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The Good:

Nassib has the makings of a very good player.

Pryor had a nice catch.

The Bad:

RGIII still cannot step up and throw from the pocket.

The Browns CBs are terrible.

Coleman letting the ball doink off his hands.

The game plan seemed discombobulated.

The Ugly:

That snap from Erving. Oof.

The fake punt. I'm not sure what the hell that was.
We Chuck Pagano'd the fake punt.


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The good...our punter attempted to tackle Sproles on his killer punt return...

The bad...the talent on this team is so inferior...dead last roster (49ers are right near there too)

The ugly...Will it get alot better anytime soon? I doubt it...organization can't draft anyone worthy of their draft selection, and can't lure any upper echelon FAs


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Quote:
We Chuck Pagano'd the fake punt.


LOL..........I forgot about that. That term should become popular on all sports-talk shows.

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that alignment on the punt was SOOO dumb


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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We had issues in preseason about trying to get cute and not having the full array of personnel on the field.

We need to hire someone that can count to 11. Harvard degree a requirement.

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Originally Posted By: Dawg_LB
We had issues in preseason about trying to get cute and not having the full array or personnel on the field.

We need to hire someone that can count to 11. Havard degree a requirement.


Find a genetic freak with one extra finger


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Nigel's available



Browns is the Browns

... there goes Joe Thomas, the best there ever was in this game.

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I'm having a hard time with this, I agree with every single word of this post including the Wentz thing. I didn't think he or Goff were worth picks that high.. sounds like we were both dead wrong, but it's still early. He was playing the Browns Defense afterall, so there is that.


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Let me preface this by saying that the world is not ending. Yes Philly is a rebuilding team just like we are, but they start the rebuilding with the second best o-line in football and a defensive front 7 that is a top 5 unit. We are starting a ton of rookies and with rookies come growing pains.


The Good:

Pryor is our best WR. He runs good routes, fights for the ball, catches everything, and even blocks well. He is much farther along than I expected him to be.

Hats off to Danny Shelton, who played the best game I've seen him play yet. He still has a way to go, but if he keeps up that intensity he will get better. In fact the Defensive front 7 as a whole looked really good against a great Eagles offensive line.

Also the offensive line, particularly the middle, played really well for the most part. They started to break down toward the end of the game, but that was when the Eagles were able to pin their ears back. Erving had a surprisingly solid game other than the bad snap.

Our safeties overall looked pretty good and did well in run support. Nothing spectacular, but nothing that was a liability either.


The Bad:

Hue's QB choices so far. I was one of the people that didn't want to risk taking Wentz at the #2 spot. I had Wentz rated above Goff, but would have preferred Lynch with our second pick or Dak Prescott even later. Hue preferred Goff and when he wasn't there we traded down. Wentz had a great first game and showed poise. It looks like he is a keeper. We wound up reaching for a QB that I wasn't very fond of, Cody Kessler. Dak Prescott also looked pretty good in his debut despite Zeke Elliot having a less than stellar running game to compliment him. I didn't question Hue's signing of RG3, in fact, I thought it was a good idea. I did get a bit of a shock when he was named a starter so early though. There are a lot of things that need to be fixed with him and I just didn't believe that all of those things were fixed when he was named the starter. Hue has dumbed down his reads but he is still slow in recognition. His mechanics did look better in the pre-season, but in game one he slipped back to his old form. Also his accuracy was much better before, particularly on his long ball, but that has been off since the beginning of pre-season. That could be because he is still working on mechanics and I hope that is the case. I think that we would have won this first game if McCown was starting at QB.

General sloppiness. This is expected by this many rookies and can only be fixed with time.

The case of the dropsies. It was expected from Coleman being a rookie, but Barnidge didn't do the team any favors on Sunday.


The Ugly:

Another bad snap by Erving. This is a mental issue. He is so worried about his assignment and making line adjustments that he forgets his own mechanics.

Our corners are horrible. I don't know what percentage of plays that we were in a Nickle defense, but it was probably the most we have played Nickle in history. Tramon Williams plays the Nickle spot worse than he did on the Right. Taylor is a Nickle CB at best. I think it's time to switch those two back to their normal spots. Hayden is still a step slow coming off his ankle injury. He may have re-tweeked that ankle as well so this might be a long season.

Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
Quote:
I agree. We all recognize (or should) that this is a learning process and it is going to take time...


I agree with U that this is a season for learning ..


I've been thinking about this.......even before yesterday's game.

A lot of people have bought into the new plan completely. I do see a couple of flaws.

