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J/C

Random thought I had- Do any of you think that "white privilege" plays into Bradford's popularity over RG3?

I mean I think a lot of Bradford's popularity is that he looks like what people think of as the "prototype" QB subconsciously.

Peyton Manning- 6'5", 230 lbs, white
Tom Brady- 6'4", 225 lbs, white
Sam Bradford- 6'4", 236 lbs

He looks like those guys on the hoof, and people seem to get caught up in that.

He hasn't shown their ability between the ears. Some of that may be the number of systems he has been in. He also hasn't shown their durability, which may also be stunting his growth.

Most NFL systems that teams use on offense are pocket passing-centric as far as the QB, that's not really RG3's forte. Doesn't mean he's not a better QB than Bradford (Doesn't mean he is either), but it's kind of like comparing apples to oranges. I like how they do it in high school/college recruiting. List pocket passers and dual threat guys separately. I think RG3 could be successful (assuming he could stay healthy), but he'd have to be in a system fitted for him, rather than trying to fit him into most systems. Since we haven't really had any time in any system long enough for our other players to get comfortable in it, we were one of the few places where it somewhat made sense to develop a system that could in places accentuate the skills he does have.

In our case Bradford had the same injury risks, but would have cost more than it did to get RG3 (money and picks). I really don't see why the Vikings thought Bradford was worth as much as they ended up giving. Shaun Hill is better by the numbers.

allow me to answer this question.

No, white privilege has absolutely nothing to do with this.

here's the problem: people are still in love with Bradford for no other reason that pure hype.

what's sad is that hype isn't even from the NFL, as he's been average at best.

his hype comes from 2008 season in Oklahoma where he threw for 4700 yards, 50 TDs and only 8 interceptions.

8 years year, this guy is living off the hype from THAT season only.

Same bradfords BEST ever season in the NFL came in 2012 when he had 3700 yards, 21 TD's, and 13 int. 124 yards rushing and 1 TD and a 82.6 QB rating

keep in mind, that year, bradford is in his 3rd nfl season.

that SAME year, RG3 is a rookie, post 3200 yards, 20 TD's and ONLY 5 INT, 815 yards rushing with 7 TD's and a 102.4 QB rating

oh, i forgot, a playoff birth, and pro bowl nod.

btw, sam bradford has never had a season with a QB rating higher than 90.9 he posted in 2013, which he only played 7 games.

so they're both ridiculously injury prone.

again, at least i'm basing my opinion on the play on the field. the stats and accomplishments in the nfl certainly back me up.

i'm not saying anybody has to agree with me, but so far nobody has came with an actual reason as to why Braford is better than RG3, other than it being based off of pure hype, and nothing else.

You are one of those people who can't ever admit to being wrong.

We have given you evidence. It's not about freaking hype. You and Grimm are living in fantasy land.

what evidence? the only evidence you given me is the fact that he got traded for a 1st rounder, to his THIRD team who in desperation mode because the QB that they ALREADY had as their franchise guy went down.

so are you gonna refute the evidence that i have laid upon you?

so far, i'm not the one who's wrong.

Are you saying that ALL NFL GMs, scouts, and coaches are dumber than you when it comes to evaluating QBs?

Are you saying being relegated to 3rd string in Washington AFTER that same team traded the farm to draft him is meaningless?

You made a dumb-ass comment. That is not a big deal. We all do that. However, you are unable to admit it and keep ignoring things in some lame-ass, desperate attempt to prove you are right.

Oh......send out a group PM to King, Rocket, CHS, and Lurker to back you up.

here's what Bradford and RG3 have in common.
both are 1st RD flops who are no longer with the team
that drafted them.
one day maybe the Browns front office will stop thinking
they are the smartest guys in the room and actually
draft a franchise QB instead of trying to sign another
teams failure to turn around the franchise.

you keep saying its a dumbass comment but you aren't telling me why.

