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I would like to know your opinions on how the Cavs should improve their team. I don't believe we have any draft picks in 2007.
Ted Nugent said,"that Davy Crockett shooting at Santa Anna's Army was the right thing to do, he just wouldn't get the Hispanic vote today".
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I think the teams investments are already here with the exception of center. PF has youth with Varajeo and Gooden, Sasha is young at SG as well.
Really the ? is how well Gibson does to step into a PG role and lead our offense. As such I feel our team needs more improvement on the coaching end, run more set plays, get a good flow in. I think larry hughes is out of a position to play with Gibson maturing as he did.
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Thank you... another person who doesn't think we need to get rid of everybody but LeBron... 
yebat' Putin
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I think Center and SG we are set at. Id like to see another PG brought in for competition, and definately a more versitile big man. Andy is great at taking charges and plays with effort but both he and Gooden are inconsistent and both made some real boneheaded decisions in these play-offs. I think thiose decisions hurt us bad.
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one thing I hope coach learned was to quit starting an injured player when it hurts more
than helps
James was getting the ball to the open man who then didn't make the shot too many times.
too many missed 3's period
Groza76
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Since Pavlovic and Varejao are both at the end of their contracts, a decision on both needs to be made. That is the first thing.
Second, trade for Bibby. The easy trade would be Hughes for Bibby straight up - it works under the NBA cap rules. Though I don't think that will happen. Nonetheless, get Bibby.
Third, try to find a way to get a draft pick this year in round 1. There are a couple teams with 3 first rounders, and I know there's some rule where you can buy one, but don't know the details. Pick the best best shooter available or big guy available. (assumng we get Bibby)
Fourth, work on an offense other than walking the ball up the court and waiting until 10 seconds remains on the shot clock to think about shooting.
Last - thanks for your time in Cleveland Scot Pollard, Ira Newble, and Dwayne Jones, whoever the heck that is. Use the cash and whatever exceptions to pick up whatever we can to better the team.
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Last - thanks for your time in Cleveland Scot Pollard, Ira Newble, and Dwayne Jones, whoever the heck that is. Use the cash and whatever exceptions to pick up whatever we can to better the team.
First, it's Damon Jones...
Second, do you not plan on having a bench? Should we just have an 8 man roster? or do you plan on turning over the bench every year in search of the next diamond in the rough?
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I really don't think we should do much of anything except maybe get some more consistant shooters and maybe a shooting coach.
If the Cavs were to bury their wide open looks like most other teams do, that would of been a whole different series against the Spurs. We may not have won, but it would of at least gone 6-7 games.
As I mentioned before, there isn't a whole lot we CAN do. Hughes, Z, Snow, Newble, Jones and Marshall have us pinned under the salary cap with not a lot of wiggle room, and no reason to expect another team to trade us for them. We don't have any draft picks this year either. Which leaves us with a mid-level exception that we could use to pick up somebody that isn't going to help us THAT much.
With that being said, it might not be such a bad thing. Our team is young, and another year of playing with each other is only going to make them work better together. I'm not a proponent of blowing things up and starting over everytime you don't get a championship. That almost never works.
If we are using the Spurs as our model, we migth not be TOO far away, if our guys can work on thier games and get better and better each year. Dan Gibson might be a young Tony Parker, with his slashing to the rim and good shooting from the outside. If the rumors of him being a gym rat are true, he could workout to be the point guard we've always needed. Pavlovich could be a young Ginobli, if he can learn how to control himself, and look for the outlet passes. LeBron is like a young Duncan ... a superstar that the rest of the team feeds off of. He's not the defensive presence of Duncan, but he adds a little more to the offensive end. Andy might be our center (oberto? but with Ginobli's flopping skills) of the future. Hopefully he continues to improve as he's done each year. If he can work on his post moves and learn his roll in the offense (not to mention, work on his free throws) ... he could be just what we need for a center.
The rest are just roll players ... and that's what we really need to look for. Guys that can play Defense, but hit a shot when they're wide open. Guys in the Ron Harper/Robert Horry mould might be hard to get, but that's the type of player we really need.