1. We have 13 rookies and several 2nd year players. What happens when their contracts all come up in back-to-back year? We will more than likely lose some of the better guys in free agency and the excuse makers will say it wasn't the fault of the front office because the guys wanted to leave. Well, I think it is a problem to not a variety of experience on your roster and to have some flexibility in handling contracts.

2. This one addresses the point you two made. We all expect the Browns to lose this year. Most expect the Browns to lose next year. What are we building? An atmosphere and culture of losing? Not sure if you guys played sports, but continued losing is not a recipe for success.

I have a serious question for you guys. How many players do we have on our roster that have won playoff games? I don't think it is too many. How do you build a winning culture w/guys who have only experienced losing?

I don't want to get into a big argument about this [Grimm and crew,] rather I just want some of you to at least take the time to contemplate the question.


Your first worry shouldn't be an issue if our plan is working properly. The fact that all of these first and second year players have won jobs is a reflection on how weak this roster was to begin with. Some of these guys will be here long enough to play out their contract, but a lot will not. We will have just as many, if not more draft picks in the next draft and all of those guys will be fighting for roster spots as well. If we keep drafting well, we might wind up with a handful of really good players that need to be resigned 5 years from now, but that is a good problem to have.

As to your second point, Here are two teams ready to make the next step.

The Oakland Raiders
2012 4-12
2013 4-12
2014 3-13
2015 7-9
My 2016 prediction 10-6

The Jacksonville Jaguars
2012 2-14
2013 4-12
2014 3-13
2015 5-11
My 2016 prediction 8-8

Oakland and Jacksonville have followed the same path that we are following. Jacksonville has spent some money in FA in the last couple of years, but I also think that they are a year behind Oakland in becoming a team that could go far in the playoffs.

Oakland's top players Derek Carr, Kahlil Mack, Amari Cooper are all young draft choices that are home grown.

The Jags' top players Blake Bortles, Jalen Ramsey, Allen Robinson, Dante Fowler Jr. are all young draft choices that are home grown.

You can have all the winning culture that you want and still lose if you don't have enough young and cheap talent to build on.

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in the cases of OAK and JAX, they also invested in a HIGH 1st round QB. Something we didn't do this past year, and as of now, looks to be the wrong decision.


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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Yes but they invested in other pieces first.

Both QB's were drafted in 2014. No use drafting a guy that gets killed before you can build a team around him. (see Tim Couch)

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Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
in the cases of OAK and JAX, they also invested in a HIGH 1st round QB. Something we didn't do this past year, and as of now, looks to be the wrong decision.


Carr was a second rounder.

We passed on him not 1, not 2, but 3 times.

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Originally Posted By: clevesteve
Originally Posted By: Dawgs4Life
in the cases of OAK and JAX, they also invested in a HIGH 1st round QB. Something we didn't do this past year, and as of now, looks to be the wrong decision.


Carr was a second rounder.

We passed on him not 1, not 2, but 3 times.


And not only did we pass him by, but we traded up in the first for this guy:

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Omg, hahahahhahahaha.

Being a huge fan of the Chappelle Show, that picture is just completely hilarious to me. I'm actually still laughing in my office. Shocked Noone has came in here yet to see what the scoop is.

Funny post bro, ty!

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Good argument, but both Oakland and Jax have brought in free agents to help their young players.

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Recently yes, as we will once we have some young talent.

I think the Jags actually made a mistake by signing some good but not great guys to some huge contracts as well and that is going to make it harder for them to get to the next level and not easier.

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Originally Posted By: DeputyDawg
Recently yes, as we will once we have some young talent.

I think the Jags actually made a mistake by signing some good but not great guys to some huge contracts as well and that is going to make it harder for them to get to the next level and not easier.



Except they rolled over their cap room (like we will be doing) and still have a ton of room.

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The good ....

#1 - Carl Nassib. This kid was everywhere.
#2 - Pryor made a great catch along the sideline.
#3 - Corey Coleman made a great play on what was a terrible throw and decision.
#4 - I thought our young pass rushers looked OKAY ... Still need someone to separate themselves from the pack. (looks like that'll be Nassib very soon).

The bad ....

#1 - RG3 was injured in garbage time. That's incredibly frustrating.
#2 - The run defense was inconsistent. That's being nice.
#3 - RG3's accuracy looked terrible. Part of that I'm sure was the offensive line, but he had some awful looking throws.

The ugly ....

#1 - The pass defense was atrocious, just as I've been predicting it would be for the last two weeks.
#2 - The offensive line struggled, big time.
#3 - The lack of a run game, or attempt to even run was disturbing.
#4 - Where the hell was Duke Johnson?


We're in for a long, painful season.

