DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum The Browns Front Office....still not ready for prime time..(imo)

How many first round picks would a team with no franchise QB trade for a franchise QB?

Until proven otherwise, this front office shouldn't get a pass for not picking a potential long-term QB. Picks are nice on paper, but they don't mean anything if you don't draft properly with them.

For those of you who say build the team, then get the QB; isn't that what teams like the Rams, Texans, Dolphins did? How well has that worked out for them those past seasons?

This is what we got for trading our of the 2nd spot in the draft:

Cleveland Browns netted nine players, three high picks with trades - Cleveland Browns Blog- ESPN
http://www.espn.com/blog/cleveland-brown...th-draft-trades

All told, the Browns gave up a first, fourth and fifth-round pick this year and a fourth-round pick in 2017.

With the picks they acquired, the Browns gained:

WR Corey Coleman (first round, 15th overall)

OT Shon Coleman (third round, 76th overall)

QB Cody Kessler (third round, 93rd overall)

WR Ricardo Louis (fourth round, 114th overall)

S Derrick Kindred (fourth round, 129th overall)

WR Jordan Payton (fifth round, 154th overall)

OT Spencer Drango (fifth round, 168th overall)

LB Scooby Wright III (seventh round, 250th overall)

A swap of seventh-round picks on Day 3 led to the team acquiring cornerback Jamar Taylor from Miami.

They also acquired the Eagles' first-round pick in 2017, the Titans' second-round pick in 2017 and the Eagles' second-round pick in 2018.

Okay...so two of those players are current contributors? A few special teams players? What's with that OT they drafted in the 3rd round? Shouldn't he be playing if he's not hurt?

He is prone to injuries and saying a young man sucks because of it is a harsh view to take of one of our players.

I'm sure Hue didn't mean, "Trust me, he'll be ready to start week 3 with one week of reps."

Shon Coleman had knee surgery in January. They were bringing him along slowly.

IF people want to judge Hue based on how a 3rd round developmental QB plays starting week three instead of year 2 or 3 then they are idiots. Flat out idiots. At this point it's just gravy if he doesn't get killed out there. No coach in his right mind thinks, "Hey lets draft a QB in round 3 and start him game three after very little reps during preseason."

I mean come on people Bud is just a troll right now.

IF Wentz is a franchise QB, we'd need more than half of those guys to be major NFL players to even call it a wash.

Guys like Louis/Payton/Drango are dime a dozen, unless they REALLY progress

I think that Corey Coleman and Kindred are going to be stars in this league. Louis has a huge WR body, and really good speed. Yes he is raw, but raw doesn't automatically mean junk. The nice thing is .... with guys like Coleman, and Pryor, and Gordon (when he comes back) we don't have to force Louis into the offense without being ready. He can be a core special teams guy while he develops as a receiver. I don't know what he'll become, but the physical side is there.

You are washing out the draft class before they get a chance to learn, grow, and develop. I hope the Browns don't do that.

We also have 2 first round picks and 2 second round pick in next year's draft., and there are a number of very interesting QBs who will almost certainly become available. We will almost certainly be drafting at the top of each round, and should be able to add 3 or 4 major impact players. I suspect that the Titans will not be a top team this year, and their 2nd should be valuable.

Anyway, until we see how next year's draft unfolds, (at the least) we can't grade this trade. I like the (and I hate to use this word .. but) potential we have. I am impressed with what Wentz has done so far, but I am curious to see how he does against good defenses.

The season isn't over at week 2, and this trade isn't over quite yet either.

J/c

The real question is would Wentz look like a franchise QB behind our OL throwing to the receivers we thought we'd have during the draft.

There is the behind our OL part, where we are already down 2 QBs. Wentz wasn't known for making quick reads at NDSU. There's a good chance he'd be getting beat like a dirty rug during an old school spring cleaning.

Then there is the who did we have for him to throw to part. During the draft, we had a bare cupboard at WR. Pryor had something like 1 career catch and last we saw still looked like a guy learning the position. Gordon was still indefinitely suspended. Hawkins had been hurt a good portion of the season. Gabriel had regressed it appeared to me. Hartline had been injured and looked like he was starting to slow down. If we had taken Wentz, we wouldn't have Coleman.

If we knew Pryor would make massive improvement and Gordon would be back week 5, I would most likely have taken Wentz. However, at the time of the draft, neither of those things looked particularly likely. Hindsight can be 20/20, foresight only works in sci-fi and fantasy.

