DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Shanahan Offers Insight About RG3

Pretty good read about Mike Shanahan's thoughts on Griffin. You can tell he sidestepped the question about being a pocket passer ... clearly he thinks that's his drawback and undoing (as most of us do).

What Mike Shanahan thinks Robert Griffin III must do to be successful with the Browns
Robert Griffin III
Robert Griffin III can be successful here if he runs the same kind of read-option scheme he ran in 2012 in Washington, Mike Shanahan says. (John Kuntz, cleveland.com)
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Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com By Mary Kay Cabot, cleveland.com
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on September 09, 2016 at 7:19 PM, updated September 09, 2016 at 7:22 PM

BEREA, Ohio — Former Redskins coach Mike Shanahan, who coached Robert Griffin III to NFL Offensive Rookie of the Year honors and a Pro Bowl Berth in 2012, knows exactly what it will take for Griffin to be successful with the Browns.

Griffin, he says, will need to abandon the notion that he's a dropback quarterback and return to the things that made him a superstar in 2012.

Specifically, he'd run the read-option attack that makes defenses change the way they play; and compliment that with a strong play-action passing attack that forces defenders to respect the run as well as the pass.

Ideally, the scheme would be built around a power running game like Shanahan and his son Kyle ran in Washington that year, with Alfred Morris rushing for 1,613 yards.

In that improbable rookie season, Griffin set NFL rookie records for passer rating (102.4), interception percentage (1.27) and rushing yards by a quarterback (815). He finished the season with 3,200 yards passing, 20 touchdown and only five interceptions. He also rushed for seven touchdowns on his 120 carries.

Of course, it ended with Griffin tearing his ACL and LCL in the wildcard playoff loss to the Seahawks, and he never returned to his Pro Bowl form. But Shanahan is quick to point out that Griffin was never injured on a read-option play.

In 2013, Redskins owner Dan Snyder and Griffin decided that he ought to become a pocket passer, and the experiment failed miserably. The Redskins went 3-13, the Shanahans were fired, and Jay Gruden was hired as head coach. Gruden quickly came to the same conclusion: that Griffin wasn't a dropback passer. He ultimately turned the team over to Kirk Cousins and demoted Griffin to third-string quarterback last season.

In an interview with cleveland.com, Shanahan offered his thoughts on what Griffin must do to get back to his 2012 glory Griffin and

Q: Can Griffin ever be the amazing quarterback he was in 2012?

A: He still is that 2012 quarterback. If he runs a system that takes advantage of his skillset, he can be successful. Knowing Hue (Jackson), I'm sure he's going to take advantage of what Robert does best. He'll have to do some of what he did in 2012, along with some of the new things Hue will design for him. But he still has the big arm, he's still fast and he can still do some of the things that led him to one of the best seasons for a quarterback in NFL history.

Q: How did the play-action game factor in?

A: Statistically he was the best in the history of the game and he did a lot of great things. He was fantastic with the play-action game. It complimented what he did in college. We had six new starters on offense and he was able to put up some fantastic stats throughout the year and defenses really had to play the run. He did as good a job as you could possibly ask anybody to with the play-action game that he run.

Q: Can Griffin become more of a dropback quarterback?

A: Every quarterback I've ever been around, they believe in themselves. They believe they can do everything. The great quarterbacks have the uncanny ability to believe that the sky's the limit and whatever needs to be done that they can do it. I just thought it was going to take some time in that situation and obviously we'll see what happens in the future. When I left Washington, I told Dan (Snyder) it's going to take some time. He's never done it in high school, never did it in college.

Shot 3 - Great touch pass by Griffin. #Browns like Empty sets and like to move Barnidge, Duke Johnson & Pryor around pic.twitter.com/BRMXjFXyJq
— Fran Duffy (@fduffy3) September 8, 2016



Q: What happened when you tried to use him more as a dropback passer in 2013?

A: We went to more of a dropback attack in the first three games to see if he could do some of the things we were hoping he could, and we went 0-3. The next five games, we did a lot of things we did in 2012 with the hurry-up offense and we went 3-2. Then, we drifted away from that and went more back to the drop-back the remainder of the season, and it just didn't work out. Ultimately I benched Robert for the last three games and went with Kirk. Again, it's not that Robert can't do it. It's just that he hasn't.

Q: What happened to Griffin after you left?

A: If you put somebody in a situation they're uncomfortable with because they've never done it, it's going to be very hard for that guy to be successful and that's what happened the next couple of years for him. He was in a system that was more of a dropback attack than a play-action attack.
That's what they thought he was and he's not. When you don't play for a couple of years, it's hard to get better doing something if you don't practice it.