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Good: nassib and kindred, who came up and made a nice one-on-one tackle early on. I turned to my buddy and said "he will be starting in 2017 if not before."

Pryor looks like he belongs as an NFL receiver.
OL wasn't that bad, I thought. Thomas' guy getting by him for a sack wasn't all on Joe.
Duke made some plays for us.
DL played well at times but early on the Eagles were getting five, six yards on 1st-down run plays.

Bad & Ugly:

Our secondary looked terrible, RG3 had some good and bad moments, but those drops were drive killers, stealers of momentum and confidence. Griffin is not a pocket passer, it's just not in him to be good at it consistently.

The fake punt was not only a dumb idea at that point, it was poorly designed - punter at the line?
Not a good decision with a young team, on the road when facing a rookie QB - we made it too easy for him.

I'm not too bummed about the game cuz we are just getting a foundation beneath us. We will lose a lot of games this season, so fans need to temper their expectations and expect some lumps.


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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog


I've been thinking about this.......even before yesterday's game.

A lot of people have bought into the new plan completely. I do see a couple of flaws.

1. We have 13 rookies and several 2nd year players. What happens when their contracts all come up in back-to-back year? We will more than likely lose some of the better guys in free agency and the excuse makers will say it wasn't the fault of the front office because the guys wanted to leave. Well, I think it is a problem to not a variety of experience on your roster and to have some flexibility in handling contracts.


It theoretically could be an issue, but I don't expect it will be. We'll only keep the best of the bunch and replace the rest with cheaper rookies. You can also theoretically stagger the cap hits based upon front-loading, rear-loading, etc. Hopefully the FO and Hue will have better relationships with their players and more will want to stay. Of course that would depend on continuity.

Originally Posted By: Vers

2. This one addresses the point you two made. We all expect the Browns to lose this year. Most expect the Browns to lose next year. What are we building? An atmosphere and culture of losing? Not sure if you guys played sports, but continued losing is not a recipe for success.


I expect progress. I don't expect us to lose next year. It was not an auspicious start, but I'm going to try not to over-react to one game. The Brown's organization is saying the right things about playing to win, but yeah, definitely gonna have to see that on the field. We've had a culture of losing, that's hard to change. Hue is preaching winning every day and always getting better. We definitely got bum rushed by the Eagles, but we could bounce back. I think the Eagles D is gonna be one of the top D's in the League this season. I had forgotten that they had signed McLeod. He and Jenkins were covering a lot of ground on the back end. I actually thought we kept Cox pretty quiet.

Originally Posted By: Vers

I have a serious question for you guys. How many players do we have on our roster that have won playoff games? I don't think it is too many. How do you build a winning culture w/guys who have only experienced losing?

I don't want to get into a big argument about this [Grimm and crew,] rather I just want some of you to at least take the time to contemplate the question.


I didn't know I had a crew. nanner

The lack of playoff experience is pretty stomach-turning. I suppose we need to concentrate on making the playoffs before we worry too much about experience there, though...I want to add luckily there, but I guess it's really not.

We'll have to build it (a winning culture) from the ground up with the HC setting the tone/standard. Make the playoffs and get the young guys experience. Rinse and repeat kind of like Cinci. Hopefully with a little fewer experiences with early exits. We need everybody to hold strong and not get beaten down by early struggles and negativity. Whether or not that is possible remains to be seen.


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The Good

Cam Erving looked much better. Yes he had the bad snap, he whiffed on one block, and got pancaked by a D-lineman once lol But other than those three plays he actually played well.

Nassib looked really good again. Rushing the passer, knocking down passes, and playing the run. The kid is looking really good so far.

Pryors ability to adjust to the long pass and go up and get it. His blocking skills, his route running, and even his hands are much better than I thought they would be at this point.

The bad

Barnidge dropping both passes. Then RGIII ignoring him the rest of the game.

RGIII's play in the pocket. Holding the ball way to long. not running when he did have open lanes to run into, missing open receivers.

The ugly

They completely screwed up fake punt.

Our Defense once again.


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I am going to start a thread about "the plan" in PFF shortly. I hope we all can have an intelligent conversation.

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
I am going to start a thread about "the plan" in PFF shortly. I hope we all can have an intelligent conversation.


Mac makes posts that rarely demonstrate intelligent conversation and you praise him. Oldcold has made a couple of posts asking for patience and you blast him. As long as we are "hoping" for things in your new thread, I'm hoping you don't continue to do this.

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I don't praise mac. I don't even agree w/him. I am just tired of how so many are ganging up on him.

I did not blast OCD for preaching patience. I blasted him for blaming the fans for the Brown's problems.

