DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Browns Front Office....still not ready for prime time..(imo)

I'm going to begin this thread with the same post I made on the locked thread...

Folks can bash me all they want and it will not change my opinions on the Browns management.

About Haslam...I bought in at first, believing Haslam was the right owner for the Browns..he said all the right things, but the more I saw from him, it became evident that he was lost and nothing like I expected.

About Harvard...Harvard is fine academic school...one of the finest academic schools.

About our Harvard educated front office...
...Can anyone tell me what Sashi went to college for?
...Can anyone tell me what Depodesta went to Harvard for?

I'm guessing that 99% of those attempting to rip at me for my opinions, have not or cannot answer either of the questions above.

Making short, our front office might be academically smart...but they are way behind the average first year GM. Specifically, they are behind in "football experience".

It's obvious to me that many of you believe football experience doesn't matter...and I'm here say, football experience does matter and it is one of the basic qualities most owners look for when trying to fill their GM positions.

I believe the lack of football experience is already hurting the franchise and I have spoken out on some specific concerns...and I will continue to speak out.

...also, if Sashi needs the phone number to Prescott's lawyer, he can call me, I have it!

mac, I think it is too early to assign a grade to the front office.

Look, I disagree w/those who say "we are building it the right way" because I think it is too early to tell.

Likewise, I think it is too early to tell if that lack of experience means that the Browns can't succeed.

I think we should just judge each individual move on its own accord and wait for a bit to assign any summative evaluations.

Uhmmmmm............I really don't think I misspelled summative. That's annoying! LOL

OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

STOP REHASHING THIS FREAKIN THREAD!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think I said that we should judge each move on it's own accord. I said it is too early to draw any summative assessments.

Sashi got a juris doctorate (law degree) from Harvard. Depodesta's degree was in economics. As far as I know, there are no degrees in scouting, and scouting is only a fraction of a GMs (or any front office executive's) job.

10 Things I learned about being a GM- Scott Pioli on the MMQB

There are random certificates one can get online for scouting and "GMing", but I couldn't find any academic credentialing process for them.

Both degrees have elements that are relevant to their jobs and are common amongst GMs.

Dealing with legal issues and resolving conflicts are part of a GMs job. It stands to reason that a law degree would help there. Another large part of law practice is assimilating information from various sources and fitting the various pieces together, also they deal with established precedent as it is the basis for our legal system.

As long as we have good scouts providing him with good information, I don't think Sashi's lack of scouting experience is a huge deal. (I'm not saying it's a good thing) I think an over reliance on the scouting/eyeball aspect can lead to problems. See Ray Farmer and his missing the forest because of his focus on the individual trees. Sashi can gain experience on the job. It's the only way to gain experience when you get down to it. It doesn't look like he drafted nothing but bums his first draft, does it? Law often makes one focus on the big picture which can come in handy at the top of an organizational structure. Scouts often get caught up in the micro. A big part of being a scout is sticking to your convictions, a GM has to bring together multiple opinions and approach them with an open mind. No scout is right all the time. Hopefully Sashi can determine the right scout to listen to more of the time than we've experienced in the past.

As for DePo, Economics is about more than money. It is about maximizing value, optimization, supply and demand, and other relevant topics. DePodesta is also about more than economics. He's about implementing and refining processes, and being willing to look outside prevailing paradigms. His first "GM" job was in baseball, but he was trying to get a football job when he was offered the baseball gig. DePo's title is strategy officer and that seems to fit his skill set. Moneyball worked in an uncapped environment financially in baseball. The principles should be more applicable in a league with financial parity. Unfortunately franchise QB has the highest demand and the lowest supply, so we find ourselves in a tough spot. One's best shot is probably the first pick in a draft, but even that doesn't guarantee anything.

Berry has a football scouting background and is working with experienced scouts. It's not like we are completely devoid of scouting experience.

There is no certainty in this working, but the experienced scout/football coach background hasn't worked for us (Farmer or Holmgren) either. I think not having the football/experience background has forced them to be more disciplined and stick to the processes they've put in place. I think if they can keep emotion and ego out of their decisions, we'll end up with better results over the long run.

Of course, there is always the possibility that the Browns are unsalvageable by anyone. We might not have enough talent to enable potentially good players to not get broken. I think resilience might be as important a trait as any in our draft classes this and next season. From initial reports, this last class demonstrates/exemplifies some of it.

Kindred played through the broken collarbone.

Nassib was a walk on and was told he'd never make the NFL by O'Brien.

Kessler went through NCAA sanctions and multiple coaching staffs and still had solid numbers.