Shot 4 - Hue Jackson will use Griffin in read option situations. Here is a 'Power' Read play where he keeps the ball pic.twitter.com/b2WBKcqO0t
— Fran Duffy (@fduffy3) September 8, 2016



Q: But doesn't the read-option expose him to getting hurt?

A: Robert has never gotten hurt running the read-option. He had a concussion as a rookie when he scrambled and held onto the ball too long and got hit. He didn't hurt his ACL on a read-option play. I actually think the read-option helped keep him healthy. The key is, you have to be willing to slide and throw the ball away. It seems like Robert is doing those things now.

Q: Haven't teams caught up to the read-option?

A. No, just look at Russell Wilson last year. He ran the ball better than Robert did as a rookie. And this was his fourth year running it. When people say have defenses caught up, well, why has Russell Wilson had the success he's had? And he's going to keep having success, because you don't have to run it but three times times a game and if people haven't prepared to stop it, you can run it six times a game. That's how they beat Green Bay in the playoffs. Most people in general are not sure what the read-option is. You have three choices: you give it to the back, you pitch it or you run the football.

Russell knows when to hand it off, when to keep it and when to slide. Your job is to never get hit. Robert did take too many hits, but from what I've seen, he seems more willing to slide.

Q: Why is it still so effective?

A: Even if you only run it two or three times a game, the defense has to prepare for it. Just to have that in there, you don't have to run it, but when people know you have it in your arsenal, not only does it help the running game but it helps the play-action game and it keeps the pass-rush from getting after the quarterback because they have to play run first so there's a lot of advantages vs. disadvantages.

Q: Griffin got hot and went 6-0 in his final six games as a rookie. What was the key?

A: We started out 3-6, we were having a lot of success on first and second down, but on third down we were ranked 32nd in the league. Over the last seven games we were tied for fifth on third down and that's the main reason we went 7-0 as a team (including Kirk Cousins' victory in Cleveland).

After studying the first half of the season, instead of reading the the whole field, we went to one side or the other, we went to 1-2 (in the progression), then you run it or dump it. That gives a young quarterback a feel on how quickly the ball must come out. He must also know his outlet if the run isn't there — and slide. Don't take a hit. We got better the second half of the season and it's part of the reason we got in the playoffs. We made it a lot easier on Robert and he did a much better job.

Shot 2 - But Hue Jackson does a lot of things to leverage his ability to threaten defenses vertically #Browns pic.twitter.com/4lgLC8YAcm
— Fran Duffy (@fduffy3) September 8, 2016



Q: Did Hue Jackson seek your advice when he was signing Griffin?

A: No, I have never talked to Hue. I've met Hue before and I've watched him afar because he's always believed in the running game so I have followed what he's done throughout his career. I believe he'll play to Robert's strengths and do a great job with him. I would make the reads pretty simple. You throw it to that guy, or that guy or run it. Until you can see that he can handle a situation, and then give him more rope as he proves himself. But what you have to do is build this kid's confidence up.

Q: Is is true you never wanted Griffin in the first place?

A: I was never against drafting Robert. I just thought the compensation was crazy. We had the sixth pick in the draft and we all saw Robert's ability. There were a lot of positive signs about Robert and there's no question we were going to pick him with the sixth pick of the draft. I just didn't think we were good enough as at that time to make that type of commitment. We moved up to No. 2 and gave up two No. 1s and a No. 2. After Robert tore his ACL, a lot of people came out and said I didn't want Robert. That was completely false. I just didn't want to give up that much.

Q: Why didn't you want to give up that much if you liked so many things about Griffin's game?

A: There were just some unproven traits to give up that much in return. You've got to be 100% sure because if you're not right, it sets your franchise back. He had never operated a pro-style offense at Baylor. He had never thrown consistently from the pocket. I thought there were other quarterbacks in the draft who could play without giving up that much.

Q: But after everything you've been through with Griffin, you still called Rams coach Jeff Fisher in the offseason and told him to sign Griffin?

A: I felt I owed that to Robert. I felt he deserved another chance in the right environment.

Q: Is it true Griffin reached out to you after that?

A: Robert gave me a call. He thanked me for recommending him to Jeff Fisher. I told Robert 'I didn't blame you for wanting to be a dropback quarterback, because there's nobody in their right mind that would come up to the head coach after the year you had and say we've got to change all of these things.' I understand you're young. I said, 'hey go to a place where the coordinator is proven and has a good running game and he'll use you the right way and you've got a chance.' I think Robert has that in Cleveland.

