Well, this Thread may be the the last one before the actual election depending on how fast it fills up, some of these threads only last a week but we are closing in on election day. This could be the Final Countdown!
I will say that I agree with Mr. Trump about the Vetting of refugees from areas we are at war with.
When ISIS overran Iraq and pushed into Syria they took over all the Post Offices and Banks in those areas. They got their hands on all the latest technology to produce Passports and vital documents. We can not trust the paperwork produced by those wanting to travel to America as being legit and this makes vetting extremely difficult.
Let's not pretend he isn't trying to ban them. He only swapped out his lingo cause he was getting roasted for saying it.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
We have another debate coming this month and 28 more days until the election, no way in hell is this the last thread on the subject...
As for the debate last night, honestly, I'm sickened by both candidates.
Both, IMHO, are unfit to be president. They both lie like crazy (see the Times article about fact checking on statements they made last night)
Essentially, they are counting on us not to do that fact checking.
The problem is, the more I check facts, the more disgusted I get with both of them.
I'm going to be 65 years old in Feb. And I gotta tell you, these two are the WORST candidates I've EVER seen running for president since the time I began paying attention to such things (about the time of Carter/Ford)
The only honest person to run for president this year was Bernie Sanders and let's face it, his plan wouldn't have worked for America. But he was honest and direct and never backed off a question.
Too bad really.. Not sure I can ever forgive Hillary for her campaigns actions in whipping him.
And Trump, don't even get me started on that lunatic.
#GMSTRONG
“Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts.” Daniel Patrick Moynahan
"Alternative facts hurt us all. Think before you blindly believe." Damanshot
Donald Trump was simply outstanding last night. I came away thinking "that is the president" and it wasn't even close. Now, the voting next month may well turn out differently but that's how I feel. I actually think he was so good that I no longer feel the need to post in these threads (irony noted) because it seems like there's not much more I can add.
I just watched the debate on replay. Trump won bigly. This one wasn’t close. And keep in mind that I called Clinton the winner of the first debate, and I now endorse Gary Johnson, primarily to avoid being called an alleged enabler of alleged sex abusers and their alleged enablers. That basket of deplorables includes both Bill and Hillary Clinton (the alleged doer and the alleged cleaner-upper) plus Trump and his alleged misdeeds.
Some quick reactions…
1. When the Access Hollywood tape came up, Trump dismissed it as locker room banter that he regrets. You expected that part. The persuasion move was that he quickly contrasted that “small” issue with images of ISIS beheadings, and cage-drownings. It was a high ground maneuver, a powerful visual anchor (like the Rosie O’Donnell move from his first primary debate), and a contrast play. In this framing, Trump cares about saving your life while Clinton cares about your choice of words. I realize the issue is Trump’s alleged deeds, not his words. But in terms of debate persuasion, Trump nailed it hard.
2. Clinton’s body language was defensive. Trump is physically larger and prowled the stage. He won the optics. It only got worse when a fly landed on Clinton’s face mid-answer. Both candidates looked perfect in terms of wardrobe and hair, given what they have to work with.
3. Trump threw in enough random details about Syria to persuade viewers that he knows more than they thought he knew. And he did a great job selling the idea that he knows more than the generals (as ridiculous as that sounds), at least in terms of not announcing where we plan to attack. I agree with the moderator who said there might be good reasons for announcing attacks – such as giving time for civilians to leave – but it wasn’t quite a counter-argument. Trump succeeded in looking informed on Syria, and at the same time reinforced the “can’t keep a secret” theme for Clinton.
4. Trump’s pre-debate show with Bill’s alleged victims dismantled Clinton’s pro-woman high ground before the debate even started. I didn’t see the pre-debate show, but I assume it was impactful. It had to be. Clinton looked shaken from the start.
5. The best quotable moments from the debate are pro-Trump. His comment about putting Clinton in jail has that marvelous visual persuasion quality about it, and it was the laugh of the night, which means it will be repeated endlessly. He also looked like he meant it.
Clinton’s Abe Lincoln defense for two-faced politicking failed as hard as anything can fail. Mrs. Clinton, I knew Abe Lincoln, and you’re no Abe Lincoln. You know that was in your head. Or it will be.
6. Most of the rest was policy stuff that no one understands or cares about. We don’t know how to fix Obamacare or what to do with TPP. But by acting competent on these and other policy issues, Trump gains more than Clinton in persuasion.
7. Trump attacked Clinton on emails, and did a good job. His base needed that.
8. Clinton had to defend her “deplorables” comment. She said she regretted it. Regret isn’t what the public wanted to hear. That’s about her. They wanted to hear that she doesn’t think that way. She failed to address the emotional part of that topic, and that’s a persuasion fail.