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Last - thanks for your time in Cleveland Scot Pollard, Ira Newble, and Dwayne Jones, whoever the heck that is. Use the cash and whatever exceptions to pick up whatever we can to better the team.
First, it's Damon Jones...
Second, do you not plan on having a bench? Should we just have an 8 man roster? or do you plan on turning over the bench every year in search of the next diamond in the rough?
Third ... you can't do that in the NBA. You cut a guy, and his contract still counts against your cap for the duration of the contract. There would be no extra "cash" to spend.
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First, it's Damon Jones...
Nope, DC - if you go to REALGM.com, they also have a Dwayne Jones on the roster, and I have no clue wwho that is. I like Damon Jones sticking around.
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Second, do you not plan on having a bench? Should we just have an 8 man roster? or do you plan on turning over the bench every year in search of the next diamond in the rough?
The guys I had listed all are now Free Agents (at least to realgm.com, again). We need to sign someone to replace them, sure, but as of the end of the 2007 playoffs, they are no longer members of the team. Thus, the "see ya later" guys.
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The guys I had listed all are now Free Agents. We need to sign someone to replace them, sure, but as of the end of the 2007 playoffs, they are no longer members of the team. Thus, the "see ya later" guys.
Well if that's the case then good. Just don't expect a lot of extra cap space in return, because those guys were likely making the minimum to begin with.
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Well if that's the case then good. Just don't expect a lot of extra cap space in return, because those guys were likely making the minimum to begin with.
Hmm... Hoopshype has Pavlovic with a qualifying offer available - not sure if that means he's a Cav next year or not. They also have Newble at 3.4 for next season so either Hoopshype or Realgm is wrong on him. As per the others:
Pollard was 2.2m this year
Dwayne Jones .6m
We need to find a way to sign Gibson to a longer term contract too - he's off contract after the 07/08 season.
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Hughes, Z, Snow, Newble, Jones and Marshall have us pinned under the salary cap with not a lot of wiggle room, and no reason to expect another team to trade us for them.
What are the chances that we could get some of these guys to restructure or even take a paycut? Which might make them either affordable or tradeable?
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Well, Pollard is on our team simply because Miami is in the East...if we send him off, we'll most likely bring in someone not much different with one job - to foul Shaq in the playoffs.  I think there's a chance that we have to decide between Andy or Pavs (unless they both love it here enough not to get paid). I'd be hard pressed to make a decision there, but I might take Pavlovic. Jones and Marshall...makes me throw up in my mouth a little...how much longer are we stuck with the '1-5 and 6 greatest shooters in the universe'?
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I dont think anyone is taking a pay cut or restructuring. Only one I could see willing to do that would be Z or Snow, just because they seem like stand up guys, but I really think the chances are slim on that.
Also, I though we still had Newble under contract for another year. I think he is making 4-5 million, I remember when Paxon made that deal, I was just shaking my head.
Eat it Phil...
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What are the chances that we could get some of these guys to restructure or even take a paycut? Which might make them either affordable or tradeable?
Maybe if we pull the old Carlos Boozer gag on them ... tell them we want to restructure and if they mutually opt-out of their contract we'll "reward" them. 
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Do not get rid of Dwayne Jones. I guess not every Cavs fan knows who he is, since he saw limited time, but he may have Ben Wallace-esque potential. Last year, he led the NBDL in rebounding and offensive rebounds per game, to go along with being second in blocks. He was the player we got for Luke Jackson. He'll never lead the league in scoring, but at the very least he could easily replace Scot Pollard.
I really enjoy the potential of Shannon Brown as well. He has outstanding running ability, a great slasher and a decent shot. I honestly think he could step into a much bigger role next season. Brown and Gibson could, at the very least, be a serviceable second unit next year.
I REALLY do not want to see Mike Bibby here next year. People have name recognition on him, but his play has slipped. Its not just that his shooting percentage and APG are down, but rather that he makes Damon Jones look like an All-NBA defender. He cannot defend the pick-and-roll at all from what I've seen. I really, really do not want to see us give up a Varejao or Gooden to get a subpar defensive PG who has had his offensive game slip in the past few years.
