DawgTalkers.net Forums DawgTalk Pure Football Forum Carson Wentz: After the Fact

As you already know, what do the posters on this board know?

LOL...........that's true.

I've noticed a lot of people saying stuff like "I really wanted Wentz before the draft ... "

I didn't really keep track of who wanted who, but I'll admit that I adamantly did not want him. Didn't want Goff either. I was happy with the assets we got for the #2 pick (didn't mind the Coleman pick, hated the Ogbah pick).

I'll admit that I was wrong. Wentz looks unbelievable thus far.

There were quite a few guys who really liked Wentz.

Yes, you were very wrong

Speaking of wrong, what happened to (y)our old buddy Wreh-Wilson? He's already out of the league? Wouldn't mind taking a look at him as a FS. Poyer shouldn't be tough to beat for the spot.

And getting back to the Wentz back-patting, I'd like to remind everyone that even among Wentz supporters I was probably alone in wanting to trade up to 1 to go get him since he was evidently better than Goff

He's had some bad luck with injury, coaching changes (system changes), and also poor play when give the chance.

He worked out with NYJ and DET within the past week ... trying to get a chance before the end of the year.

Safety may not be a bad idea ... TEN tried him there the last two weeks of training camp, but he had an injured shoulder and hammy too.

I'd love for him to get a workout

Nope...I still don't see the words saying you nor anybody for that matter "can't talk about this".



Wrong again. I am not angry, far from it. Life is too short to get worked up about it. Especially as the guy doesn't even play for us. So, you can go on and choose whatever battle you want and continue stomping your feet about it.

Meanwhile, I will look at the team who suit up in orange and brown rather than green and silver.

I wanted Wentz in fact I wrote this when the Rams traded up to #1



But after we traded out of #2 I wasn't mad. I saw what they were trying to do and I'm willing to give them a chance. So far several draft picks have looked promising. Now they need to do it more than 3 games and continue to show improvement.

Also, they absolutely need to settle the QB situation, whether it is Cody Kessler (not holding my breath) studding out by the end of the year or we go and get one in the next years draft.

Wentz studding out really does hurt because if they Browns win a few games and a team like Chicago ends up with a worse record...well they need a QB also. Or if like last year a team with a QB ends up with a worse record and trades out with another team like LA did. Either way, if they don't find the franchise QB this offseason Wentz is going to look even worse for them.

All in all I understand why some fans are sharpening the pitchforks, but I'm not there yet. I want to see the plan go through and based on what I've seen of the young guys so far I'm optimistic that the ship will get righted. They just are taking a different path that some fans wanted them to go. Time will tell, but I'm hoping that in a few years we are a playoff team and we are all looking back at how the Browns built the start of a dynasty. I can only hope.

There's two sides to this. If wants turns into a great QB and we are still looking for one, we missed.
But we gotta lot of picks, an obvious plus at ground zero of total rebuild.

Let's give it time and not talk about this subject anymore. That's my demand.

Yup, most everyone was counting us and them as getting us the top 2 picks in the Draft..... now, we're 0-3 and staring at 0-5 before getting a shot at TEN, while they're 3-0 with a very realistic chance of getting to 5-0 before getting challenged in Week 6 by ATL.

I have thought that our starting Safeties would wind up being Campbell and Kindred ..... and I still think that will be the case.

I just hope that Campbell's injury isn't going to keep him out for an extended period of time.

I was leading the crowd on that one ... HOLY CRAP was I WRONG .... Sheesh ... That's like swinging at a 10' high fastball .... *L* ...

Oh we'll ... No one saw this coming ... The D is playing lights out and Wentz is doing one heck of a job ... Minni's and Phili's D's are gonna keep U in a lot of ball games ..

One thing no ones mentioning about Wentz ... He's doing it with a well below average group of recievers ...

Mathews is a two and Sproles is great coming out of the backfield ... That's it for the last 2 games ... Ertz is really good but he's missed the last two ...

Figures ... Still a long way to go but with every win our draft pick gets deeper and deeper in rnd 1 ... Didn't see that coming .. Hopefully they'll go on a losing streak ...

I was also thinking that Philly would be bad. They already have more wins than we'll end up with.

jc...

I did do some video study of the QBs in this draft, figuring the Browns would draft a QB. For the record, on the subject, here is what I said on January 13 and on Feb 17.

Also, it was before someone set me straight on the fact that NDS plays indoors...


Carson Wentz | 2016 NFL Draft | DawgTalkers.net


Re: Carson Wentz [Re: bonefish] #1065337 - 01/13/16 09:32 AM
mac Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 12/01/06
Posts: 7296
Loc: OHIO bone...I took the time to watch some video on Wentz earlier and again this morning.

