't score and the defense gives up points like it's a 24-7 sale.

I agree, it seems pretty simple. It's a freaking punter on what will likely be a pretty bad football team and we got a decent draft pick. I don't think it had anything to do with effort - and if it did, who cares? He is a punter, and whose to say the guy we got won't be good as well?

Based on the defense I've seen, it won't matter how deep we pin another team anyhow.

I respect your opinion on that you don't care that we lost a punter and you are happy that we got a draft pick.

However, why can't you respect my opinion? It's like so many of you feel the need to shout down anyone w/an opposing opinion w/words like "freaking punter," "who cares," etc.

We'll never know if Lee's a better tackler because he didn't even put out an effort to slow the return man down. Gilbert made a lousy tackle attempt, but at least he made some sort of attempt. When you're one of the lightest guys on the field you've got to tackle low. When you tackle low, you naturally drop your head. When you can't see your target, you sometimes whiff.

Gilbert said that before Hue got here (or at least was referring to before Hue got here, the exact timing is a little hazy). Hue gave everyone clean slates.

While Gordon was overweight, how much overweight? Once he was there he was doing everything the staff asked supposedly.

What I said in my post earlier was that Hue giving Lee an earful was the holding him accountable portion, and the trade was unrelated.

edit-Gilbert does need to improve his tackling technique.

I do respect your opinion, I just don't agree with it. We have a lot bigger problems than losing a punter IMO - and we got one in return plus a 4th rounder. And yes, he is a freaking punter Anyone that can kick at an NFL level will be fine with the state that our team is in. At this point I'd trade just about anyone if the value is exceptional, which in this case a 4th rounder for a punter is.

I think we should bring back Scott Player so we can see the single face bar again!

So you're saying having a crappy punter will help us get into the playoffs?

We tried that with Spencer Lanning.

We signed a punter.

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/arti...e4-df3b22742f56

welcome to the party Palardy

I remember Palardy. He was a good punter. The othe rguy we got looks pretty good....can't remember his name....played for Wofford of the Southern Conference....the Mocs play in that conference, so I have to pull for him a bit.

I don't think it was about money. It was simply a chance to get younger and gain a decent draft chip.

I like that it is in 18....we have a bunch next year, especially considering comp picks to be gained.

So how many punters do we have now? Two?
They say if you have two punters, you really have two.

Andy Lee is a three-time Pro Bowler, if our new guy gets the shanks, I'll be missing Mr. Lee and won't care about the fourth round draft pick some of you are so giddy about.
Btw IMO his age isn't an issue.

If we are going to worry about things that might happen to the new kicker, maybe the new guy doesn't realize Cleveland has a rail transportation system in town and he walks in front of a train! There is a big lake just north of Cleveland. Maybe he goes swimming in the lake and drowns!


Just saying, my friend.

I agree lee could be punting til he is 40

He also said in his presser that Lee made amends for that. So the non-tackle issue was over then.

I still hate to see him go. The field position battle just got worse.

And we still might not be a 4 win team by then

by the way DP101 .. happy birthday bud

Would a team rather have a punter who's been to the PB three times, or some other unknown guy?

If it were that simple, the Pro Bowl guy (assuming the Pro Bowl means something in this scenario).

Are you implying that Andy Lee is not a very good punter?

My, how the rhetoric has changed.

I thought he was implying that the Pro Bowl is kind of more popularity contest than who played the best that season. Or like last year you could have something like the 6th alternate for a position in the game any more.

Andy Lee is a good punter.

Maybe we're going to try a new strategy where we go for it every time on 4th down, we have now gotten rid of our punter and most of our better kick coverage guys from last season.

Allow me to explain what I was "implying."

Last year, posters ripped my butt during a thread I made called "The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly" because I did not mention Andy Lee in the good.

Over and over I was told how great he was.

Furthermore, that was the rhetoric for much of the season. "Andy Lee is great."

Now, he is just a "freaking punter" who wasn't all that good according to the stats.

No 'punt' intended, but maybe we don't ever reach 4th down...only 1, 2, 3, or TD.

GO BROWNS!!!

Lee is awesome, he is an incredible punter. I never said otherwise, but he is just a freaking punter - I'll stand by that till the end. That doesn't mean he is bad, it means he is not going to make or break this team nor any team he is on. We got great value for him, that isn't even arguable in my opinion. We got more for him than a former 6th pick of the draft. I'll absolutely say Andy Lee is a great punter because he is. Just because I agree with the move doesn't mean I don't think the guy was good because that too is not arguable - he had a great season.

Fair post............the only thing I will argue w/is your assertion that it isn't arguable that we got great value for him.

Again, I don't just follow the lead of media members and message board members. I actually think the kicking game is extremely important.

I did get personal because I'm tired of the condescension when responding to an objectively true point. Vers feels he can call people ignorant and then whines about it when they call him arrogant. Sorry for having you dragged into the conversation but when someone like him is looking for something to take personally, any bystander can be targeted.