9. Trump defended his “extreme” vetting fairly well, but he did miss a huge opportunity for reframing. Trump mentioned the need for Muslims to help the country by informing on known terrorists in their ranks. He could have gone a step farther and said that he takes responsibility for some Islamophobia by his tough talk, but the solution to Islamaphobia is not what Trump says or does going forward. The solution is for the community itself to self-police the bad elements in its ranks. You can think that is unfair – because it is – but it might be the only solution in the long run.
—
I talked to a Swiss local yesterday about American politics. He says everyone in Switzerland is following the race closely. He favors Trump because he thinks Trump would be better for the global economy. I asked if anyone he knows in Switzerland is worried about Trump’s “temperament” and having his finger on the nukes. The Swiss man literally laughed. I had trouble explaining why that was even a topic in the United States. Apparently their news sources filter out some of that stuff. He wasn’t worried and didn’t know anyone who is. (But this is a data point of one. Don’t assume too much.)
I also asked the Swiss man what kind of problems they have in Switzerland. He laughed again. The answer is “none.” Literally.
Good economy.
Plenty of jobs.
No racial strife.
Low crime rate.
Highest standard of living.
No real pollution.
No litter.
No homeless that I could see.
He also told me that it is illegal to build a mosque in Switzerland because they don’t want to change their national character, which is 95% Christian he estimated. He said (and I did not fact-check) that the Swiss allow no immigration at all unless the person has special skills or marries a citizen.
And the gun ownership in Switzerland is 100% for adult males. That’s their militia. Yet crime is low.
Make of that what you will. It’s simplistic to think that a total ban on immigration plus universal male gun-ownership helps Switzerland have no real problems. But you can’t rule it out, either.
Trump is trying to make America a bit more like Switzerland. Clinton is trying to make America less like Switzerland. Spend a day in Switzerland and tell me who has the better plan. This country is amazing.
Didn't think I could read anything dumber than "Trump won the debate" until, "Trump is trying to make America a bit more like Switzerland. Clinton is trying to make America less like Switzerland. Spend a day in Switzerland and tell me who has the better plan. This country is amazing."
LOL
Thanks for the read. It was a good joke this morning.
Imagine being part of such a horrible campaign, one that is so bad and so unprepared that saying you would "jail" your political opponent is an actual win.
Last night debate proved to me that I have zero to worry about. Trump won't be getting into the White House.
He won't get the women vote
He won't get the minority vote.
He won't get the millennial vote.
He won't get the educated vote, or whatever demographic that is.
So he better PRAY that every white male in America votes for him. That's his only shot.
Good luck with that. you can hope, I suppose, but don't be surprised, because you already know the outcome.
My only concern is that Kaine better comb his damn hair on Inauguration Day.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Didn't think I could read anything dumber than "Trump won the debate" until, "Trump is trying to make America a bit more like Switzerland. Clinton is trying to make America less like Switzerland. Spend a day in Switzerland and tell me who has the better plan. This country is amazing."
LOL
Thanks for the read. It was a good joke this morning.
Did you watch the entire debate? I didn't think it was close. The beginning was stupid though-- lots of embarrassing mud-slinging and accusations. After that, Trump had more command and better answers.
Haus, I know I am biased against him but, I actually thought Trump was really poor, last night. Pacing, stalking, standing there frowning and looking down his nose smugly, insulting and throwing out many claims that have since been through the fact checker and come out false doesn't make a winner.
Last night debate proved to me that I have zero to worry about. Trump won't be getting into the White House.
He won't get the women vote
He won't get the minority vote.
He won't get the millennial vote.
He won't get the educated vote, or whatever demographic that is.
So he better PRAY that every white male in America votes for him. That's his only shot.
Good luck with that. you can hope, I suppose, but don't be surprised, because you already know the outcome.
My only concern is that Kaine better comb his damn hair on Inauguration Day.
The demographics are not favorable. We went over this last thread and I don't disagree. The one point that I added is this was always going to be the case with whichever Republican had won the nomination.
As far as the election, Trump was in a bad place 24 hours ago and needed something big to get back into the race. Now he's back in the race.
Last night debate proved to me that I have zero to worry about. Trump won't be getting into the White House.
He won't get the women vote
He won't get the minority vote.
He won't get the millennial vote.
He won't get the educated vote, or whatever demographic that is.
So he better PRAY that every white male in America votes for him. That's his only shot.
Good luck with that. you can hope, I suppose, but don't be surprised, because you already know the outcome.
My only concern is that Kaine better comb his damn hair on Inauguration Day.
The demographics are not favorable. We went over this last thread and I don't disagree. The one point that I added is this was always going to be the case with whichever Republican had won the nomination.