I wouldn't mind seeing the team try and sign Mo Williams to fill the PG role next season. He won't be overly expensive. On the other side, if Williams won't sign for the MLE, I'd look at Steve Blake or Earl Boykins (less so, seeing as his defensive shortcomings as well).
I fully expect the Cavaliers to buy a late first-round pick from either Phoenix or Philly. Phoenix doesn't have the roster space for two guaranteed picks, IMO. I'd expect them to draft a young PF/C to try and groom for a role at some point in the future.
I don't want to see a trade of any of our post players (outside maybe Marshall). I'd love to add a low-post defensive presence, but I'd rather try and develop Jones than have to overpay for an overaged, mediocre player to fill a role.
[color:"green"] "World domination has encountered a momentary setback. Please talk amongst yourselves." Get Fuzzy[/color]
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Well it depends on which way the front office wants go. Because the Cavs play in the East and we are already Eastern Conference Champion contenders they may just decide to add a player or two, possibly a consistant outside shooter and maybe a PG to team with Boobie, to win a NBA championship. Or they could decide they want to try an build a dynasty around LeBron in which case look for Z, Damon Jones, Marshall, Snow, and Hughes to be traded , if possible, for young quality players and draft picks.
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... in which case look for Z, Damon Jones, Marshall, Snow, and Hughes to be traded , if possible, for young quality players and draft picks.
One problem ... who's going to give up young quality players and draft picks for old, over-paid, under-productive vets?
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Thats why i said "if possible". You might find a team thats thinks its only a player or 2 away from being a contender that will be willing to give up a young guy who can be developed or a draft pick.
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Thanks for the info on Dwayne Jones. Based on what you said, what the heck - if he can be a Pollard or more at less than 1/2 the cost, I'm for it.
I get to see Bibby out here on occasion, and he's an upgrade over Snow for sure (maybe not on D), and Hughes. To tell you the truth, I'd love to see the Cavs pick up Sergio Rodriguez from the Blazers somehow. He didn't play a whole heck of a lot, but he was fun to watch. hes a good ball handler, great passer, and quick as heck. That being said, he needs to work on D a bit and he's young. With Dickau and Jack they may have room t get rid of one, especially if they somehow end up with Conley.
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You might find a team thats thinks its only a player or 2 away from being a contender
The CAVS are a player or 2 away from being a contender ... if we don't want those guys, who else will?
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You might find a team thats thinks its only a player or 2 away from being a contender
The CAVS are a player or 2 away from being a contender ... if we don't want those guys, who else will?
Apparently you didn't read what i wrote Excl. I said it depended on which way the Cavs front office wants to go, wether they want to be satisfied with just contending in the East and possibly winning a Championship or if they want to be like the Spurs and the old Celtics and Lakers and be a dynasty built around LeBron.
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I REALLY do not want to see Mike Bibby here next year. People have name recognition on him, but his play has slipped. Its not just that his shooting percentage and APG are down, but rather that he makes Damon Jones look like an All-NBA defender. He cannot defend the pick-and-roll at all from what I've seen. I really, really do not want to see us give up a Varejao or Gooden to get a subpar defensive PG who has had his offensive game slip in the past few years.
i was trying to tell people that at the deadline, i really dont want to invest in a guy like that.
Eat it Phil...
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To tell you the truth, I'd love to see the Cavs pick up Sergio Rodriguez from the Blazers somehow.
I really wanted the Cavs to take him last season. He won't be ready this year even, for major minutes anyway, but I think in 2-3 years he has the potential to be an All-Star guard. Some of the tapes of his European League play were amazing to watch. I'd love to be able to get him. However, the current rumor is Jack being the odd man out, at least right now.
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I don't think you understand what I'm saying ... NOBODY is going to want to give up anything of value for those guys. There isn't a team out there that's an "Eric Snow" or a "Donyell Marshall" away from winning the championship. Who's going to give up young talent or a draft pick to take on a bloated contract of a guy that's going to give you 15 minutes or less a game?