I hope you learn to read better before replying on the proposed thread.

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Vers - not sure where it's at but I wanted to address your losing culture post ..

I agree before u win u have to create a winning culture .. I get it .. I understand it .. We're in a re-build .. In stage 1 of a re-BUILD your going to lose and your going to lose a whole hell of a lot .. Hopefully this group (my heart is shining typing that CAUE IMO this FO has ZERO SHOT) gets us to the next step witch is bringing in some vets who have won to teach the young TALENTED kids how to win, therefore creating the winning environment we both know ALMOST ALWAYS PROCEEDS winning ..

I think this FO is doomed to fail .. But they have done a few things right IMO and I may disagree with some of the other things they've done but I can understand why they did them .. Just a difference of opinion .. Will save that for your thread about the plan ..

I see no viable alternative in creating the winning environment now that doesn't put a MAJOR DENT into the re-BUILD ..

Do u have a viable alternative that does not slow down the re-BUILD?




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I haven't made the thread yet, bro.

I did have an ulterior plan, but it's too late for that.

I have just been giving a lot of thought to the claims of many posters who say that "the Brown's FO has a solid plan in place."

I get the plan and it can work. However, I think there are 3 things that can derail that plan. I am not saying that they will happen for certain. I am saying that an inquisitive mind analyzes, predicts, and evaluates all aspects of any particular plan.

I'm looking forward to hearing your comments when I make that thread. Oh, and bro............many will think that my sole intent will be to bad-mouth the FO, but that is not the case. I actually have more hope for the FO/Hue than you do....LOL. I just like discussing such things.

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Here's a quick advanced statistical snapshot of the Browns from Football Outsiders:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef

Overall Defense ranking 32nd

Pass defense ranking: 27th

Run defense: 19th

I can post the individual grades from PFF if anyone is curious about what they graded

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I am interested. I always like to compare their grades to what I saw.

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Originally Posted By: edromeo
Here's a quick advanced statistical snapshot of the Browns from Football Outsiders:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef

Overall Defense ranking 32nd

Pass defense ranking: 27th

Run defense: 19th

I can post the individual grades from PFF if anyone is curious about what they graded
well nowhere to go but up wink


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I don't think the 32 is actual overall rank. It is what they forecast our defense to be over the course of the season with 90% of that value coming from their preseason projections for us (what they call defense Dave).

Our DVOA (which is closer to overall rank, I think) for week 1 was 23rd at 15.4%. (negative numbers are better for defensive DVOA so we still weren't good.)

Indy posted a 42.7% DVOA which is terrible. The worst teams are usually around 30%.


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Yes, you are right about their 32nd overall ranking is projection based.


The run defense was decent all things considered....we'll see what it looks like now with Horton's tinkering with lineup and remove Cooper for Nassib.

I think its a mistake that addresses the wrong problem. I think they really need to address the coverage issues. In stead of messing with the personnel in the front 7 I would change the scheme on the back half and play more 2-deep coverages that give our CBs help as opposed to Cover-1/Cover 3 schemes.

Imo playing Single high safety leaves our CBs too exposed AND switching out Nassib in those schemes weakens the strength of Single high schemes which is run stopping.

Neither here nor there but I think the run game could be even better if Davis had speed/range. I still think the best ILB tandem on this team would be Kirksey/Schobert.

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run defense has been surprisingly good compared to what i expected

but overall, we still can't get off the field and don't have any playmakers


"First down inside the 10. A score here will put us in the Super Bowl. Cooper is far to the left as Njoku settles into the slot. Moore is flanked out wide to the right. Chubb and Ford are split in the backfield as Watson takes the snap ... Here we go."
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I agree w/you about the corners. They play soft.

There is a problem w/our safeties, too. None of them have very good range. I have seen where people wanna play Campbell and the rookie together. Both are SS types and the lack of field coverage would be even less than it is now w/Poyer.

Playing Cover 2 might help disguise those weaknesses, but then we would be taking Campbell out of the box and the run defense might suffer.

Overall, I think that you brought up an interesting idea. I will try and watch those guys closer this week. It's just so hard to watch individual players on D anymore. The cameras cut away so fast to show yet another graphic or promo for a show or a coach's/QB face that it is sometimes hard to tell who is whom.

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
There is a problem w/our safeties, too. None of them have very good range. I have seen where people wanna play Campbell and the rookie together. Both are SS types and the lack of field coverage would be even less than it is now w/Poyer.
For me the safety play was much better then CBs. I wouldn't put their evaluation on the same level at all because the CB play was terrible and S play was decent.