As far as the election, Trump was in a bad place 24 hours ago and needed something big to get back into the race. Now he's back in the race.
Again, not true.
Jen bush would've pulled a massive amount of Latino votes. He probably would've pulled a good number of the black vote.
The fact that he got on stage during the primaries and talking about learning Spanish because of his Latino wife?
That was an INSTANT hit with women around the country. And he also doesn't have the history of treating women like crap.
Sorry, but you conservatives got fooled with style over substance. Got caught with Trumps good ego over actual substance and truth that bush and Kasich was giving you guys.
Ask any liberal on this board: an average candidate would've put this election away against Hillary already. There wasn't another candidate on that stage that had the scandals coming down from the sky like Clinton.
Except one person: Trump. And that's who you chose.
/golfclap. Congrats conservatives and GOP, for once again shooting yourselves in the foot.
Last edited by Swish; 10/10/1609:03 AM.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Haus, I know I am biased against him but, I actually thought Trump was really poor, last night. Pacing, stalking, standing there frowning and looking down his nose smugly, insulting and throwing out many claims that have since been through the fact checker and come out false doesn't make a winner.
ahh well. agree to disagree.
On fact checkers: I am an analytical type guy and all for fact checking, but it's one of those things where the execution in how things are fact checked is just as important (actually, more important) than the idea behind fact checking.
CNN and NBC both attempted to “fact check” claims made during the second presidential debate about Hillary Clinton’s email scandal, particularly Donald Trump’s claims that she tried to “acid wash” 33,000 emails on her secret private server. And both networks did their best to cover up for Clinton — laughably so. CNN strained to defend Clinton by fact-checking Trump’s “acid wash” statement — and by fact-checking Clinton’s response.
CNN’s Tom Foreman acknowledged the main facts Trump had presented — that Clinton’s team deleted her emails after they were under subpoena. That ought to have led to a “true” rating. But Foreman added that the FBI had not decided to charge Clinton with a crime because there was not enough evidence of “collusion.” Therefore, he said, Trump’s claim was false.
Foreman continued by examining a statement by Clinton that “there is no evidence that anyone can point to, at all … that any classified materials ended up in the wrong hands.”
Yet Congress heard sworn testimony, several times, that people with no security clearance at all — from Clinton’s lawyers, to the technicians who managed her server, to Bill Clinton aide Justin Cooper — had access to her emails, including those with classified information.
That should have been enough to rate the statement “false.” But CNN rated it “true.”
NBC News actually fact-checked Trump’s statement as if he had actually suggested that she used chemical acid to delete the emails on her server. It rated the claim false because “Clinton’s team used an app called BleachBit; she did not use a corrosive chemical.”
Apparently the use of metaphor in political speech is unfamiliar at NBC News.
And NBC News’ fact-checker may also need to repeat high-school chemistry: bleach is a base, not an acid.
I watched and LISTENED to the entire debate. Yes, when you watch the debate, you may think that Donald Trump won the debate. He's loud, moves his hands aggressively, he's loud and is tall. Chimpanzees have been using these physical cues to pick leaders since the dawn of time. Read some Jane Goodall.
However, if you listened to debate you were probably scared crapless that he could be our president. He's already threatening to jail political opponents, accuse the moderators of ganging up on him, absolving Russia of the hacks, and just trying to unseat HRC with every move. Trying to put the accusers in the family box last night, was a prime scum move.
However, most political operators and campaigns consider a debate successful if any of those sound bites can be turned into an ad. Did Donald Trump do that tonight? Maybe for HRC, but probably not for Trump.
But, Trump said nothing of substance about HOW he was going to make "America Great Again". He just boasted over and over that he "had a plan". Is there really a plan and if so, why doesn't he share it at crucial times like a debate rather than getting involved in sleazy slugfest and entrance parades with people from Bill's past?
I watched and LISTENED to the entire debate. Yes, when you watch the debate, you may think that Donald Trump won the debate. He's loud, moves his hands aggressively, he's loud and is tall. Chimpanzees have been using these physical cues to pick leaders since the dawn of time. Read some Jane Goodall.
However, if you listened to debate you were probably scared crapless that he could be our president. He's already threatening to jail political opponents, accuse the moderators of ganging up on him, absolving Russia of the hacks, and just trying to unseat HRC with every move. Trying to put the accusers in the family box last night, was a prime scum move.
However, most political operators and campaigns consider a debate successful if any of those sound bites can be turned into an ad. Did Donald Trump do that tonight? Maybe for HRC, but probably not for Trump.