Q: So you think this can work?

A: I'm rooting for Robert to run a system similar to what we ran in 2012 and not put all the pressure on him. Get a good play-action package off of it. Hue's done a great job with different offenses and I'm hoping he can get the best out of him.


http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2016/09/what_mike_shanahan_thinks_robe.html

So Shanny thinks RG3 needs to do things the why that almost ruined him in Washington.

You gotta do the things you're good at.

The big part though that got rg3 killed, is what he's working on during preseason:

Sliding, and throwing the ball away when nothing is there.

So I dunno if that's rg3's fault, shanny's, or both. But IMO, if RG3 learns how to do those two things while in Washington, we probably wouldn't be having this conservation as he'd still be on that team.

However, that combined with other factors is why we are where we are today.

Hue definitely put a big emphasis on those two things during training camp and preseason.

That will lead to a lower risk of RG3 getting injured.

And a healthy RG3 is devasting to opposing defenses.

Did you read the article?

No Shanahan knows RG3 is limited in his ability to read defenses. In fact he sucks at it. So he developed a game plan that minimized RG3's short comings and worked to what he could do. I have seen enough of RG3 that I know he can't function effectively in a drop back traditional offense, its obvious actually.

That's a HUGE over simplification..

I don't think that's what he meant at all....

Actually, that was a big part of what he was talking about.

Yeah that's what I deciphered, also. Simple reads, to "hide" his weaknesses seemed like a big part of it.

Vers you keep trying to get Deman to understand basics when are you going to give up?

The worst kind of person is one who disagrees just to be disagreeable, you should know that much???

Not worth your time nor the effort.....

I think we'll see a lot of moving pockets and rollouts with options

also interesting the praise Shanny gave RG3 in terms of PA passing ... that's why a run game at all is important

I know this is/was a major weakness. What I don't know is how much or how hard he's worked on improving that aspect of his game, or how much Hue has taught him regarding technique, film study, seeing the field, etc. I do know that I saw him go through progressions a couple times in the pre-season, and I've seen him stand in and find the open man on occasion. That's a major upgrade in his game, IMHO. Though, admittedly, the sample size is very small.

Also, I really don't care what Shanahan thinks based on his four-year-old information. I'll wait and see how much he's developed, if he's developed, and if he's able to develop as a pocket QB for myself.

My biggest concern is for RG III's safety. I fear the porous o-line will get him killed. Without protection, reading a defense, going through protections, and pocket passing won't matter because he'll be running for his life and we'll never know what could've been.

I think Shanahan is right but find it odd that he's still talking about RG after all this time. It makes me think he thought the world of RG as a QB and is sorry things turned out the way they did.

I also think that anyone who is holding hope that RG will become adept at reading coverages is going to be disappointed. First you have to have a deep understanding of coverages, secondly you have to have a brain that processes that information split-second quick by the smallest of clues from a group of defenders like body leans or within the first half-steps after the snap. You can eventually learn the first part but the second part you're either born with or not. He's not. This is what keeps him from becoming an efficient pocket passer.

That's not to say he's stupid or slow-minded. He may process information faster than anyone you know when playing ping-pong or short-stop or even basketball. But none of that is nearly as complicated as required of an NFL QB reading coverages at the necessary speed of an NFL game.

He has awsome skills and anyone who can take advantage of those skills by adapting them to the NFL game will have a winner.

Very good read. Thank you for posting.

I agree, I liked it too.

Mike needs to watch Frozen, and just let it go. It was bad, it was a mess, it was 3 first round draft picks and careers wasted but its over. Let it go. Hue will either develop RG3 into a QB that is capable of playing from the pocket or he will move on to someone else.

Mike just let it go.

I think Mary Kay read an earlier article and then contacted Shanahan to answer her questions. I doubt he sought her out.

I think RGIII can improve on his pre-snap reads. I don't know about the post-snap reads.

I saw a show the other day where they were saying he made a lot of poor protection calls in Washington and then didn't take the blame and instead said stuff like "we gotta block better." It got to the point that his own lineman would not help him up.

Indications are that he has matured and is improved in those areas. Let's hope that is true.

I think Hue will run the ball a lot, work in some play action, take a few deep shots each game, and limit the amount of reads RGIII has to make. He should have some early success, but I an doubtful about how long that will last after teams get some film on him and the O.

J/c

Lol, Mike Shanahan.

they tried to make someone they are not. it would be like trying to make Payton Manning a read option qb. 50/50 run...lol. rg3 reading defenses and Manning running up the middle...same fail

not really on rg3, but on shanny

What Shanahan said was "I'm not saying he CAN'T do it, jus that he hasn't" It would take some time. I'm sure they are looking at Pobert as a project. They will have to teach him how to be a quarterback.