2012 pro bowl, 2012 offensive rookie of the year, playoff birth, highest ever QB rating for a rookie QB, highest ever TD:int ratio as a rookie QB at 4:1

Sam bradford has none of that.

also, for the third time, if you're argument is boiling down to "well why did all the other teams pass on RG3"

then by your own logic, you should keep your mouth shut for here on out, as you aren't smarter than any of the GM's around the league, specifically the Browns, as you have been critical of past regimes on the QB situation.

either practice what you preach, or shut your freaking mouth.

He was 3rd string last year. Behind Colt McCoy. Do you REALLY think that Washington wanted to make him a 3rd stringer AFTER giving up so many picks for him?

I don't think I am smarter than the GMs from each and every team. But, I know I am way smarter than you!

Now, go smoke a bowl and kill even more of your brain cells.

smarter than who? the only knock you have is that the coach decided to bench him for the season.

your boy, however, TWO teams gave up on him.

let me repeat that. two teams gave up on him.

he got traded straight up for Nick freaking Foles. then, after throwing a hissy fit when philly drafted Wentz, he got traded ONLY after your favorite QB's very unfortunate injury.

the "smoke a bowl" rhetoric isn't cute, it isn't witty, it's a deflection cause you got nothing, son.

so again, i've refuted your evidence, so either refute mine, or kick rocks.

You must already be stoned out of your mind.

First of all...........I don't like Bradford. I have told you this several times. Of course, you probably can't remember because you have lost so many brain cells smoking all that "dope."

But here is something for your short-term memory. I was totally opposed to trading for Bradford when he was w/the Rams. I am so happy we did not make that trade. I do not think Bradford is a good qb.

What I do think is that RGIII is even worse. He was not benched by just one coach, as you falsely claimed, but rather by two successive coaching staffs.

He was passed over by all 31 teams and 30 of the teams did not even want to look at him...........and they didn't even have to trade for him. That doesn't ring a warning bell in your smokey head?

Look son, I was okay w/bringing the guy in. It was worth a shot, but I don't need some mouth like you telling me I can't criticize him......which is where this discussion began.

I got two words for you, Swishy................ T Rich. Remember that?

Remember Mangini?

yea, i don't either.

i've laid the evidence out that shows on the field that RG3 is better than Bradford.

That's my opinion. and so far, the numbers say i'm not wrong.

Uhmmmm............how were you able to mention Mangini if you didn't remember him? Let me guess............you're stoned again.

Your numbers are BS! What were RGIII's numbers the last two years? What were his numbers in week 1? Did you like that?

And yeah.........I said that in my Kirk Cousins voice.

what was bradford's #'s week 1?

can you remind me, again? i'm too stoned to remember.

what was it, 0 for 0, 0 yards, 0 TD's and 0 INT, right?

backup, or did he start? i can't remember.

Swishy..............I never said I liked Bradford. The argument was about RGIII. I know it was a long time ago for your drug infested mind, but yeah man...........you were upset because a few of questioned RGIII's abilities to read defenses, especially post-snap.

Btw------------who is TRich playing for now?

for somebody who's claiming to not like bradford, you sure are defending him to the death.

that's kind of a contradiction, but who am i to judge, ya know?

I don't care if anybody questions RG3's abilities. i simply made the observation that some of the same posters who blast rg3 as injury prone wanted to trade for an injury prone QB.

and then i laid the case as to why he's better than bradford.

but instead of keeping it pure football, you're saying nonsense about me being a druggie and stoner and blah blah blah.

so at this point, i'm just chalking it up to you not having any real argument for me tonight.

not really surprised. it is what it is.

hey, eric mangini has a job, right?

I am not defending Bradford. I am simply saying that your assertion that RGIII was way better than him was absurd.

and i don't agree with you.

now what? back to square one.

Uhmmmm..........you got a spare joint? I need one after that conversation.

i don't share joints with buzz kills, sorry.

j/c

Career Ratings

QB Rating
RG3-89.7
Bradford-81.0

INT %
RG3-2.2%
Bradford-2.3%

TD %
RG3-3.7%
Bradford-3.4%

Completion %
RG3-63.5%
Bradford-60.1%

AVG Yards
RG3-7.6
Bradford-6.5

I don't think saying RG3 is the better QB is without merit. Way better is a stretch.