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What do you mean Nobody? The Cavs did. I did say "if possible", also it may not be equal value talent wise and it may only be 2nd rd draft picks but if the Front Office feels the need to start over to be perennial contenders it may happen.
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There isn't a team out there that's an "Eric Snow" or a "Donyell Marshall" away from winning the championship.
You took the words right out of my mouth...errr...keyboard. 
**Insert clever signature here attributed to some historical figure that sounds interesting but has been taken completely out of context.
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Well, I looked at the ESPN Trade generator ... according to this, Ira Newble is off the books now.  (Guys with 1 year remaining are now free agents) Player - Salary - Years Remaining Shannon Brown $971,280 2 Daniel Gibson $412,718 2 Drew Gooden (BYC) $6,645,402 3 Larry Hughes $13,363,012 4 Zydrunas Ilgauskas $9,442,697 4 LeBron James (PPP) $5,828,089 4 Damon Jones $3,884,678 3 Dwayne Jones (TR) $664,209 1 Donyell Marshall $5,633,037 3 Ira Newble (TR) $3,196,050 1 Sasha Pavlovic (TR) $1,962,206 1 Scot Pollard (TR) $2,200,000 1 Eric Snow $6,093,750 3 Anderson Varejao (TR) $945,600 1 David Wesley $1,750,000 2
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But the big ouches:
Larry Hughes $13,363,012 4
Zydrunas Ilgauskas $9,442,697 4
Damon Jones $3,884,678 3
Donyell Marshall $5,633,037 3
Eric Snow $6,093,750 3
Those are pretty untradable.
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Real GM has theirs updated and fits with what I've more often heard. Varejao, Pavlovic, Pollard, and Dw. Jones are all free agents. The only deals that come off the books after next season are Newble, Wesley (team buy-out this offseason), and Gibson.
The Cavs do still hold the rights to Ejike Ugboaja, their last pick last year, as well. Its tough to find stats for him on anything past last year's Commonwealth Games, but there were some who liked his projectability in 3 years or so.
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Quote:
But the big ouches:
Larry Hughes $13,363,012 4
Zydrunas Ilgauskas $9,442,697 4
Damon Jones $3,884,678 3
Donyell Marshall $5,633,037 3
Eric Snow $6,093,750 3
Those are pretty untradable.
pretty much
but when these guys are in the final year of their contract, they are all tradeable...
the only real value is damon jones, who might fit in an umptempo offense where defense isn't stressed so much...
the only contract that really hurts is larry hughes...
but hey, the spurs won with michael finley making 20m, which finley hasn't been much more productive than hughes...
the only thing is that it makes it tougher to take on a big contract for a guy like a kidd or a bibby...
it'll be nice in a few years when z and hughes are off the books... i welcome them to re-sign, but the contract is going to be much small... and in z's case, he could become just a bench guy...
but we'll be able to bring in a good player, who knows, maybe a guy like a dwight howard doesn't like it in orlando... maybe deron williams will verbally agree to resign with the jazz and bolt for cleveland 
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PG Daniel Gibson
SG Sasha Pavlovic
SF Lebron James
PF Zack Randolph
C Ilgaushas
Bench
Larry Hughes
Anderson Varejeo or Drew Gooden
Grant Hill (Mid level) 1 year deal
Shannon Brown
Eric Snow
Donyell Marshall
Dwayne Jones
Nick Fazekas (bought 21st pick from the Sixers)
Scott Pollard
Transactions
Trade Gooden or Varejao(sign and trade), Damon Jones, and Ira Newble(contract expires) for Zack Randolph.
Buy out David Wesley.
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but hey, the spurs won with michael finley making 20m, which finley hasn't been much more productive than hughes...
'
Arent the Mavs paying most of the contract?
I guess if they are you could say the Mavs are still winning despite paying that contract also.
Eat it Phil...