For the record, the kicking game is extremely important, but consistent punters are more a product of the team than just their individual ability. Their success or failure is more a result of their coverage team. A punter could kick the ball from one endzone to the 5 yard line but if the punt is returned for a touchdown his net yardage on the punt is zero.

Place kickers on the other hand live on an island and assuming the snap and hold are good either make or miss a kick based on their own performance. That makes them much more valuable than the punter.

j/c

I think my sig. says it all. Watch not what they say, but what they do.

So are you saying Lee didn't do it the right way on the tackle (which is a non issue imo) or that the FO is lying by shipping guys out who do it the right way? Honest question.

I'm fine with this considering the value we go back. If this team was close to competing over the next two years I would probably agree with Vers about the kicking game being valuable. However, we suck.....really badly.....and will for at least two years. The kicker isn't going to make or break us, and we got a good asset for him.

We traded for the best punter in the league two years ago for a 6th or 7th (can't remember) round pick, and when the time comes for us to compete I have no doubt we can find another high end punter for a reasonable price.

Until then you take the asset every time imo. The Browns are going to be terrible with Lee or me punting the ball so it makes little difference. There is literally no one on this team I wouldn't trade for the right value, because most of them will not be here when/if the winning ever starts.

Stetson - no need to respond to me. My post was directed at Vers - in his response to you he stated that I resorted to personal attacks. Vers was wrong - and I challenged him - he has obviously tucked his tail between his legs and admitted as such because he cannot post where I engaged in a personal attack.

Additionally - while the kicking game and field position battle is important ... no-one yet has volunteered to list all the positions in order of importance and show how highly the punter is rated. Saying that field position is important is almost an oxymoron .... name me a position or aspect of the game that anyone could claim is not important .... But everything is relative. In comparison to nearly every other position on the team - the punter is less important. Much less in many cases. . . But because we are a bad team we have dozens of pages discussing the merits of getting a 4th round pick in exchange for an elite punter..... as I said, if the Patriots make the same move they would be lauded all over the media for being such geniuses!

Broncos just release Colquitt... he's pretty damn good

j/c:



...Where the Redfern grows?

I like it Pitdawg. good sig. but I would condense to this.

"It sends the right message to the locker room when you reward guys who do it the right way..."

To me it reflects why some of the guys were cut.

Again, you can't argue.........so, you resort to making personal attacks.

NRTU,

I really liked having a top notch punter, as we use him on pretty much 1 out of 4 snaps. Lee is one of the best in the league at his position.

I view this the same way I viewed McCown a little while back when Dallas supposedly was interested in acquiring McCown. As I posted then, I prefer to keep McCown, very much prefer to. But if someone blows me away with an offer, then I deal him.

Andy Lee cost us a 7th round pick (2 yrs down the road), and we flipped him for a 4th (again, 2yrs down the road). That's good value for a punter. Is the difference between Lee and whoever we trot out there going to more than the value of a 4th round pick? Shouldn't be, as long as we don't blow the pick. But blowing the pick does not mean this was not a smart move.

With as bad as we will be, we may need a younger punter. Gonna be a lot of kicks.

Where.....?

Oh - that's right - You can't show me where. Not only that - I laid out several reasons why this is a good move and you haven't debated a single one. Instead you accused me of something I didn't do.

So that means you are making things up and creating personal attack based on lies. Is stating that you have your tail between your legs an attack because you can't show me a personal attack??? Would calling you a hypocrite because you are a hypocrite, be classed as a personal attack or just telling the truth?

Let's face it - no-one is surprised and you get away with goading, bullying and prevarication all the time here. Better posters than me can ignore your double standards - I have a tougher time of it, but I'll try to go back to ignoring your posts from now on.

Both you and Stetson go on and on w/this Vers this, Vers that. That's where.

Agree with your analogy on McCown - though I have to say it would have to be a great offer for McCown because I actually think the offense might be the highlight of the season - if RG3 goes down, I believe McCown would still execute the offense better than anyone else and not that much of a drop off from where my expectations of RG3 are. I don't think I'd accept a 3rd round pick for McCown at this stage. And I don't see anyone giving us a 2!

Swift answer. I can't speak to Stetson.

But regarding myself - you are flat out lying. Either your a troll and very happy that you you got a response, or you are just a sad little person without much of a life. Either way I feel very sorry for you. Have a blessed day.

IRRELIVENT ... 100% IRRELIVENT ..

That was 100% salary cap related ... If they were 45 MILLION or so UNDER the SLALARY CAP, there's no way he goes ..

WILLIE - U agree with Vers .. THE kicking game is important .. U both know and agree on that .... Your like me in that I don't really care that we traded him cause we're going to suck anyhow so field position and pinning teams inside the 10 isn't al that important to me THIS YEAR ... That's the part U and Vers disagree on ...

I totally disagree with U on the fact that we got good value for him .. That's BS ...

I think this FO is destined to fail in a big way ... But I like the way there going about the tear down .. There committed to it and doing a good job of it IMO .. This one I don't agree with ...

I'm not upset and I could really care less but please don't tell me a 4th round pick more than likely a LATE 4TH rnd pick is good value ...