Too bad RG3's career got derailed at the end of his rookie season. His rookie year stats are great. He got hurt and then Snyder and RG3 decided he should be a pocket passer which he's not. Then he was stuck as a square peg in a round hole for awhile. He's not for everyone, but when you can't do it the traditional way, you've got to try something. I wish Hue had put RG3 on the move more instead of trying to get him to stick in the pocket. People never tried to get Barry Sanders to play Jerome Bettis' style (I get that the timeframe isn't the best). I don't really get why they expect every QB to play like Brady and Manning. Different players have different talents. You've got to find a way to maximize them.

I've heard the running QBs get injured argument, but I'm not sure that the data really supports that conclusion (or if there is really even enough data to make a conclusion).

OMG.........another one.

So, you are saying that all the other GMs, scouts, and coaches in the NFL are dumber than you two?

This should go over well:

I should have stopped reading at that point.

Yeah........I remember you and others slaying him when he said Farmer texted the sidelines and that the Browns were dysfunctional.

He was sooooooooooooo far off on both of those.

He and Lombardi make Abbott and Costello look like serious actors...

Good one.

But, the fact remains...........he was right and you were wrong. Again.

No, I'm saying the scouts, GMs, etc. in the NFL are operating with a certain paradigm.

I'm not saying RG3 is great. I am saying Bradford isn't statistically better. Stylistically he may be preferred right now, but styles go in and out of favor. The game is constantly evolving.

For example, Urban Meyer seems to be in favor of mobile QBs and is seen as something of an offensive innovator. Could the NFL trend in this direction in the future? I know a lot of people say it won't, but there seem to be more and more of the mobile QBs coming up the college ranks.


As far as that article-

I wanted Wentz. He was my QB to get. I was okay with the trade down because there was some risk in his projection and I thought he would be throwing to the likes of Hawkins and Gabriel and still more QB than WR Pryor. If I knew Pryor would look good, Gordon would get re-instated and we could get Higgins in the middle rounds, I'd have taken Wentz.

As far as Kizer, La Confora is not someone I would go to for drafting advice. If I wanted someone to make catchy headlines and show off "20/20 hindsight," he might make the list.

You could have left your reply as hi-lighted, but no, you had to take a shot. This is precisely why I don't usually bother...

Then don't.

I think the fact who the GMs, coaches, and scouts prefer is hard to deny, no matter what you guys say.

On Wentz..........I was against drafting him and you were all in. Thus far, you look like you were right and I was wrong.

See how easy that is?

I forgot to hi-light, now corrected. It's getting late...

The preference is definitely there, and I can see how from their perspective he's the better fit for them. I think a lot of my preference for RG3 was based on being tired of seeing guys hold the ball too long in the pocket and getting killed. I thought Hue would put him on the move more and I'd at least see something a little different. Instead I saw RG3 hold the ball too long in the pocket and get killed. When he did finally get on the move he was either extremely unlucky or forgot he was supposed to avoid hits. In comes another injury replacement QB. Life as a Browns fan kinda sucks. At least knowing what bad looks like makes my other teams doing well seem a little sweeter.

I'm kind of bummed about Doctson having the achilles issue, too. I don't get to see if he looks better than Coleman for a bit.

waaay too early to tell if Wentz is going to be great or not. yes he did have a good game. but one game a career does not make. I mean there might be a reason why Goff was picked first...idk I'm all about throw Cody in there for the season and see what we have there. We already know what we have in Josh...great in the locker room. good mentor for Cody. But not the future.

On a newsy first week for quarterbacks, Browns fall further behind at the sport's crucial position

9/12/16

Tony Grossi
ESPN Cleveland
Editor's note: Tony Grossi covers the Cleveland Browns for ESPN 850 WKNR.
link

So the story of the NFL’s first week, as usual, was quarterbacks.

Most everywhere, there were young quarterbacks performing better than expected.

Carson Wentz wins his first game for the Eagles with 278 yards and two touchdowns.