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Nobody is paying Finley that much. The Mavs used their amnesty cut on him and he signed a reasonable deal with the Spurs. He made that money, but that is not his salary for this season.
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I really don't want Zach Randolph. LBJ is still young enough that I'd like to keep the Randolph's, Darius Miles', and Ricky Davis' of the league away from him, because I'm not sure that he, as the team leader, can control a locker room with a personality like that.
Also, as a note, I expect David Wesley to be traded, not bought out by the Cavs. You have to deal a player with cash considerations for a pick. Wesley has a low buyout, so you'd see something like Wesley and cash considerations for the #27 pick in the draft.
Also, you still didn't address the PG position and you would have to have the highest paid bench in the league, by far, with Hughes, Snow, Gooden, Marshall, and Grant Hill.
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Nobody is paying Finley that much. The Mavs used their amnesty cut on him and he signed a reasonable deal with the Spurs. He made that money, but that is not his salary for this season.
Im pretty sure the Mavs are paying most of that contract, I know he was cut via the amnesty rule, but they still have to pay the majority of the contract, just not sure how much of it counts against the cap.
Eat it Phil...
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Also, as a note, I expect David Wesley to be traded, not bought out by the Cavs. You have to deal a player with cash considerations for a pick. Wesley has a low buyout, so you'd see something like Wesley and cash considerations for the #27 pick in the draft.
This may cheer some of you up........
Wesley may retire
Former Rockets guard David Wesley, who signed with the Cavaliers as a free agent last summer, has been inactive through the postseason and said he is almost certain to retire.
Wesley said he will consider coaching and is aware that there might be openings for a short time in Houston, one of the cities in which he would like to live.
With the Cavaliers in the Finals, however, Wesley was not ready to make a move in that direction.
"It's always a possibility," Wesley said of retiring. "I'm not playing. Really, what would they want me back for?
"I am (considering coaching). My kids are at that age (when) they want me home. I haven't had time to think about that next step. I'll wait until this is all over and make that next decision."
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where do we go from here?
for one, lebron needs rest, from the midway point of the regular season on, he played with a bad toe, i really hope he doesn't play overseas, but i think that is just wishful thinking...
the front office needs to do their part and bring in whatever player(s) they can...
we still have a second round pick in the draft, and i'd love to see us grab another guy who can produce, like gibson did for us...
the team overall needs rest, because their offseason is going to be considerably shorter than they anticipated... if you really think about it, october is just around the corner, and that's when things start getting into full swing for the start of the season in november...
i think this team needs to start from day one on a mission... i'd like to see them shoot for 60 wins and homecourt over the entire east...
and after the rest, these guys need to get in the gym and start working on shooting, especially shots where they are wide open, it seems like we had a better chance to knock down shots when they are contested, which should never be the case, you have to knock down wide open shots, you have to make the other team pay for not being good on defense...
maybe they hire a good shooting coach? and someone to help with free throws (mark price, anyone?)
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Legend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,248 |
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we still have a second round pick in the draft, and i'd love to see us grab another guy who can produce, like gibson did for us...
Are you sure about this? I've heard people say that we have no picks this year, and the trade generator I played with the other day also confirmed this.
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and after the rest, these guys need to get in the gym and start working on shooting, especially shots where they are wide open, it seems like we had a better chance to knock down shots when they are contested, which should never be the case, you have to knock down wide open shots, you have to make the other team pay for not being good on defense...
I've been saying this all year. You watch just about any other team, and if a guy gets a wide open look, he hits it. The Cavs don't. If we started hitting our wide open looks consistantly, we would be a force ... everyone collapses on Lebron which means someone is always wide open.
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maybe they hire a good shooting coach? and someone to help with free throws (mark price, anyone?)
I heard a rumor that they were bringing in Mark Price to help with coach, but it wasn't going to be until this next season. I don't know why there was a delay in bring him in (contract obligations maybe!?) But I heard we was going to help out. Don't know how substantiated that rumor is though.
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DawgTalkers.net
Forums DawgTalk Tailgate Forum Where do we go from here?
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