This is pretty humorous. I'm actually having a hard time addressing this seriously but I will anyway: I'm very familiar with the importance of body language. Much communication that happens between humans is nonverbal and I can think of a passage of one book I've read that can illustrate how to come off as friendly without saying a word: SOFTEN
Smile Open posture Forward lean Touch Eyes Nod
There's a lot more where that came from. Heck even the act of speaking conveys a lot of information that is missed in writing e.g. tonality and loudness. Suffice it to say that I listened to the debate and I listened closely.
As much as I'd love to take credit for that, it's all from Jane.
Quote:
“In many ways the performances of Donald Trump remind me of male chimpanzees and their dominance rituals,” Jane Goodall, the anthropologist, told me shortly before Trump won the GOP nomination. “In order to impress rivals, males seeking to rise in the dominance hierarchy perform spectacular displays: stamping, slapping the ground, dragging branches, throwing rocks. The more vigorous and imaginative the display, the faster the individual is likely to rise in the hierarchy, and the longer he is likely to maintain that position.”
In her book My Life With the Chimpanzees, Goodall told the story of “Mike,” a chimp who maintained his dominance by kicking a series of kerosene cans ahead of him as he moved down a road, creating confusion and noise that made his rivals flee and cower. She told me she would be thinking of Mike as she watched the upcoming debates."
However, if you listened to debate you were probably scared crapless that he could be our president.
You should be scared crapless if EITHER of them becomes President and one of them will. Either way :We the people" are about to get raped yet again. As of today I am leaning toward being raped by the one who MIGHT use some KY and who has the smallest genitals.
Last night debate proved to me that I have zero to worry about. Trump won't be getting into the White House.
He won't get the women vote
He won't get the minority vote.
He won't get the millennial vote.
He won't get the educated vote, or whatever demographic that is.
So he better PRAY that every white male in America votes for him. That's his only shot.
Good luck with that. you can hope, I suppose, but don't be surprised, because you already know the outcome.
My only concern is that Kaine better comb his damn hair on Inauguration Day.
Lets see I know more women who are voting for Trump than who are voting for Clinton.
I know more African Americans who are voting for Trump than who are voting for Clinton.
I know a lot of millennials who are voting for Trump and not for Clinton.
I know a lot of white older men who are voting for Clinton and not Trump.
Except who you know isn't the entire country. Good try though
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Anyway, what was up with Donald trump lurking behind Clinton last night?
Creepy
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
and who you know is not the entire country. I also know you can't trust a lot of polls that are posted either. Fact is we won't know for sure until election day
Last night I went to bed thinking Trump won the debate.
I awoke this morning and the wife asked me what happened last night.
I told her Trump killed it.
She then gave me the first clue that I was right when she said "I figured. There is nothing about it on the Weather Channel for a change."
Then I had my belief confirmed when I watched ABC Good Morn America and they so chopped up what I saw last night and took away Trumps thunder it was unrecognizable. They went so far as to show Hill as a victim because Trump was walking around during the debate!
If she was intimidated by that, just wait till Putin is breathing down her neck!
and who you know is not the entire country. I also know you can't trust a lot of polls that are posted either. Fact is we won't know for sure until election day
A lot of the polls are based off averages.
You already know he isn't getting any of the minority vote. I don't even know why you're pretending otherwise.
Denial. Hey, the first step to recovering is admitting you have a problem.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Trump wasn't intimidating, he looked like a rapist behind her.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
Putin...damn, I mean Trump's position on Syria is worrysome.
That's probabaly gonna be a huge problem with GOP leaders, and it's already a problem with Pence.
He offered no clarity or strategy except "eh, whatever"
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
One thing that I don't think gets enough play on here, and is being glossed over in discussion of Trump's body language and where he positioned himself on the debate stage, is just how terrible of a job that Hillary Clinton did as Secretary of State. The Middle East and Northern Africa is generally a much more hellish and chaotic part of the world than it was seven years ago.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
One thing that I don't think gets enough play on here, and is being glossed over in discussion of Trump's body language and where he positioned himself on the debate stage, is just how terrible of a job that Hillary Clinton did as Secretary of State. The Middle East and Northern Africa is generally a much more hellish and chaotic part of the world than it was seven years ago.
Libya was a train wreck. No doubt about that.
But if her and obama would've been allowed to go after Assad when they wanted to....we wouldn't be seeing Russian forces posted up there.
We already knew Assad was terrible. And no, there was no redeeming quatlity in him to allow him to stay in power and commit genocide.
Dealing with ISIS would be way easier than dealing with Assad. So now we gotta deal with him AND Russia.
One of the smartest things she said last night was arming the Kurds. They've been putting in massive work over there, and is quite possibly our biggest and most trustworthy ally in the region.
I wonder if trump even knows what a Kurd is.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
I know Hillary Clinton's track record as Secretary of State is a sore subject because it is so obvious that she did a bad job, and most liberals are put off by her war hawk-like tendencies.
“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”