He does remind me a bit of Rothlisberger when he was at Miami. Wentz looks like a better runner but his processing and release appear to be a bit slower than Ben's.

I like Wentz's size...I believe size is a quality that should be a consideration when drafting a QB.

I like the fact that Wentz played his ball in a similar enviroment/climate (to Cleveland).

I would expect him to move up draft boards.





Re: Carson Wentz [Re: bonefish] #1079815 - 02/17/16 04:11 PM
mac Offline

Hall of Famer

Registered: 12/01/06
Posts: 7296
Loc: OHIO


Bone...I saw Wentz as a possibility for the Browns early in this discussion. I think Wentz is a good fit for the Browns. Here is what I said about Wentz back on Jan 13.


Quote:
bone...I took the time to watch some video on Wentz earlier and again this morning.

He does remind me a bit of Rothlisberger when he was at Miami. Wentz looks like a better runner but his processing and release appear to be a bit slower than Ben's.

I like Wentz's size...I believe size is a quality that should be a consideration when drafting a QB.

I like the fact that Wentz played his ball in a similar enviroment/climate (to Cleveland).

I would expect him to move up draft boards.



I also believe that Dak Prescott should be considered as having Russell Wilson type skills and should not be overlooked.

link

j/c

We won't know for some time whether this was a good or bad trade.

I found this while searching for a summary of what we ended up with in the trade:

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/...on-wentz-trade/

Excerpt:

So here's what Cleveland came away with:

Browns Draft Haul from Eagles Trade

Player/Pick Round Overall Pick Position College
Corey Coleman 1 15 WR Baylor
Shon Coleman 3 76 OT Auburn
Cody Kessler 3 93 QB USC
Ricardo Louis 4 114 WR Auburn
Derrick Kindred 3 129 SS TCU
Spencer Drango 4 168 OL Baylor
2017 NFL Draft Pick 1 TBD TBD TBD
2017 NFL Draft Pick (from TEN) 2 TBD TBD TBD
2018 NFL Draft Pick 3 TBD TBD TBD

I'd STILL make that trade today.


Note: I did not fact-check that info.

I'd give up our next 3 entire drafts for a franchise QB.

We didn't have to give up anything. We could have drafted Wentz and still had a lot of picks left to upgrade the talent. And if we would not have let a lot of guys walk and cut others, we might actually have something to build on.

Yes, that's quite infuriating. Only the Browns, who spend years in the cellar but not low enough to get a franchise QB, would pass on one when they finally have the opportunity.

My new saying is "the Browns are going to Browns". That's just what they do.

I don't know if there's sarcasm/exaggeration here, but I'm quite confident I myself would pull the trigger on that. To get an established Qb, it's all almost downhill from there (unless your Indy lol) which gave up a first for Trent Richardson lol. Enough said.

So..the Browns drafted a RT in the third and he can't even beat out one of the worst rated OT's in the NFL? (according to PFT).

Not accurate, that's the haul from BOTH trades with the Eagles and Titans (actually 3 trades, there was a small one with the Raiders too).

Just "extra" from the Eagles they got OT Shaun Coleman and WR R.Louis so far and since they gave the Eagles a 4th 2017 you can wipe out Louis too (not that he has looked like much so far).

So, the trade so far looks like this:

Eagles got QB Wentz (+4th)

Browns got WR C.Coleman, OT S.Coleman (+R.Louis), 1st 2017 and 2nd 2018

We would never get Wentz for that package now. S.Coleman was the only "extra" benefit from the trade so far. If he busts (and it's not off to a good start), there will be a lot of pressure on the two future picks to at least make up some of this blunder and the way Wentz is playing we might be looking at a pick around 20+ in 2017 and maybe one outside the top 50 in 2018. In other words, don't hold your breath.

Which poses the question, will they use the draft picks necessary (either a #1 from a poor record, or a combination of picks to move up), to take a top QB in 2017, and if so, will he be equal to or greater than Wentz? And if they don't, because of whatever reason, will that spell the beginning of the end of their tenure?

Also, with all the picks they have, along with the cap space, will they be able to fill out the rest of the team with superior talent that helps move this team to next level football?

Where are we set, and where must we solidify with top talent (1st-3rd round picks & FAs)? Are we set at WR? TE? RB? DL? Do we need a top RT or is Coleman going to make the leap? Do we draft a top center? Add a corner? ILB? Safety?

2017 will be the time to put a QB in place and get the team filled out and start winning most of our ball games.

It's been reported, through "sources" and "inside info".. That Jeff Fisher didn't want to trade up for Goff. STL management wanted to make a "splash" while they were moving to LA..

Fisher wanted to continue to use more picks to build the team.

They are sitting at 2-1 with Goff in street clothes..