It looks like we have weapons worth throwing to now. Assuming there is a QB we like next year, he should have nice targets to make his job easier. We should have the ammunition to get whoever we like if we aren't at the top of the order somehow. Kessler still has a chance to surprise as well.

I agree - an OL with Mack and Schwartz - and Wentz behind center .... would look pretty good based on how Wentz has performed. . . I think most would agree.

Mack wasn't going to stay. Period. So that changes the equation/discussion.

Hue went to Wentz's pro day and whether Wentz didn't have a good day or whatever it was. Hue and the FO took the deal to trade out of the #2 slot. End of story. Maybe they didn't think Wentz was ready - maybe they thought he was junk and they made a terrible misjudgment of talent - maybe they loved him but the offer of so many building blocks on such a crappy team was simply too tempting .... we don't know. We never will.

Small sample size - but it looks like we missed on a genuine opportunity for a Franchise QB .... I'll repeat - sample size is still small. But he definitely passes the early eye test in spades.

The FO has a plan - lets see how it unravels. The improvement from week 1 to week 2 was significant. Encouraging from young talent perspective and coaching perspective. . . Let's hope Kessler plays better than expected. But if he doesn't - do we need to discuss how the offense would look like with a fictitious line up again (and again and again)? We could play that game with Derek Carr, Cooper and Mack who are all in Oakland and who could all have been drafted by the Browns? Yeah - I know it was a different regime, and that regime failed more than miserably. But this FO hasn't failed yet... assuming they missed on a franchise QB. They made a choice on how to build the team and based on selections like Coleman, Ogbah, Nassib and Schobert I am encouraged. Missing on a franchise QB doesn't mean a catastrophic failure ... it's entirely possible that it's a win/win.... lets see how this years rookies develop and see how next year's draft plays out.

We went through 3 QBs every season when they were both here, too. Previous regimes created our problems by constant dysfunction. Who would honestly want to play here if given a choice?

And yes, our receivers were junk. The passing numbers may have looked decent as far as total yardage, but one of the biggest chunks was Barnidge who isn't a receiver and he played better than he had before or is likely to play again.

Also we had to throw like crazy due to playing from behind and racked up a lot of the numbers in garbage time.

j/c

so, idealistically, our offense COULD look like this:

Thomas, Bitonio, Mack, Greco, Schwartz

Wentz

Crowell/Duke

Barnidge

Gordon, Pryor, Coleman

Coleman was acquired with a pick (ultimately) via the Eagles trade ... we couldn't have them both. (Wentz and Coleman).... also remember Pryor was a total project who most would not have believed would make the team. Gordon was an unknown - and even now many or possibly most think he is going to blow it.

If we dont take Ogbah and WR was a priority (fair assumption based on the draft) Sterling Shepherd and Michael Thomas were available at the top of the second round.

To have both Wentz and Coleman would mean either we traded up to take Coleman or he fell to us in the 2nd and we wouldn't have Ogbah.

My bad. Forgot about that. Thanks guys.

I'd say they were a function of the whole team.

Our top WR(#1) was Travis Benjamin at 40th in receiving in the league.
He averaged 60 yds a game. He's best as a number three receiver and deep threat. He made big plays on Manziel magic scramble plays for the most part. Take those away and he's not very good.

Hartline was our next WR(#2) tied for 83rd in the league in receiving with 43.6 yds a game. He made some tough catches, but they had to be because he often struggled to create separation.

Gabriel was our next WR (#3) at 157th in the league in receiving with 18.5 yards a game.

NFL.com Individual player receiving stats.

Our overall passing numbers were inflated by Barnidge's outlier of a season and Duke. Our receivers were poor.

How's that for facts?

edit: Also, Benjamin signed with SD before the draft. So 83rd in the league in receiving was our best returning WR.

I think it was dumb not to resign Schwartz, but the OL isn't the reason the QBs got hurt.

Mac not sure why the hate for Harvard but I would rather have Harvard guys than community college boys...just my opinion.

I'd rather have guys smart enough to draft the #2 QB when they're holding the #2 pick. Letting Schwartz walk was stupid. Signing RGIII was stupid. Passing on Wentz was stupid. Drafting Kessler in the third instead of Dak was stupid. Ergo, they're stupid. JMHO

I am sooooo tired of people making crap up in regards to the free agents. I posted an article just the other day that refutes your claim.