All of them have good speed. Now whether or not they have the insticts and discipline is a question that only time can answer. But, they have ample speed to cover ground. I remember my little layman's couch "scouting" of Campbell 2 years ago and Kindred last year and thought both could play 1/2 field cover 2 safety. I think both suffer from sterotyping/labeling that happens with some college "strong safeties". I remember getting into discussions about Eric Reid and Adrain Amos specifically. Both were college "strong safeties" that I considered to be able to play Strong and Free Safeties and both were able to make that transition in the NFL.

Actually on Jordan Matthews TD from the slot probably could be a negative play on IC he was playing centerfield FS and for some reason stopped his feet in the middle of the field looking at the TE (but both ILB were in the middle of the field) instead of continuing to back peddle then get over top the slot defender. But it wasn't a negative of range/speed it was a negative on recognition/discipline which would be reduced w/ playing half field as opposed to center field.


Playing Campbell and Kindred together is interesting, but I'm not sure why Kindred would vault over Poyer? According to Horton Kindred will play some which I like dude is very aggressive and physical safety play can set the tone and give the defense a boost/swagger. But, I wouldn't start him over Poyer at this point.

I'm not sure what you expect from our single deep FS in terms of coverage. Often times they're only responsible for the middle 1/3 or providing over top help to a certain side/player. So I wouldn't say that Poyer lack's range either.

Quote:
Playing Cover 2 might help disguise those weaknesses, but then we would be taking Campbell out of the box and the run defense might suffer.
Yes. Playing cover 2 would likely impact have a negative impact on the run game. But, the onus would be on Campbell to be very disciplined in his run/pass keys and to see come up and play aggressive/physical in the run game. Over the years there have been solid run teams that play predominately cover 2.

Playing cover 2 would shift some of the responsibility for deep coverage and making plays on the ball away from the CBs and onto the shoulders of the safeties and the "hole" LB.

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Overall, I think that you brought up an interesting idea. I will try and watch those guys closer this week. It's just so hard to watch individual players on D anymore. The cameras cut away so fast to show yet another graphic or promo for a show or a coach's/QB face that it is sometimes hard to tell who is whom.
That's why got nflgame pass, the all-22 answers a lot of questions that the TV field doesn't show. If you every have a question about the coverage of a couple/few specific plays let me know, I would be happy to post screen caps (or maybe one day learn how to post gifs).



How do you feel about the supposed move to Nassib to 5-tech/34 DE?

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and S play was decent.


I strongly disagree on this one. The two young safeties are straight line runners and do not have the hip flexibility to change directions smoothly. I am not in the practice of sterotyping anyone, never mind safeties.


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How do you feel about the supposed move to Nassib to 5-tech/34 DE?


Uhmmmm........not really sure about this one. My instincts tell me that he might get exposed in the running game, but he surprised me last week w/his instincts, so I will w/hold judgement.

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Originally Posted By: Versatile Dog
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and S play was decent.


I strongly disagree on this one. The two young safeties are straight line runners and do not have the hip flexibility to change directions smoothly. I am not in the practice of sterotyping anyone, never mind safeties.
Are you saying that S play was bad last game?

I will agree that IC and Kindred don't have the most fluid hips I've seen but imo they certainly have enough to play the position. For me watching them on all-22 their success/failure will depend on their recognition and discipline. The mistakes that I see aren't due to a lack of physical talent (i.e. change of direction/speed/range). Neither here nor there but those physical shortcoming are evident in the play of D. Davis.

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How do you feel about the supposed move to Nassib to 5-tech/34 DE?
...Uhmmmm........not really sure about this one. My instincts tell me that he might get exposed in the running game, but he surprised me last week w/his instincts, so I will w/hold judgement.
Me too. I think its a mistake to play Nassib at 5-tech due to his size and playing style but again time will tell (if they even play him at 5-tech)

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It's one game and I will keep an eye on it, but in my opinion, the entire secondary was sub-par in terms of coverage.

They get worked in space. They have a really hard time on crossing routes. We just do not have a lot of guys w/coverage ability. I like the aggressiveness of the two young dudes on tackling, but they really seem stiff in coverage.

It's early. I'll keep an eye on it and I am sure you will, too.

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The good: This was game one season one......
The bad: This was game one season one....
The ugly: RG3 getting hurt. He has a lot of work to do in his reformation and he's not able to for 8 weeks or longer.... that sucks. I don't know if he can become an NFL quarterback but I do know he put in the work. He changed from the selfish diva to a leader of men. Every coach said he had worked very hard. He did everything they asked and then some.... That is the ugly thing about this sport. Injury ends seasons and sometimes it ends dreams.


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