Just think what they could of done with say a Corey Coleman?

My favorite part of this hypothetical, is that if STL doesn't trade up and secure the "top" QB, does someone else?

Because if not, we probably would of taken Goff at 2.

I'm not Mourg, but the guys I have seen that could potentially be 1st round guys are....

Watson
Kizer
Kaaya of Miami.

Kaaya is who I like the best out of all three. He has good size, accurate with the football, and can make all the throws. He would be my target if I were drafting #1 overall, but I bet they want Watson...just a guess.

It's early, but I liked last year's guys more than the guys coming out this year.

I had a mid-first on Wentz and a late first/early second on Lynch and Goff.

I don't like any of this year's qbs being drafted early. But, I was wrong about Wentz, so I could very well be wrong again.

You had a 3rd round project grade on Wentz and you comped him to Weeden and Couch. The search function doesn't lie, so don't go Donald Trump on us please

https://www.dawgtalkers.net/ubbthreads.php/topics/1079716/1

Pretty much any post of yours there was anti-Wentz and you didn't like any QB in the 1st.

You don't need to thank me for the fact check.

That was a joke. There were several posts where I gave him a mid-first round grade. Please don't start w/your nonsense again.

Hell I would go as far to say even Philly didn't think he'd be playing this well..

Seeing as he was their 3rd stringer until Bridgewater went down..

So it's nonsense when I call you out for revisionist history on Wentz? Yes, you did magically label him a mid to late-1st in April (which seems odd, because, if a QB is worth a 15th overall, you also take him 2nd, right? It's the QB position after all), when you probably figured he'd go top 10 and hedged your bets , after MONTHS of trashing the guy.

Were those all jokes?

"I hope Johnny proves himself and we go in another direction. WE DESPERATELY NEED SOME IMPACT PLAYERS and I am tired of taking projects at the qb position.

We had a chance w/Teddy and Carr. We blew it. Let's not compound the problem."

"I don't think there is a qb in this draft even close to being worthy of a top 5 pick."

"I would too. In the 3rd round." (and when someone reminded you that Wentz won't fall that far, you replied, I guess still jokingly...)

"I'm not wishing, bro. I know it won't happen.

I just think that there is NOT one qb in this draft worthy of a top 5 pick.

Heck, I would NOT draft any of them in the top half of round one. This draft class reminds me of the EJ Manuel, Gino Smith draft class."

"Look, I want the Browns to get a qb, too............but, taking the wrong guy is devastating. I don't see one guy in this draft that I would draft in the first round."

and many more, it's all there...

any QBs you like so far this year, Django?

Great.......ruin the thread w/your personal crap.


I could go back and find your lies about watching Bosa, but I won't invest the time.

I start a thread and apologize to you and others about being wrong on Wentz and you still gotta go further. I made thousands of comments on those guys. But pick and choose. Call me a liar. I don't care.

Perhaps but they pulled the string on shipping out Bradford pretty quick so they must have seen something that gave them confidence that he could at least handle it.

J/C

For me it is not about how well Wentz (and yes it's outstanding) is playing after the fact, it's about having a pick in the top 3 and NOT taking a QB when you desperately needed one. Absolutely asinine by our genius FO. You have to take your chances even if it means taking a guy you're not super high on. Teams do it and fail all the time. Again, this is another case of our FO guys thinking they were out-smarting everyone and it backfired big time yet again.

Bosa? Give it to me? Yeah, I called him trash on tape and I stand by that. Oh and look, he has done nothing but run his mouth and not impact on the field.

So your point is?

I really want to hear how Bosa was "trash" on tape considering he was the best pro prospect on a national championship team that sent numerous guys to the NFL.

Enjoy

https://www.dawgtalkers.net/ubbthreads.php/topics/1107695/1

VERS - out of all the folks in your POSSE .. He's the least worth responding too .. So PLEASE .. DON'T ...

FOR ONCE .. Try letting it go ..

I haven't responded to him in 4 years .. There's a reason for that ..

He almost drew me out bringing politics over here .. BUT I LET IT GO FOR THE GOOD OF THIS THREAD ..

So please don't RUIN IT .. He can't RUIN it BY HIMSELF ..

I honestly don't know what you're referring to, but my best guesses are grammar and Brady Quinn.

And for the record. Vers has a loooong history of rewriting history, so I corrected him nicely in my first post on here, but there he was again, acting as if he liked Wentz going into the draft to streamline his current agenda. I guess I could have let it go, but doing it twice in one thread was kind of brash. He does this all the time and he shouldn't whine when he gets caught.

Let's talk football, remember?

http://www.espn.com/blog/san-diego-charg...ul-for-chargers

Bosa hasn't played a game yet due to injuries