I don't know if I agree with that or with Schwartz.....but that doesn't matter to me any more. I did like Wentz and wanted to take him and not look back. I was cool with us not taking him until now. Somewhere along the way was said he wasn't a top 20 QB. Some think top 20 in the league. I don't think that. I believe the meaning was top 20 pick, but either way, he is looking to make that comment foolish....BE IT 2 GAMES. That could change and the comment holds. Some years back I wanted Berger Boy. Since that time he has done nothing but drink our whiskey and have his way with our women.



My only hope is we evaluated not only this crop of QB's, but next years as well and decided it is a QB in the next draft we want next year.


That said....picks are great, but at some point soon we need more players. I do agree we are going to need to spend some money to get players, probably some FA players in the mix as well.

To me it would have been good to get Wentz this year because we still don't have a QB and IMO are now another year behind the 8 ball.



Now we get to see the coach pick in Kessler. Coach told us to trust him, so I will. I expect we will see something at least kind of, sort of like Wentz.....though I don't really think we will......but I expect it.


For a long time a part of my sig was Expect to Win. While it may have been removed at one point, the attitude hasn't changed.

peen..............I like your post. A ton of good points. I do disagree in one area..................Mack flew back to Cleveland from California to meet w/the Browns about staying here. This assumption that there was "no chance" of him staying here is a fallacy made up by a poster or two and repeated over and over and over again until it has been accepted as the truth on there because it has been stated so many damn times.

I have had this debate before about demonstrating integrity on this board. We are posting things that many people see. Opinions are cool. They can be as whacked as whacked can be. However, stating things as fact that are outright fabrications are simply wrong. People read this, repeat it, and it gets repeated over and over and over again.

I think opinions and facts should be separated. It's called ethics and integrity.

"This is the only life I get to live," Mack said. "Life in football is even shorter. There are decisions that have to be made that are tough, but you only have so much time to play football.

"I felt it was time to experience a new city and team to make the best out of my football career."

Alex Mack's Difficult Decision to Finally Leave Cleveland

Did he say that BEFORE he left Cleveland?

And are you really going to make me re-post the article where both Mack and the Brown's FO said he might stay?

And if you call Mack a liar, then the FO are liars too, because both said they were trying to work out a deal.

"I felt it was time to experience a new city and team to make the best out of my football career."

^ So you are saying Mack LIED when he made the above statement? ^ But really meant he might stay?

"This was an extremely difficult decision,'' Mack said in a statement. "After careful consideration, I concluded it was time to start a new chapter in my life. "


http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2016/03/browns_alex_mack_signs_with_fa.html

Vambo I posted that article several times to no avail.

Yeah I hate when Vers makes things up...

Are you trying to start another fight?

I asked you a specific question. Did Mack make that comment BEFORE or AFTER he left Cleveland?

I also asked you if you saw the article I posted where both the FO and Mack said they were talking about a new contract.

I get that you don't want the truth to come out. But Vambo, I am not going to allow your untruths to win out on this particular issue.

Are you saying Mack LIED when he said...



"I felt it was time to experience a new city and team to make the best out of my football career."

and

"This was an extremely difficult decision,'' Mack said in a statement. "After careful consideration, I concluded it was time to start a new chapter in my life. "



...the truth is out he wanted to go!

I am asking you one more time...................did he say that BEFORE or AFTER he left Cleveland?

Mar 3, 2016
Pat McManamon
ESPN Staff Writer
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Cleveland Browns center Alex Mack voided the three years remaining on his contract on Wednesday and is set to become a free agent.

Mack, who had $24 million left on his deal, can still return to Cleveland and could once again become the NFL's highest-paid center. Mack's agent, Tim Younger, said that Mack's return to Cleveland is a real option.

"Alex is definitely leaving open the possibility of returning," Younger said via email. "He enjoyed his visit last week, but this is the first opportunity he has had to truly choose where he will play next season."

Mack, 30, had to decide on the opt-out by this Friday, with unrestricted free agency beginning March 9. It is in his contract that he cannot be tagged.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/14884993/cleveland-browns-alex-mack-opting-contract

6 days later...

Published: March 9, 2016 at 01:33 p.m. Updated: March 9, 2016 at 04:22 p.m

The Atlanta Falcons agreed to a five-year contract with the three-time Pro Bowl center, the team announced Wednesday.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000...-with-alex-mack

hope this helps...not sure what difference it makes if he said it before or after tho...Mack had every opportunity to stay. he chose to be else where. could have just played out his contract even.

He said it that's all that matters. He made the decision.

LOL..................sure.