Schobert was another walk on.

Higgins put up great numbers despite being labeled as too slow.

Coleman had a pretty rough upbringing:
Coleman's back story/Childhood Link

Shon Coleman went through his Leukemia ordeal.

mac, I'm much like Vers on this one.

I do share your concern about an overall lack of football experience in this FO. Their resume' is severely lacking in that regard. So while I have huge reservations about that, the evidence is sorely lacking for me to reach any such conclusion about the possibility of either success or failure from them.

I agree with you about Presott. Anyone can say what they wish, but looking at it objectively, Prescott is way ahead of Kessler at this point. Now does that project the future? Certainly not. But if they were looking to draft the most NFL ready QB of the two, Prescott is the current winner hands down.

Any draft takes three years to fully analyze. So drawing any conclusion at this juncture is far to premature. I just wonder if you hold the other 31 FO's to the same conclusion about passing on Prescott three or four times as you do the Browns? After all, it was only the Cowboys who drafted him at that juncture, none of the other 31 teams bit.

So...here's my "concern" If you will, about this whole thing.

Being critical of the FO is something we all do every regime change.

However, Im failing to understand how mentioning their Harvard education in a negative spin is productive?

I just don't get.

Haslam is trying something new.

Just to remind the board, just in case you guys forgot, we have had "football" guys with "football experience" run the FO.

and it didn't exactly work out.

So I dunno why them going to Harvard is used as a knock. Would you guys have felt better if they went to university of Phoenix?

Or cuyahoga community college?

Or MIT?

I don't get it.

Agreed.

(see? we can agree on some things)

Why do you always say "you guys?"




Not really. Banner was doing much the same thing and "you guys" hated Banner. Btw..........wonder who hired Sashi in the first place?




Great logic. So if one has a bad experience w/a dentist, he should not try other dentists and instead go to a car mechanic. Heck, they both use pliers and drills.

you guys = mac and the other posters who have used the harvard thing as a knock.

you say the same thing when you was on your mangini/banner holy crusade.

so yea, you guys.

anyway, yea, they did use other "dentist", just the experimental kind.

the tradition "dentist" wasn't working here in cleveland. So they went to experimental treatment, like so many american's do on a daily basis in real life.

let's give it more than 1 game.

Fire them all NOW!

Maybe we can get this guy talk is he's a football god if we are lucky he could serve as GM, HC, OC and ST perfect football guy.

So... what about that response is surprising?

Are they supposed to announce that because RG3 got hurt game one, they are now dumping him from the roster?

Are they supposed to say because he got hurt that they were wrong about Robert and they are now dumping him from the roster?

To me it's only professional to voice continued support for a guy you named your #1 QB when he gets hurt. Personally I'm not going to give this any real weight unless McCown is doing well and they plug RG3 back in just because.

Methinks you smoked too much before you made that post.

the Browns front office struck out on 2 fronts.

1. in deseperation the FO signed RG3 despite his negatives out shining
his positives. they put all their hope on a QB made of glass.
their was a reason why 31 teams passed on him.

2. not drafting Dak Prescott.
I don't want to.hear 31 teams passed on him. baloney.
did teams like the Texans..Colts...Packers...Bengals..Steelers..Raiders
have a need for Prescott..no.
the fact is the Browns could taken him in RD 3...4. a franchise QB in the making at a bargain cost

3. not upgrading the oline after Schwartz and Mack left.

4.not upgrading the RB stable.
Crowell is a serviceable RB. but hes very one dimensional.

5. not adding a legit OLB in free agency that can rush the passer.

all.that cap space available in the off season and not even using
it to better the team

My prediction, and I don't know how I feel about this, is that after this season (correct me if I'm wrong) AJ McCarron becomes a free agent.

I predict that we go hard after him and sign him to be our #1. He knows Hue's system and he had a modicum of success in it when Dalton was injured.

After that signing, we don't draft a Qb in the draft.

I like the idea of getting Myles Garrett and Jonathan Allen ( or McDowel) to bolster the defense. But I hate the idea of not drafting a Qb.

great point.
I expect the Browns to over pay for him if they decide
to really pursue him

I think that they need to indeed, show A.J. McCarron the money. Really is talented but will not be starter as long as Andy Dalton is around the Bengals.

1. Desperation is not how I would describe the signing of RG3. To me it was a low-cost, potentially high-reward gamble. It appears to have failed, but it didn't really cost us much.

2. Dak was my choice if we weren't going to draft any of the top 3, so I'm with you on this point. That said, declaring him a franchise QB is premature.