Jimmy Garoppolo wins his first game for the Patriots starting for suspended Tom Brady.

Trevor Siemian wins his first game for the defending champion Broncos replacing retired Peyton Manning and departed Brock Osweiler.

Osweiler wins his first game for the Texans, his new team.

Jameis Winston gets his second season off to a winning start with four touchdowns and a 122.6 rating for the Buccaneers.

Derek Carr completes a Raiders rally past Drew Brees with a picture-perfect fade on a daring two-point conversion.

Even in defeat, some young passers impressed.

Dak Prescott had the Cowboys on the verge of beating the Giants until receiver Terrance Williams failed to run out of bounds to stop the clock for a makeable game-winning field goal attempt.

Blake Bortles of the Jaguars passed for 320 yards and threw a scare into the Packers.

Where are all the good young quarterbacks? They are out there, playing, developing, winning.

“I think there’s been a stigma that these young guys can’t come in and win games,” said Kevin Hogan, the rookie quarterback from Stanford the Browns signed to their practice squad. “And I think you’re seeing both in college and the NFL that these young guys are coming in and taking advantage of opportunities and bringing in some energy and a little bit more of a different dynamic to the offense.

“You saw it with Wentz and Dak and these other guys. Everyone has their own twist of something they can bring to the huddle.”

But the quarterback story in Cleveland is a recurring nightmare.

Robert Griffin, the latest of 25 Browns quarterbacks to start a game since 1999, breaks a bone in his shoulder running late in a 29-10 lost cause. He is out for eight weeks minimum. A re-evaluation in four weeks will determine if he’ll need surgery, which would keep him out all year.

So for the second time in two years, a veteran Browns quarterback is knocked out of the first game of the season. A year ago, it was Josh McCown with a concussion as he tried to helicopter over Jets defenders near the goal line.

Now the Browns will turn again to McCown, 37, to take over the team as the Ravens make their annual visit. McCown hasn’t played in a regular game since breaking his collarbone in Game 11 last year – against the Ravens.

And on and on it goes.

Teams throughout the NFL are securing their quarterback position with young arms. The Browns still don’t know who their future quarterback is.

They thought Griffin, at 26, was young enough and still on the ascent to give him first crack at the long-term job. They chose to use their prime draft position to collect future picks.

Griffin’s injury history was well known. His lithe body type does not hold up to the rigors of the position. They knew that.

All the more reason to use the No. 2 pick on a bigger, bolder prospect such as Wentz to groom. But we know now the Browns collectively did not consider Wentz a future “top 20” NFL quarterback.

The Browns used a third-round pick on Cody Kessler and then added Hogan to the practice squad. Coach Hue Jackson said they will get increased reps as the “next men up” in case McCown can’t stay healthy.

There are no plans to bring in another quarterback, Jackson said.

On Friday, Sashi Brown, executive director of football operations, said the Browns weren’t looking at Griffin as a short-term solution to the position. But now he is no solution – short- or long-term.

On Monday, Jackson was asked how Griffin’s injury affects the team’s thinking about the 2017 draft.

“I haven’t thought that far yet,” Jackson replied. “There’s Baltimore right around the corner here. That’s probably what’s totally on my mind. I’m sure it’ll be a conversation pretty soon.”

For the fourth time in five years, the Browns will enter the draft with at least two picks in the first round.

Everybody else is securing their quarterback position. The Browns have fallen even further behind.

j/c:

Don't mind me....just adding some fuel to the fire.


https://twitter.com/DawgsByNature/status/776403471016730624

Time will tell....

Yes, it is early, but based on early returns this is disturbing and doesn't bode well for our future.

It is rather unnerving

That's not a ringing endorsement

My biggest concern is, and it's been discussed on the radio, that Hue has been connected/rumored to wanting these four QBs this offseason.

1. Goff
2. Kaepernick
3. RG3
4. Kessler

That's not the most confident list and, I guess it's unfair to RG to assume he would have auto-failed this year, but the past is certainly a factor in judging him.

Very early on for Goff and Kessler. Hue too.