Man, you can LEARN to read D's. You can't learn how to be a 4.4 runner. Manning could never learn to be fleet of foot, but if RG3 studies his ass off and works at it who's to say he can't learn how to read D's or become a complete QB?

I concur with that statement Spirit. That's the thought process as i see it now. I was speaking in terms of this is who he is as of this moment.

I also believe that his instincts are pretty bad and they should improve but will it be enough??? I personally don't think so, but does that mean I am right? No my ego isn't that big and RG3 has some things you can't teach, speed being one of them, as you pointed out.

That's said I believe one of the things the Browns tried to do was become fast everywhere. Offense defense everywhere and at all positions. They believe in speed and you can't teach speed. Instincts often overcome speed though!

At the end of the day I don't think RG3 will amount to much he lacks instincts, or feel for the game. I pray he proves me wrong....

Is instincts were good enough to lead that team to the playoffs.

His QB play was good enough that he had less than 10 INT that year. Overall good enough to make the pro bowl.

My only concern with him is injuries. He's already shown he can play QB effectively.

Man the way you guys talk, one would think we signed Sam Bradford.

I am sure that Shanahan is fair and balanced with regard to his views on RG3 - I am sure he wants RG3 to go on to become a superstar for another HC in the legaue. . . NOT.

RG3's situation in Washington is well documented. To be honest between the owner and RG3 I think they acted with little regard to putting the HC and team in the best place to win... Hopefully the 'new' RG3 is legitimately a reformed character, for I don't have any doubts about his arm talent and athleticism to play at a level higher than any other QB since 1999.

As for what Shanny said - I think it will forever be laced with his agenda based on a negative experience in Washington, then his demoting RG3 to playing safety on the practice squad!! What would it really say about Shanahan if he treated RG3 that way and then, when given a legit chance on a team lacking much talent, RG3 showed the world he was a top 10 QB in the NFL???

Actually, two teams traded for Bradford. One team gave up a 1st and a 4th for Sam Bradford.

Not one team traded for RGIII.

In fact, he became available and the Browns were the only team who wanted him. The Jets brought him in for an interview, but that's it.

Thus, if anyone was actually comparing him to Bradford, it would have been complimentary.

Actually it's an insult.

RG3 is better than Bradford.

Bradford has survived in the NFL based off hype and nothing else.

At least RG3 has shown he's capable of actually leading a team to the playoffs.

So, you know more about QBs than every other GM and HC in the NFL?????

Every other GM and HC?

The guy sucked in St. Louis.

Got traded to the Eagles.

Sucked there.

And then got traded in a desperation move to the Vikings.

How many playoff appearances does Sam Bradford have? How many pro bowls?

And he's been in the league longer than RG3, correct?

I agree Spirit Bro. That is why I think Hue is exactly the right coach to help RGIII to make the transition and become the Franchise QB he is supposed to be with the team he should have been with all along.

I already told you about other teams not wanting RGIII. What's to argue?

Look, I think it was a good move by the FO and Hugh to take a chance on RGIII. Low cost w/the potential for a pay-off.

I just am not buying this crap about him being so good and beyond criticism.

I never said anything about being beyond criticism.

He has certainly deserved whatever was coming to him in DC.

I just made the observation that SOME of the same posters who are trashing RG3 wanted the Browns to trade for a bum QB in Bradford.

He's all hype. Atleast RG3 has shown with all his deficiencies that he can still lead a team to a post season.

You can go and check for yourself swish but Bradford was the best QB in the league to close last season...

I only wished we had gotten Bradford instead of RG3 as talent goes Bradford is heads and shoulders beyond RG3.

You watch Bradford this year a year plus removed from ACL surgery you will be watching true NFL caliber QB play..

As of this moment I believe you are about to be given a lesson about talent and potential Bradford is as good as they come when healthy, thinking otherwise proves one thing?

See what I mean? All hype.

I've seen the same post from different people about Bradford for the last 3-4 years now.

Still waiting on it to happen.

I don't like Bradford. I argued against us pursuing him last year.

But, he's more valuable in the eyes of NFL people than RGIII is at this particular point in time. I don't see how anyone can dispute that.

Nfl people aren't always right.

If that was the case, farmer would still be here.

If Farmer was still here we'd probably have a cream puff rookie RG instead of Corey Coleman

Almost all other teams were set at starting QB. Nobody was going to pay 7 million or so for a backup QB...