3. They did address the OL after Mack and Schwartz left, they signed Bailey, installed Erving into the position for which he was drafted, and drafted 2 guys who played LT in college on power 5 teams. Bailey hasn't panned out, but I wouldn't be surprised if by the end of the year, Coleman and Drango are our starting tackles (if the much discussed trade of JT happens.)

4. I would have liked to see another RB drafted too, but then Atkinson hasn't been with the team long enough yet to become part of the rotation. He might be an good addition.

5. Have you noticed Nassib and to a lesser degree Ogbah? They have already looked pretty disruptive.

It seems to me that you either don't understand the FO's plan or you have already judged it a failure before it has a chance to take hold. The plan is to build the team through the draft, not FA. It is a plan that appears to be working for Oakland, Jacksonville, and Tennessee, all of which have reached a point where adding a few key FA can make a real difference.

According to this McCarron's contract is through 2017.

Well then, I now predict that my last prediction will be wrong

I liked it...up to the point I discovered that page.

I liked it...right up to the point you discovered that page

lmao

So 31 teams passed on RGIII because he sucks but 31 teams passed on Dak because he is great.

20/20 is a good place to have vision from.

So Dak is already a franchise QB?
Hmmmmmmm......

That phrase can be turned around, bro.

Go to the RGIII threads [before he was injured] and look at all the posts saying how good RGIII was. Heck, Swish and company were saying he was better than Bradford, despite RGIII being passed over by 31 teams and Bradfoprd actually fetching compensation in two major trades.

I think talent wise he is better than Bradford.

him being injured doesn't change that fact. both are injury prone QB's, correct?

when Bradford has been healthy, he's been average at best. no playoffs, and i think no pro bowls, correct?

RG3, when healthy, has lead his team to the playoffs, and a pro bowl appearance, correct?

so you can say what you want, at least my opinion is backed by stats and their accomplishments.

What is it that you are not getting?

The Eagles TRADED for Bradford. Do you remember that or not?

The Vikings then gave a first round pick and a 4th rd pick [which could actually grow higher] for Bradford.

RGIII was beaten out in Washington by not only Kirk Cousins.......but also by Colt McCoy. Yeah, that Colt McCoy.

RGII was then released by Washington. The Jets brought him to talk to him. They passed even though Fritz was signed yet. No other team even brought him AND they did NOT even have to make a trade for him.

But yeah..............the Mighty Swish is so freaking much smarter than the ENTIRE NFL!

if bradford was so good, why can't he stick to one team?

RG3 has been on two teams. bradford is already on this third.

if he was so good, why didn't philly keep him? why did they draft Wentz if he was so good?

if he was so good, why did the rams give up on him?

again, who lead their team to a playoff birth with a pro bowl appearance, and who didn't?

at this point they both suck. but atleast RG3 has shown a hell of a lot more when healthy than bradford has.

if FO's around the league were so smart, then why do YOU and countless others question their moves?

so you're allowed to question the moves FO's make, but i'm not?

Mac and Vers...

My post in the last thread was NOT an attack on you Mac. I simply pointed out that the way you always refer to the FO as "Harvard Guys" or Harvard whatever, this seems like you have a problem with them going to Harvard or being highly educated.

Mac I think you are entitled to your opinions just like anyone else here, I will also admit that on this particular issue I feel like you are beating a dead horse BUT it's your right to beat that horse all you want.

So I'm sorry if I in some way offended you by offering up my opinion and my point of view which I know is counter to yours. Since I don't think there are any real issues here (between us), I thought I'd just take a moment to clear things up.

With that said, this FO needs time and is doing a good job so far by my account. I like what I'm seeing out of them. It may not translate to the field this year but I still like it.

I never said Bradford was good.

This began on another thread where you scolded posters for pointing out RGIII's weaknesses and said something like: "you guys act like RGIII is as bad as Bradford."

I have been trying to point out to you that NFL GMs and coaches apparently think more of Bradford than RGIII. That does NOT mean I think Bradford is good. It just means your initial comment was whacked.

Ok and I just don't Agree. It's all good.

So you disagree that NFL FO's thought a lot more highly of Bradford?

Let's see. RG3 was paid average back up money while somebody paid a huge draft investment and huge salary for Bradford. If the league felt differently than that, RG3 would have signed a long term contract for huge money. Not a two year, back up money deal.

Vers/Pit - what r u doing? .. Just gotta make sure you know what your "debating" here ...

One QB was signed as a STREET FREE AGENT .. The other QB was traded for a 1st and 4th round pick ..

*LOL* ...

Why are u wasting your time .. If someone can't understand that you really think your getting through ...